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Stephen Breyer to retire at the end of this court session.

Let the "our issue isn't about race" begin. Meanwhile, the GOP have announced the selection of female black attorney that'll handle all their questioning for the hearings.
 
Let the "our issue isn't about race" begin.
Ooh! Ooh! Me first! "She can't be on the Supreme Court because she protested against a Confederate flag whilst in college. She clearly doesn't care about the First Amendment!"

You just fucking know that's going to come up.

I'm a bit disappointed in Derec not yet bringing up the fact that her uncle is a thug who was convicted to life in prison, maybe he's not feeling well. He's generally better, quicker at this sort of thing.
 
Let the "our issue isn't about race" begin. Meanwhile, the GOP have announced the selection of female black attorney that'll handle all their questioning for the hearings.
She went to an Ivy League School.
If Biden's really dedicated to DiVeRsItY, shouldn't the nominee have gone the Historically Black College route? Come on, people! This is just more of the same!
 
Let the "our issue isn't about race" begin. Meanwhile, the GOP have announced the selection of female black attorney that'll handle all their questioning for the hearings.
She went to an Ivy League School.
If Biden's really dedicated to DiVeRsItY, shouldn't the nominee have gone the Historically Black College route? Come on, people! This is just more of the same!
That would be great. :) Next one, let's do that.
 
Let the "our issue isn't about race" begin. Meanwhile, the GOP have announced the selection of female black attorney that'll handle all their questioning for the hearings.
She went to an Ivy League School.
If Biden's really dedicated to DiVeRsItY, shouldn't the nominee have gone the Historically Black College route? Come on, people! This is just more of the same!

Yeah, I would like to see some more diversity in their schooling. Anywhere but Harvard or Yale, where 8 of the current ones went.
 
Let the "our issue isn't about race" begin. Meanwhile, the GOP have announced the selection of female black attorney that'll handle all their questioning for the hearings.
She went to an Ivy League School.
If Biden's really dedicated to DiVeRsItY, shouldn't the nominee have gone the Historically Black College route? Come on, people! This is just more of the same!

Yeah, I would like to see some more diversity in their schooling. Anywhere but Harvard or Yale, where 8 of the current ones went.
Yeah, but if Biden's candidate didnt go there, they'll say she wasn't good enough for those schools.
 
And the winner is the notorious KBJ.
So she went to Harvard. Does that mean she will recuse herself from the Harvard racial discrimination case, given that she was most likely a beneficiary of said discrimination?

I would also like to know how far left she is, compared to other judges on Biden's short list.
 
I'm a bit disappointed in Derec not yet bringing up the fact that her uncle is a thug who was convicted to life in prison, maybe he's not feeling well. He's generally better, quicker at this sort of thing.

Generally busy and there are a lot of threads I have been contributing to when I do have time to reply.

I did not know about her uncle. What did he do? That may be a concern if it leads to her making rulings that are too soft on crime.
 
She went to an Ivy League School.
If Biden's really dedicated to DiVeRsItY, shouldn't the nominee have gone the Historically Black College route? Come on, people! This is just more of the same!

More educational diversity would be interesting, as would professional diversity. For example, Leondra Kruger is on a state supreme court (California) and would bring a different perspective than the usual federal circuit crowd. Honestly, she might have been a better choice for Biden than KBJ.
Leondra Kruger: Who is she? Bio, facts, background and political views

Moot point now that Biden has made his selection, I know.

I am not a big fan of black colleges as they exist today. While they were important historically because blacks were denied access to mainstream institutions, these days so-called HBCUs are the least diverse colleges in the US. I think it is a bad idea to continue to have universities that continue to identify themselves with one race or another.

Btw, did you have a particular jurist in mind with that educational background?
 
Perhaps so, but she only made those allegations to Feinstein with the understanding that her information was confidential. Perhaps that was a naive assumption on her part, but that is what is in the public record. Your allegation that she and Feinstein were somehow coordinating a nefarious scheme to hold back information until the last minute is pure speculation based on your telepathic skills.
I do not claim any telepathic skills. But that's what the timing looked like to me.

It strikes me as completely reasonable that the events unfolded as the press reported them, based on the information that they had. I have to say that I watched all of the proceedings and hearings, and Ford was either being completely honest about her memories and motivations or she was an amazing scam artist.
She is a professional psychologist. You do no think she can use her experience to make appear herself more trustworthy?

