Socialism Is Always Doomed to Fail

[untermensche]

The capitalist turns all on it's head. All value is turned on it's head.

The capitalist takes all power from the worker except the little sliver of power to endure hardship and leave and try with another capitalist.

The human is reduced to having nothing but the power to leave.

And the capitalist uses this oppression as a selling point.

Look at all the freedom you have in capitalism.

You can endure hardship and leave one master for another, maybe better, master.

You are not forced to be the tool of any particular master. Just forced to be some master's tool.

And they even have the balls to call it "freedom" and grin.

 

[ZiprHead]

You're just proving what I said--you're incapable of seeing the value. The thing is, in your fantasyland the means of production simply exist, people know how they work, no investment or organizing is needed.

No one is saying that. Yes, investment is capitalism. Organizing, however is labor. Capitalists hire people to do the organizing. I'm pretty sure the CEO or major shareholders of Fiat Chrysler, when it comes time for model year changeover and the manufacturing/assembly process needs to be arranged would go "Whaaa???" if he needed to do that himself.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Yes, very predictable. In the utopia of arkirk and untermensche, you do NOT have the power to walk away. That is strictly forbidden. Very revealing.

 

[untermensche]

Yes, very predictable. In the utopia of arkirk and untermensche, you do NOT have the power to walk away. That is strictly forbidden. Very revealing.

My form of Anarchism seeks to extend democracy into the workplace.

It seeks to give people MORE than simply the power to endure hardship and move from one master to another.

It seeks to give people greater control of their lives.

It seeks to raise people above the level of a tool of some master.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

AND eliminate the right to walk away. Once you get your way, nobody is allowed to quit. It will be against the law.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Sorry, Loren, but according to untermensche, failing to provide his every need IS a form of oppressing him. He needs professional ass-wipers when he goes to the bathroom.

But they need to be democratically voted to be his ass-wipers, otherwise it is oppression.

Jason: Try to control your contempt. Contempt itself is an involuntary reaction. Untermensche has NEVER ASKED YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE TO WIPE HIS ASS.

You sure?

Attacking Untermensche is attacking a person with the best intentions.

I'm sure his desire to become a dictator is his best intentions. I don't agree with any sort of dictatorship, even well intentioned dictatorships. That makes me have bad intentions, right?

I find your remarks and Loren's often to be so insensitive to the human condition as to be downright frightening...not unlike the insensitivity of Trump or Pence or Dubbiya.

Or Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton or Obama...

Why did you leave those three out? Don't bother answering, I already know the answer. You are pretending that if you lump me with Republicans then I will pretend that I am lumped with Republicans. You do you pretend that just because you are willing to pretend that means I am also willing to pretend?

 

[untermensche]

AND eliminate the right to walk away. Once you get your way, nobody is allowed to quit. It will be against the law.

The pitiful right to suffer hardship and find another place to work still would exist.

But you would have a lot more power than that.

And you would not be reduced to the tool of another.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

AND eliminate the right to walk away. Once you get your way, nobody is allowed to quit. It will be against the law.

The pitiful right to suffer hardship and find another place to work still would exist.

Thank you m'lord for granting us that right. You might want to check with arkirk about the right to walk away, I'm seeing disagreement in the enforced conformity camp.

And you would not be reduced to the tool of another.

Nope, just a tool of "the majority". Instead of being an employee of one person you are the property of the majority.

Why do you think that between 1945 and 1989 the Eastern European nations had emigration laws and Western European nations had immigration laws?

 

[untermensche]

Thank you m'lord for granting us that right. You might want to check with arkirk about the right to walk away, I'm seeing disagreement in the enforced conformity camp.

And you would not be reduced to the tool of another.

Nope, just a tool of "the majority". Instead of being an employee of one person you are the property of the majority.

Why do you think that between 1945 and 1989 the Eastern European nations had emigration laws and Western European nations had immigration laws?

Sure.

Now you have a majority as your master. But a majority is not a person and does not act like a person.

But you are a voice in the midst of that majority and they cannot ignore you in some penthouse office or the executive board room.

That majority is working right next to you and experiencing what you are experiencing.

They are on YOUR side.

Not totally on the side of stock holders.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If the majority says that I have no rights, the majority is not on my side.



You say "now you have a majority as your master." I don't want any master, especially not you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Vietnam? Only after they sided with the communists.

The scumbags that defend what the US did in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos are the lowest form of humanity.

There is no crime too great they will not defend it. No human outrage and misery too great they will not defend them.

They are Germans defending the mass killing of Jews.

"Once those Jews sided with Satan they sealed their fate."

The North Vietnamese killed more than we did.

- - - Updated - - -

You're just proving what I said--you're incapable of seeing the value. The thing is, in your fantasyland the means of production simply exist, people know how they work, no investment or organizing is needed.

No one is saying that. Yes, investment is capitalism. Organizing, however is labor. Capitalists hire people to do the organizing. I'm pretty sure the CEO or major shareholders of Fiat Chrysler, when it comes time for model year changeover and the manufacturing/assembly process needs to be arranged would go "Whaaa???" if he needed to do that himself.

And hiring the right people isn't organizing?

Besides, that only happens when the companies get large.

 

[untermensche]

At work the majority is working and wants to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It does not want the company to move to China.

It wants working conditions to be as good as possible.

It wants pay and benefits to be as good as possible.

The horror!

