Should this "Karen" be locked up for falsely accusing an innocent Black?

[Lumpenproletariat]

In this incident a female at a hotel lobby accused a Black teenager of stealing her i-phone.

"And it turns out, the boy never stole her phone."



"It turns out" that he didn't steal it. But at the time, she didn't know that.

How many times a week (month, year) does someone lose a phone and then sees someone with a phone that looks like theirs and suspects theft?

Maybe not 1000 times, but this sort of thing must have happened a few times over the last 20 or 30 years. What probably happened?

The suspicious one accuses the suspected thief, and the latter takes out the phone and says, "No, this is mine. See, here's ---- "

Isn't there a way to prove that your phone is yours and is not stolen from someone else who had the same kind of phone?

In this scene, the accuser demands to see the phone, but the accused refuses, and insists that he's being unjustly accused because he's Black. Wasn't there a way he could prove that it was his phone?

Why can't a person falsely accused simply take a moment to prove that he's not a thief, if the proof is right there, plain for anyone to see? Is it always necessary for an accused person to refuse to prove his/her innocence? What's wrong with just proving you're innocent of the accusation, if it's so easy?

This "hysterical female" would've had to accept the fact that she was mistaken if she could have seen the phone and be shown that it was not hers. What's wrong with being suspicious, if you just lost something and you suddenly see someone with an identically-same item? Innocent people should feel proud to prove their innocence when they're accused.

This doesn't look like a case of racial discrimination against a Black. In other such cases, the accused one was reasonable and did what was necessary to prove their innocence.

How is this different from a suspected shoplifter who is asked to show what's in the bag, or to show their receipt? There are many incidents like this, and they are usually resolved by the accused one taking a moment to disprove the suspicions.

 

[Derec]

#BelieveWomen

 

[Mumbles]

...Or, rather than falsely accusing and physically attacking the black teen she could hgave used any one of several available methods to find or ID her lost phone that don't involve assault.

 

[zorq]

I don't appreciate your sarcastic hash tags, but I do agree with you Derec.

I saw that video on another site and I couldn't understand why so many people were insisting that the woman was over-reacting and/or racist. She MAY be racist, but it is just as likely that she is merely wrong or confused.

It IS quite easy to show someone that your phone is yours. It's a heck of a lot easier than getting into an argument. She told the kid to take off the phone case; I suspect that was to verify some identifying characteristic on the phone. Depending on the phone case, that can be usually be accomplished in less than 1 second. But this confrontation allegedly took more than 5 minutes. Why would you subject yourself to that instead of quickly and easily proving your innocence?

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I don't appreciate your sarcastic hash tags, but I do agree with you Derec.

#BelieveWomen is about fucked up shit that happens to women when they report rape/ sexual assaults or speak up about it. What exactly are you agreeing with?

Why would you subject yourself to that instead of quickly and easily proving your innocence?

Because you aren't accountable to people's random and unfounded accusations. In the best case scenario she was being disrespectful in making such a shitty assumption about the kid. Why should he budge an inch for her? I wouldn't. If someone wants to falsely accuse me of theft without a damn good reason... How shoulds't thou fuck thyself? Let me count the ways.

 

[bigfield]

I would tell her to fuck off, but this has never happened to me because no-one assumes I'm a criminal.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Why would you subject yourself to that instead of quickly and easily proving your innocence?

Because you aren't accountable to people's random and unfounded accusations. In the best case scenario she was being disrespectful in making such a shitty assumption about the kid. Why should he budge an inch for her? I wouldn't. If someone wants to falsely accuse me of theft without a damn good reason... How shoulds't thou fuck thyself? Let me count the ways.

Because we do not live in the controlled environment of a courthouse. We live in a world full of strangers. And while teen may feel safe standing on the ground of righteousness with this smallish woman, it would not be a practice I would advise my teenage black son to take going forward.

Yes the smart and obvious action to take would be to quickly defuse the situation by unlocking the phone or showing your accuser the apps in your phone. This is also the white thing to do. What many of this forums “why can’t they just act like normal white people in white world” members never seem to grasp is black people do not get to live in white world. Ever. They are born into and have to make their way in a world to some degree less fair and more dangerous.

But for teen’s immediate purpose, it is what it is. What are you teaching your son, dad? Would you recommend your son stand his ground if accused by tired, pissed-off, 250 pound construction worker? If so, the guilty party is you, dad.

 

[zorq]

I don't appreciate your sarcastic hash tags, but I do agree with you Derec.

#BelieveWomen is about fucked up shit that happens to women when they report rape/ sexual assaults or speak up about it. What exactly are you agreeing with?