She has been caught in several inconsistencies - things like why a second door was put in her house, or whether she coached somebody on taking a lie detector test.

I can understand why you would prefer to think of her as a master scam artist, but I don't find your speculation the least bit credible.
She may be telling the truth, she may be misremembering and genuinely believing that it happened, or she may be outright lying.
We have no evidence either way, so there is no way for us to know. And without evidence, the benefit of the doubt should go to the accused.


They look at corroboration and consistency of testimony.
There was no corroboration. Not from Keyser not Söze, not from anybody else who was at the party in question.
And lies can be internally consistent - that's not evidence of veracity. Not that her account was totally consistent though.
That's what investigations are about, not just physical recordings of people doing bad things. Investigators and prosecutors are actually quite skilled at doing those kinds of things.
Again, no evidence is no evidence. Consistency is not evidence. Corroboration would be evidence, but there is none in this case.

And there were records that could be used to corroborate some of the claims that people were making from memory. The FBI simply wasn't given the time or the leeway to do a reasonably thorough investigation concerning a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land.
Had the allegation been made at the time Kav was announced, FBI would have had more time. As it was made at the eve of confirmation hearings (I believe deliberately) there was no time to do an investigation without seriously delaying the confirmation vote. I also do not think FBI would have uncovered any usable evidence 35 years later. Memories fade, there is zero physical evidence, so what do you have left? An uncorroborated allegation for the sake of damaging somebody's reputation. That's pretty much it.

Huh??? What??? Now we are supposed to start talking about BLM and arson??? OK. Not going there. That's not relevant to what we were discussing.
I brought it up to make two points.
- You said Trump's DOJ was partisan. This shows Biden's DOJ is partisan too.
- Obama's sacrificial nominee, Merrick Garland, is widely thought to be a moderate. But his prosecutors basically acting as defense attorneys for a deadly #BLM arsonist shows that he is far from being a moderate.
 
That would be great. :) Next one, let's do that.

So you want three justices to be black, am I reading that right?
33% of the court?
Would there be anything wrong with that? Genuine question. It wouldn’t cause a problem in jusrisprudence, would it?

I’d prefer to see an Asian pick next, actually. As long as they aren’t Catholic. An atheist would be nice. Maybe Gay, too. And if they were mixed race and went to an HBCU, that would be good.
 
It strikes me as completely reasonable that the events unfolded as the press reported them, based on the information that they had. I have to say that I watched all of the proceedings and hearings, and Ford was either being completely honest about her memories and motivations or she was an amazing scam artist.
She is a professional psychologist. You do no think she can use her experience to make appear herself more trustworthy?

Absolutely not. Psychology professors are not trained to influence and control people as Svengali or Donald Trump are able to do. You don't seem to understand what the field of psychology is about or what psychology professors do.

She has been caught in several inconsistencies - things like why a second door was put in her house, or whether she coached somebody on taking a lie detector test.

There were also inconsistencies in Kavanaugh's testimony, and the one you remember about the door was actually not an inconsistency. Later investigation of the building permit showed that her testimony was accurate about the door.


I can understand why you would prefer to think of her as a master scam artist, but I don't find your speculation the least bit credible.
She may be telling the truth, she may be misremembering and genuinely believing that it happened, or she may be outright lying.
We have no evidence either way, so there is no way for us to know. And without evidence, the benefit of the doubt should go to the accused.

Not true. We have some evidence and a rushed FBI investigation that was micromanaged by the White House. The problem with your argument is that this was not a criminal trial, where there is a presumption of innocence and strict requirements for evidence. It was a Senate confirmation hearing for a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the land. The charges were very serious and needed a thorough investigation, even if it delayed the hearings. Questions still hang over Kavanaugh, but, barring an unlikely impeachment, the whole matter has been rendered moot. The confirmation hearing was a shameful act of political manipulation.

They look at corroboration and consistency of testimony.
There was no corroboration. Not from Keyser not Söze, not from anybody else who was at the party in question.
And lies can be internally consistent - that's not evidence of veracity. Not that her account was totally consistent though.

I don't remember Söze from the Senate hearing, but I know who Keyser Söze was. Great movie, wasn't it? The Keyser in the Ford matter claimed she couldn't remember the night in question. She also said that she believed Ford was telling the truth but could not testify. There were other witnesses that were not questioned by the FBI or the Senate hearing. And, lest you forget, neither of the principals--Ford or Kavanaugh--was even interviewed by the FBI. The investigation was a sham.