Under the current system the people at the top want to pay everybody else as little as possible and make working conditions as cheap as possible. Not to have money for something else the company might need. For themselves.

Those that condemn the majority are blind to what the dictators are doing to the majority.

- - - Updated - - -

The North Vietnamese killed more than we did.

The scumbags that lie and say things like the North Vietnamese killed more than the US are the lowest form of life.

There is no horror they will not support 100%.

They will gladly gas Jews and blame the Jews for causing it.

As low as a human can go.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why do you think that between 1945 and 1989 the Eastern European nations had emigration laws and Western European nations had immigration laws?

Yup. You can learn a lot about a country by it's border controls. I've been behind the Iron Curtain--there and Burma were the only places we encountered any appreciable exit checking. Everywhere else it was hand the official your passport, a quick look (checking that you didn't overstay), stamp, hand it back and let you out. The US doesn't even have exit controls. (Yes, you have to show your passport to fly--that's not exit controls, that's the airline not wanting to get fined for bringing an inadmissible passenger to the destination country.)

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

At work the majority is working and wants to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It does not want the company to move to China.

It wants working conditions to be as good as possible.

It wants pay and benefits to be as good as possible.

Those are some interesting baseless assumptions. Let me try to.

At work the push of supply and demand gets people to work and want to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It wants the company to actually produce something.

The push-and-pull of supply-and-demand forces conditions to be as good as possible and for as little as possible.

The push-and-pull of supply-and-demand forces pay and benefits to be as high as employees can successfully bid them.

The horror.



Quick quiz Unter. Which of those balls were oppressing the homeless ball? Was in an-cap ball (yellow and black), agoristball (grey and black), an-com ball (black with a bandana), social democracy ball (red with flower) or democratic party ball?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

At work the majority is working and wants to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It does not want the company to move to China.

It wants working conditions to be as good as possible.

It wants pay and benefits to be as good as possible.

The horror!

Under the current system the people at the top want to pay everybody else as little as possible and make working conditions as cheap as possible. Not to have money for something else the company might need. For themselves.

And with opposing forces you get a balance.

The North Vietnamese killed more than we did.

The scumbags that lie and say things like the North Vietnamese killed more than the US are the lowest form of life.

There is no horror they will not support 100%.

They will gladly gas Jews and blame the Jews for causing it.

As low as a human can go.

Saying I'm a scumbag doesn't change the reality. You have to kill a lot of people to impose the sort of regime that North Vietnam did.

 

[untermensche]

And with opposing forces you get a balance.

The opposing force to organized tyrants trying to turn people into their tools is organized labor.

As the unions have died so has any opposing force.

And the middle class has died with them.

The scumbags that lie and say things like the North Vietnamese killed more than the US are the lowest form of life.

There is no horror they will not support 100%.

They will gladly gas Jews and blame the Jews for causing it.

As low as a human can go.

Saying I'm a scumbag doesn't change the reality. You have to kill a lot of people to impose the sort of regime that North Vietnam did.

If the shoe fits.

What the US did in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos was a major crime against humanity. A holocaust.

Everywhere in the world this is understood except by some in the US.

 

[untermensche]

At work the majority is working and wants to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It does not want the company to move to China.

It wants working conditions to be as good as possible.

It wants pay and benefits to be as good as possible.

Those are some interesting baseless assumptions. Let me try to.

At work the push of supply and demand gets people to work and want to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It wants the company to actually produce something.

The push-and-pull of supply-and-demand forces conditions to be as good as possible and for as little as possible.

The push-and-pull of supply-and-demand forces pay and benefits to be as high as employees can successfully bid them.

The horror.

The push of supply and demand just provides jobs.

It is up to humans not to turn those jobs into a situation of master and slave.

If somebody only has the right to leave they are your slave if circumstance forces them to stay.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The opposing force to organized tyrants trying to turn people into their tools is organized labor.

As the unions have died so has any opposing force.

And the middle class has died with them.

Saying I'm a scumbag doesn't change the reality. You have to kill a lot of people to impose the sort of regime that North Vietnam did.

If the shoe fits.

What the US did in Vietnam and Cambodia and Laos was a major crime against humanity. A holocaust.

Everywhere in the world this is understood except by some in the US.

The difference being that capitalist countries generally commit "war crimes" by allying with one side in a civil war that they think will benefit the capitalist country. Socialists generally suspend civil rights for their own citizens, and then send to the gulag or outright murder those who rebel.

 

[untermensche]

The side the US sided with was the remnant of the French colony.

It had nothing to do with the Vietnamese.

 

[arkirk]

At work the majority is working and wants to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It does not want the company to move to China.

It wants working conditions to be as good as possible.

It wants pay and benefits to be as good as possible.

Those are some interesting baseless assumptions. Let me try to.

At work the push of supply and demand gets people to work and want to keep working. It wants the company to last as long as possible. It wants the company to actually produce something.

The push-and-pull of supply-and-demand forces conditions to be as good as possible and for as little as possible.

The push-and-pull of supply-and-demand forces pay and benefits to be as high as employees can successfully bid them.

The horror.

View attachment 15871

Quick quiz Unter. Which of those balls were oppressing the homeless ball? Was in an-cap ball (yellow and black), agoristball (grey and black), an-com ball (black with a bandana), social democracy ball (red with flower) or democratic party ball?

Another ridiculous and insulting cartoon from you. When are you going to argue your position from an adult prespective instead of just doing this shit?