Some questions about the future of Islam in Europe

[Angra Mainyu]

You're probably right, I didn't really respond to your OP. I should have posted on any of the other numerous threads on here going on and on about how Muslims are going to take over Europe and destroy our civilisation. My excuse it that these threads are all pretty much interchangeable rantings and ravings of obsessed bigots with an axe to grind. Most of them have never even been in Europe and simply don't know what they are talking about. If you are not one of them I apologise.

Having said that, I am not going to respond to your OP because I find the entire 'debate' ludicrous and the idea that anyone could put a sensible estimate on your particular questions so absurd that they don't warrant a response.

I think the entire *purpose* of this thread is sort of a meta-discussion. Angra has been debating about the beliefs other posters have, and whether or not they are being misrepresented, so I think he wants to ask the people directly.

Yes, sort of. Thanks. I know there is insufficient evidence about their beliefs so the charge would be unwarranted even if true in the case of some of them, and that some are being misrepresented. But I want to know what they actually believe. Apparently, this thread is not working for that. But on the other hand, it is providing good examples of gross misrepresentation of what others said, unwarranted attributions of intentions and beliefs, unwarranted accusations, demonization, etc. It's not what I was going for, though.

 

[J842P]

I think the entire *purpose* of this thread is sort of a meta-discussion. Angra has been debating about the beliefs other posters have, and whether or not they are being misrepresented, so I think he wants to ask the people directly.

Yes, sort of. Thanks. I know there is insufficient evidence about their beliefs so the charge would be unwarranted even if true in the case of some of them, and that some are being misrepresented. But I want to know what they actually believe. Apparently, this thread is not working for that. But on the other hand, it is providing good examples of gross misrepresentation of what others said, unwarranted attributions of intentions and beliefs, unwarranted accusations, demonization, etc. It's not what I was going for, though.

It has been very revealing, at least.

 

[TSwizzle]

What are the odds?

0. In the future (at some time), Islam will be the predominant religion and/or ideology in the UK.

Definitely.

1. In the future (at some time), Sunni Islam will be the predominant religion and/or ideology in the UK.

Don't know

2. In the future, Sunni Islam will be the predominant religion and/or ideology in at least some countries in Western Europe now predominantly Christian.

Don't know

3. In the future, gay sex or adultery will be criminalized in the UK, due to Islamic influence.

Very unlikely

4. In the future, blasphemy will be criminalized in the UK, due to Islamic influence.

To some degree, this is in effect already.

5. In the future, gay sex, adultery or blasphemy will be criminalized somewhere in Western Europe when they're not criminalized today, and due to Islamic influence.

Very unlikely

6. In the future, life in Western Europe will get overall worse than it is today, due to immigration from some countries where Islam is predominant, such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Syria.

Likely

7. In the future, life in Western Europe will get overall worse than it is today, due to immigration from some countries where Christianity is predominant, such as Ghana, Nigeria or Uganda.

Unlikely


8. Legal immigration of Muslims to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Likely

9. Illegal immigration of Muslims to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Likely

10. Legal immigration of Christians to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Unlikely
11. Illegal immigration of Christians to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Unlikely

12. Legal immigration is overall negative for European society.

Unlikely

13. Illegal immigration is overall negative for European society.

Likely

 

[laughing dog]

And yet another unwarranted, unjust leftist attack.

Your response is epistemically irrational and unwarranted which is typical of hysterics.

 

[PyramidHead]

Angra, you're an ok guy. You just need to take this internet forum stuff less seriously.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

What are the odds?

0. In the future (at some time), Islam will be the predominant religion and/or ideology in the UK.

Definitely.

1. In the future (at some time), Sunni Islam will be the predominant religion and/or ideology in the UK.

Don't know

2. In the future, Sunni Islam will be the predominant religion and/or ideology in at least some countries in Western Europe now predominantly Christian.

Don't know

3. In the future, gay sex or adultery will be criminalized in the UK, due to Islamic influence.

Very unlikely

4. In the future, blasphemy will be criminalized in the UK, due to Islamic influence.

To some degree, this is in effect already.

5. In the future, gay sex, adultery or blasphemy will be criminalized somewhere in Western Europe when they're not criminalized today, and due to Islamic influence.

Very unlikely

6. In the future, life in Western Europe will get overall worse than it is today, due to immigration from some countries where Islam is predominant, such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Syria.

Likely

7. In the future, life in Western Europe will get overall worse than it is today, due to immigration from some countries where Christianity is predominant, such as Ghana, Nigeria or Uganda.

Unlikely


8. Legal immigration of Muslims to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Likely

9. Illegal immigration of Muslims to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Likely

10. Legal immigration of Christians to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Unlikely
11. Illegal immigration of Christians to Europe is overall negative for European society.

Unlikely

12. Legal immigration is overall negative for European society.

Unlikely

13. Illegal immigration is overall negative for European society.

Likely

Thanks for answering.
I'd like to add just two brief follow-up questions:

1. Definitely

Is it because you think over 50% of the population will be Muslim (or something like that), or because it will be a minority, but larger than any other group due to decline of Christianity, etc.?

To some degree, this is in effect already.

In the UK? Do you have a link? Or are you talking about pressure in universities and the like?

 

[TSwizzle]

Thanks for answering.
I'd like to add just two brief follow-up questions:

1. In the future (at some time), Islam will be the predominant religion and/or ideology in the UK.
Definitely

Is it because you think over 50% of the population will be Muslim (or something like that), or because it will be a minority, but larger than any other group due to decline of Christianity, etc.?

Christianity in Europe is on the wane. In the UK congregations are being consolidated, churches disposed of, sometime sold to be converted into a pub, sometimes a mosque. But no, I don't think it will be down to the "muslim" population going above 50%.

4. In the future, blasphemy will be criminalized in the UK, due to Islamic influence.
To some degree, this is in effect already.
In the UK? Do you have a link? Or are you talking about pressure in universities and the like?

Well any criticism of teh islam is a potential "hate crime" in the UK these days. An errant tweet could get plod at your door.

 

[repoman]

In response to the very last two sentences of the previous post,

Imagine Piss Mohammed instead of Piss Christ.

And yes I understand the intention of Piss Christ was not to insult Jesus.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/08/piss-christ-charlie-hebdo_n_6433406.html

 

[whichphilosophy]

In response to the very last two sentences of the previous post,

Imagine Piss Mohammed instead of Piss Christ.

And yes I understand the intention of Piss Christ was not to insult Jesus.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/08/piss-christ-charlie-hebdo_n_6433406.html

We could say someone's taking the Piss. The reaction may be different in some cases.

 

[dismal]

The issue with piss christ was not that the government censored it, but that the government subsidized it.

 

[PyramidHead]

The issue with piss christ was not that the government censored it, but that the government subsidized it.

In the sense that it subsidizes art generally?