That's what investigations are about, not just physical recordings of people doing bad things. Investigators and prosecutors are actually quite skilled at doing those kinds of things.
Again, no evidence is no evidence. Consistency is not evidence. Corroboration would be evidence, but there is none in this case.

Again, a limited and rushed FBI investigation is a limited and rushed FBI investigation. And Senate testimony and allowed witnesses were extremely limited. So no evidence in this case is not the powerful argument that you think it is.

And there were records that could be used to corroborate some of the claims that people were making from memory. The FBI simply wasn't given the time or the leeway to do a reasonably thorough investigation concerning a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land.
Had the allegation been made at the time Kav was announced, FBI would have had more time. As it was made at the eve of confirmation hearings (I believe deliberately) there was no time to do an investigation without seriously delaying the confirmation vote. I also do not think FBI would have uncovered any usable evidence 35 years later. Memories fade, there is zero physical evidence, so what do you have left? An uncorroborated allegation for the sake of damaging somebody's reputation. That's pretty much it.

The timing is adequately explained in the public record, whether you want to believe it or not. Your suspicions are not a compelling reason to simply ignore the allegations made about a Supreme Court nominee, especially if it turns out that he was committing perjury during the hearing. There simply wasn't an adequate investigation of the charges, given the importance of a Supreme Court nomination.

Huh??? What??? Now we are supposed to start talking about BLM and arson??? OK. Not going there. That's not relevant to what we were discussing.
I brought it up to make two points.
- You said Trump's DOJ was partisan. This shows Biden's DOJ is partisan too.
- Obama's sacrificial nominee, Merrick Garland, is widely thought to be a moderate. But his prosecutors basically acting as defense attorneys for a deadly #BLM arsonist shows that he is far from being a moderate.

That's the problem with an argument based on whataboutism. Even if you could prove that Biden's DoJ is as partisan as Trump's was, that would have nothing whatsoever to do with the Kavanaugh confirmation. And why are you calling Merrick Garland a "sacrificial nominee"???? He was a legitimate nominee who was never allowed a hearing or a confirmation vote for totally partisan political reasons. If you think that the "arsonist" issue was disqualifying, that would have been addressed in the Senate hearing that HE NEVER HAD.

Just FYI, a whataboutism argument is a logical fallacy. Even if you can demonstrate that Democrats are total hypocrites, that does not invalidate the argument that Kavanaugh was never adequately investigated by either the FBI or the Senate committee charged with investigating him.
 
Would there be anything wrong with that? Genuine question.
You genuinely do not know what is wrong with keeping selecting judges based on race?
It wouldn’t cause a problem in jusrisprudence, would it?
What exactly do you mean by that? If jusrisprudence[sic] is your concern, why select judges based on race and sex to begin with?
I’d prefer to see an Asian pick next, actually.
Anybody but a white man, eh?

As long as they aren’t Catholic.
Is KBJ Catholic?

An atheist would be nice. Maybe Gay, too.
So Asian gay non-Catholic atheist?

And if they were mixed race and went to an HBCU, that would be good.

What's your and Keith's obsession with so-called HBCUs?
 
She is a professional psychologist. You do no think she can use her experience to make appear herself more trustworthy?

A psychologist is much more likely than the average person to recognize manipulation. That doesn't make them good at actually doing it.
 
Absolutely not. Psychology professors are not trained to influence and control people as Svengali or Donald Trump are able to do. You don't seem to understand what the field of psychology is about or what psychology professors do.
You don't think they know some tricks about making themselves present as more trustworthy?

There were also inconsistencies in Kavanaugh's testimony, and the one you remember about the door was actually not an inconsistency. Later investigation of the building permit showed that her testimony was accurate about the door.
As I remember the discussion, she claimed that the door was so she can have "another exit" because she was supposedly so traumatized by Kav. In reality, the door was installed because they rented out a room in the house, and it could not serve as an exit for somebody in the main part of the house.
What investigation are you referring to?

Not true. We have some evidence and a rushed FBI investigation that was micromanaged by the White House.
The only reason the FBI investigation was "rushed" was because the allegation was made so late. The goal was to delay the confirmation beyond the midterms.
And what "evidence" do you believe there was? Please be specific.
The problem with your argument is that this was not a criminal trial, where there is a presumption of innocence and strict requirements for evidence. It was a Senate confirmation hearing for a lifetime appointment on the highest court in the land.
So uncorroborated allegations without evidence of things that supposedly happened 35 years ago should derail a confirmation?
If I allege KBJ diddled me when she was 17, but I could not remember exactly when or where, should that derail her confirmation too, or would you demand some real evidence instead of just politics of personal destruction?