I was under the mistaken impression that the first two posts in this thread were both from Derec, and not just the second one. Oops. The agreement was with what Lumpen posted. I already expressed my displeasure with what Derec posted.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

But for teen’s immediate purpose, it is what it is. What are you teaching your son, dad? Would you recommend your son stand his ground if accused by tired, pissed-off, 250 pound construction worker? If so, the guilty party is you, dad.

No, the guilty party is the hypothetical construction worker if he tries some stupid shit. If one decides it's prudent or preferable to show their phone, that is their own business. If one recognizes that's what is needed for survival, that's their business. And they may be right. But if in this thread we're pressing some level of guilt or culpability onto the kid or his dad for not showing her the phone, then I just can't see eye-to-eye with that.

Yes the smart and obvious action to take would be to quickly defuse the situation by unlocking the phone or showing your accuser the apps in your phone.
This is also the white thing to do. What many of this forums “why can’t they just act like normal white people in white world” members never seem to grasp is black people do not get to live in white world. Ever. They are born into and have to make their way in a world to some degree less fair and more dangerous.

I don't get what point you are making here? The white thing to do is to show her the phone? I have no opinion one what the kid should have done because that was his call to make. I would have ignored her and walked away, and if she had tried to grab at me, I'd have told her to fuck right off. I am fully aware my circumstances would be different than the teen's circumstances, but my point is not about telling him what he ought to have done. The point is there are not so hard to understand reasons for not showing her the phone.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I was under the mistaken impression that the first two posts in this thread were both from Derec, and not just the second one. Oops.

Oh, that does make much more sense, then.

 

[zorq]

I don't appreciate your sarcastic hash tags, but I do agree with you Derec.

#BelieveWomen is about fucked up shit that happens to women when they report rape/ sexual assaults or speak up about it. What exactly are you agreeing with?

Why would you subject yourself to that instead of quickly and easily proving your innocence?

Because you aren't accountable to people's random and unfounded accusations. In the best case scenario she was being disrespectful in making such a shitty assumption about the kid. Why should he budge an inch for her?

Because it is easy, fast, and SAFE. Taunting a deranged stranger by refusing to indulge their not completely unreasonable whims is a recipe for disaster.

I wouldn't. If someone wants to falsely accuse me of theft without a damn good reason... How shoulds't thou fuck thyself? Let me count the ways.

How are you so sure she didn't have a good reason. Just because the reason is eventually proven to be false doesn't mean that it wasn't a good reason in the moment. Mistakes and misunderstandings happen and WE don't have the full context for this encounter to judge what evidence she was basing her false accusation on. I think we should give a strangers the benefit of the doubt for a moment and take half a second to correct their misconceptions.

 

[Ford]

Oh look...it's another thread dedicated to answering the burning question of "the Negroes...why are they so vexing?"

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

How are you so sure she didn't have a good reason.

Not having your phone on your person is not an adequate reason to start suspecting people of theft. She didn't see or feel anyone take her phone (given that no one took her phone). There isn't currently a reason to believe the teenager's actions were easily able to be misread as pickpocketing. Perhaps she envisioned a scenario where she dropped it and he decided to steal it that way (and for some reason kept it out for her to see), but that scenario is not a 'damn good'* reason for suspicion seeing as it's also quite plausible he just had a similar phone or phone case. It seems very unlikely she had a good reason for suspicion let alone her level of certitude.

*quote marks in reference to my original, more emphatic phrasing.

edit: the full instagram version of the video:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CJR6LviHFkd/?utm_source=ig_embed

 

[zorq]

How are you so sure she didn't have a good reason.

Not having your phone on your person is not an adequate reason to start suspecting people of theft. She didn't see or feel anyone take her phone (given that no one took her phone). There isn't currently a reason to believe the teenager's actions were easily able to be misread as pickpocketing. Perhaps she envisioned a scenario where she dropped it and he decided to steal it that way (and for some reason kept it out for her to see), but that scenario is not a 'damn good'* reason for suspicion seeing as it's also quite plausible he just had a similar phone or phone case. It seems very unlikely she had a good reason for suspicion let alone her level of certitude.

*quote marks in reference to my original, more emphatic phrasing.

edit: the full instagram version of the video:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CJR6LviHFkd/?utm_source=ig_embed

I'm only seeing confirmation that WE don't know her reasons for suspicion. Given the boy and dad's utter refusal to comply with fast, easy, and safe measures of proving their innocence, I see no reason for her suspicion not to be even more elevated.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

I'm only seeing confirmation that WE don't know her reasons for suspicion.