The charges were very serious and needed a thorough investigation, even if it delayed the hearings.
I firmly believe that this was the Ford/Feinstein strategy - make salacious allegations in the 11th hour with the goal to delay the confirmation beyond the midterms.

Questions still hang over Kavanaugh, but, barring an unlikely impeachment, the whole matter has been rendered moot.
Exactly. I propose we end this fruitless discussion.

The confirmation hearing was a shameful act of political manipulation.
I could not agree more!

I don't remember Söze from the Senate hearing, but I know who Keyser Söze was. Great movie, wasn't it?
Indeed it was.
The Keyser in the Ford matter claimed she couldn't remember the night in question. She also said that she believed Ford was telling the truth but could not testify.
And later said she felt pressured to say that.
NY Post said:
Keyser was being pressured by Ford’s allies from high school to do more to help their friend — and things were getting dirty, according to the book.
In a group text, one woman wrote of Keyser, “Maybe one of you guys who are friends with her can have a heart to heart. I don’t care, frankly, how f–ked up her life is. A lot of us have f–ked up lives in one way or another.’’
Another texter, apparently referring to what the book called Keyser’s “addictive tendencies,’’ said, “Perhaps it makes sense to let everyone in the public know what her condition is. Just a thought.’’
The authors say Keyser told them, “I was told behind the scenes that certain things could be spread about me if I didn’t comply.’’
And the fact still remains that she offered no corroboration to what Ford alleged. In fact she is very skeptical.
NY Post said:
“I don’t have any confidence in the story,” Leland Keyser — who Ford has said was at the party where the alleged assault occurred — told two New York Times reporters in their book “The Education of Brett Kavanaugh: An Investigation.”
“Those facts together I don’t recollect, and it just didn’t make any sense,” Keyser insisted of Ford’s account, according to authors Robin Pogrebin and Kate Kelly.
[...]
“It would be impossible for me to be the only girl at a get-together with three guys, have her leave and then not figure out how she’s getting home,” Keyser told the authors. “I just really didn’t have confidence in the story.”
Christine Blasey Ford’s friend now says she’s skeptical of Kavanaugh accusation

There were other witnesses that were not questioned by the FBI or the Senate hearing. And, lest you forget, neither of the principals--Ford or Kavanaugh--was even interviewed by the FBI. The investigation was a sham.
That's your opinion of the investigation. Mine is that this was a witch hunt to begin with.

Again, a limited and rushed FBI investigation is a limited and rushed FBI investigation. And Senate testimony and allowed witnesses were extremely limited. So no evidence in this case is not the powerful argument that you think it is.
No evidence was uncovered later either. Nobody came forward to do an exclusive bombshell interview. I doubt FBI would have uncovered anything more 35 years later either.
And again, the reason why the investigation had to be limited and rushed was the late timing of the allegation itself.

The timing is adequately explained in the public record, whether you want to believe it or not.
I do not. It was just too convenient with midterms coming up. It was a gambit that did not bear fruit.

That's the problem with an argument based on whataboutism. Even if you could prove that Biden's DoJ is as partisan as Trump's was, that would have nothing whatsoever to do with the Kavanaugh confirmation.
It disproves the claim that Trump's DOJ was uniquely partisan. As if Biden's DOJ would not defend KBJ from unsubstantiated, salacious allegations from when she was a teenager.

And why are you calling Merrick Garland a "sacrificial nominee"????
Obama knew that he will almost certainly not be confirmed from the get-go. He is not a fool, nor is he naïve.
That's why he nominated somebody who was already 64 when usually presidents go for much younger nominees who can serve many decades.

He was a legitimate nominee who was never allowed a hearing or a confirmation vote for totally partisan political reasons. If you think that the "arsonist" issue was disqualifying, that would have been addressed in the Senate hearing that HE NEVER HAD.
The trial arsonist (I do not know why you put it in scare quotes, the #BLM insurrectionist did set a fire which makes him an actual arsonist, not an "arsonist") happened recently, with Garland as AG, and would not have come in a confirmation hearing that would have been held in 2016.

Just FYI, a whataboutism argument is a logical fallacy.
It would be if I was trying to make a fallacious statement. Pointing hypocrisy is not the same as whataboutism.
 
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