I never claimed to know her reason for suspicion. I am talking about a scenario where someone doesn't have a damn good reason to accuse me because I believe that is a fair parallel to what we do know about this incident so far. Given what we know, there is ample reason to suspect that she did not have a damn good reason or even an ordinarily good reason.

Given the boy and dad's utter refusal to comply with fast, easy, and safe measures of proving their innocence, I see no reason for her suspicion not to be even more elevated.

Step 1: make bullshit accusation
Step 2: demand proof of innocence against your bullshit accusation
Step 3: when your accusee has a not-so-submissive attitude toward your bullshit accusation and isn't compliant with your demands, use that as further validation for your bullshit accusation
Step 4: actually physically go after them insisting they have your property despite having zero evidence

I mean, the logic is air tight.

 

[Swammerdami]

I can't believe many of the responses in this thread.

First of all, Karen wouldn't have been satisfied to examine the child's phone. She would have claimed he had a second phone hidden in another pocket. Second, if a deranged stranger approached me demanding I let her inspect my phone there's several reasons I'd be reluctant to comply.

Those who say it would be better to spend a few seconds obeying a strange request than to argue about it for 5 minutes may be unfamiliar with American culture. Do you think Karen would have complied with such a request? Especially if it came from a black? The victim's father was some rich elite, right? Had he been lower-class the blacks might have submitted meekly, and there'd be no video.

And, as someone points out in the video, if a black adult assaulted an innocent white youth, does anyone think there'd be no consequences? The black would be lucky to just get arrested, rather than tazed or shot.

Finally what's with the "Just say Yes'm and do what whitey tells you to do, boy"? Wake up, please.

 

[zorq]

I'm only seeing confirmation that WE don't know her reasons for suspicion.

I never claimed to know her reason for suspicion. I am talking about a scenario where someone doesn't have a damn good reason to accuse me because I believe that is a fair parallel to what we do know about this incident so far. Given what we know, there is ample reason to suspect that she did not have a damn good reason or even an ordinarily good reason.

Given the boy and dad's utter refusal to comply with fast, easy, and safe measures of proving their innocence, I see no reason for her suspicion not to be even more elevated.

Step 1: make bullshit accusation
Step 2: demand proof of innocence against your bullshit accusation
Step 3: when your accusee has a not-so-submissive attitude toward your bullshit accusation and isn't compliant with your demands, use that as further validation for your bullshit accusation
Step 4: actually physically go after them insisting they have your property despite having zero evidence

I mean, the logic is air tight.

You forgot Step 5: Profit!

It's a joke but, really where in this scenario is the profit? Do you think she was harrassing the dad and kid for fun? Did you think she was trying to steal the kid's phone with the help of the hotel clerk bystander? No. She didn't think her accusation was bullshit. Standing around and enduring 5 minutes of confrontation when you can diffuse the entire situation in mere moments is the bullshit.

Since we are just making things up now, let's consider my converse scenario so that we can ponder about which party was acting more unreasonably.

Step 1: Conceal easily accessible exculpatory evidence.
Step 2: Continue to conceal exculpatory evidence because accuser hasn't left you alone.
Step 3: Conceal the exculpatory evidence some more and insult your accuser because they are clearly nuts and have escalated to physical attacks.
Step 4: This nut job just started pointing a firearm at me and my child, but they'll have to pull my easily accessible exculpatory evidence from my cold dead hands before I let them have even a peek at it.

 

[ruby sparks]

One slightly surprising outcome is that apparently, she has not publicly apologised (yet). The Hotel has apologised profusely.

I do think, all things considered, that the preferred response would have been to straight away show her she was mistaken. I think we can even see the boy starting to do this and the father telling him not to. And I don't think it was unreasonable for the hotel manager to ask the boy to do it. It was the obvious and easy way to quickly clear the whole thing up.

That said, if she (as it seems she did) try to reach into the boy's pocket herself then she's in trouble.

As to whether she was racially-motivated, it's not clear. Unlike in the dog walking example being cited, I didn't hear anything about the boy being black being said.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

It's a joke but, really where in this scenario is the profit?

No. I believe she lost her phone, and phones being integral to many peoples's lives these days (and often containing sensitive info), she freaked out like many people would. What does that have to do with anything? (edit: I don't mean the initial joke. I mean why do I need to address some ulterior motive on her part? I don't assert there was one.)

Since we are just making things up now,

No, I'm not making things up. I just inserted step three so I could fit your observation into events.

let's consider my converse scenario so that we can ponder about which party was acting more unreasonably.

One party was minding their own.
One party made a false and unfounded accusation.

Done.