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Stock Market Out Of It's Mind - S&P hits record

Adults? Who are they? Where are they?

Generally, adults are people who understand that 'hiring the best people' entails hiring the most qualified individuals for the position - even if they've been critical of you in the past. As opposed to hiring only people who will start every meeting with a round of complements on your performance.

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Link

article said:
The S&P 500 (SPX) closed at an all-time high on Tuesday for the first time since the Covid-19 pandemic hit the United States.

The index, which is the broadest measure of Wall Street, had been hovering in record territory for days but repeatedly fell short of reaching the milestone. But Tuesday was finally the day. It close up 0.2%, the first record since February 19.

The record is a big deal, because it means it only took Wall Street five months to go from the most recent trough -- after the pandemic selloff in March -- to a new peak. This would make the Covid bear market the shortest in history, at just 1.1 months, said S&P Dow Jones Indices' Howard Silverblatt. Stocks fell into a bear market during the spring selloff.
The stock market is officially out of its mind. If I didn't know better, I'd swear it was on a manic high. The stock market immediately needs to submit to drug testing!

Seriously, they say the market doesn't dwell in the past... but seeing that lots of bankruptcies are occurring, revenues are not good, economic demand is going to be down for half a year plus... where is the heck is the optimism coming from. There is no vaccine yet, forget the several necessary to get us back to full on economic machine.

Schools aren't opening! Stock market is up.

The stock market has little to nothing to do with the economy and very much to do with how much money is in the hands of the already rich who can't get a decent return on the money from financial instruments paying interest rates that are functionally negative now in relation to cost of living increases. Currently we are seeing the results of the Fed's emergency open market operations where they buy Treasury bills and other bonds on the open market to put even more money into the hands of the already rich, to the tune of three trillion dollars. Much of this money will end up in the stock market.

If you have missed my explanation of how this happened. ..


Neoliberalism is the current political economics that defines our economics policies and it has been for more than forty years with 100% of the Republicans and 50% of Democrats, the blue dog conservative Democrats, the Clinton/Biden wing of the party, actively pursuing the neoliberal policies.

The main thrust of neoliberalism is to turn away from Keynesian economics that says we have to develop our economic policies by looking at the realities of how the economy actually works. Neoliberalism instead says that we have to turn back to neoclassical economics, driven by ideology, to what the economy would be if, one, a self-regulating free market is possible and, two, we could turn our existing economy into one. Both are rather dubious propositions, IMHO.

The practical result of our neoliberal economic policies are many but the one that we are concerned with here is a high and ever-increasing level of income inequality from higher profits created by suppressing wages. This is because a critical part of neoliberalism is the idea that we have a truly free labor market* where workers are paid what the economy determines what they are worth, not what they are able to negotiate, that negotiating is gaming and therefore, perverting the economy, and is somehow a denial of individual freedom.

* neoliberals intentionally blur the lines between their theories of what the economy should be and what it is. That this intentional is no doubt, they have the idea that if we treat the theories as the realities that the realities will change into the theories! That is, if we treat the economy as if it is a self-regulating free market it will turn into a self-regulating free market.

It is this bias toward ever-increasing income inequality that gives the already rich the money to drive up the stock market even when we are in an economic depression. The already rich are relatively immune to economic recessions now because the large corporations are immune also. The already rich have increased their share of the national income** after each of the last three recessions.

** I have been accused of referring to something that doesn't exist, the national income. I have been told that the nation doesn't earn an income, individuals earn an income. I have asked what to call the aggregate of all of the individuals' income in the nation instead. No answer to this question was offered, so I am stuck still calling the mathematical sum of all of the individual's income in the nation what the economists call it, the national income.

The stock market actually has no function in our current economy. Originally, stock markets were used to raise money for existing corporations to invest in new facilities for production or to research and to develop new products and processes. And the stock markets were used to raise money for new businesses. The stock markets were used to fund the lifeblood of economic growth in capitalism, increases in productivity and innovation. But no longer. The modern corporation handles these functions internally. They self-fund investments either by using retained earnings or borrowed funds through the sales of corporate bonds or bank loans.

If they would raise money through the stock market by selling either newly issued stock or their own stock they hold in reserve, both would be called secondary equity offerings (SEOs) which they are required to report to the SEC. Because these are widely considered to be the last resort for a corporation already in serious trouble, there are few to no SEOs in a year that provide the corporation with money. Unfortunately, the sales of the closely held stock is also considered to be an SEO, shares held by founding families, or where there are few stockholders because little stock is offered to the general public for any reason. This means that we can't easily separate out SEOs raising money by selling newly issued shares or of reserve shares from the sales of closely held shares, the shares sold to provide the corporation with money would be measured in millions of dollars, not billions, each year compared to the tens of trillions of dollars in stock market annual volume.

 
The stock market has little to nothing to do with the economy and very much to do with how much money is in the hands of the already rich who can't get a decent return on the money from financial instruments paying interest rates that are functionally negative now in relation to cost of living increases. Currently we are seeing the results of the Fed's emergency open market operations where they buy Treasury bills and other bonds on the open market to put even more money into the hands of the already rich, to the tune of three trillion dollars. Much of this money will end up in the stock market.

If you have missed my explanation of how this happened.

Neoliberalism is the current political economics that defines our economics policies and it has been for more than forty years with 100% of the Republicans and 50% of Democrats, the blue dog conservative Democrats, the Clinton/Biden wing of the party, actively pursuing the neoliberal policies.

The main thrust of neoliberalism is to turn away from Keynesian economics that says we have to develop our economic policies by looking at the realities of how the economy actually works. Neoliberalism instead says that we have to turn back to neoclassical economics, driven by ideology, to what the economy would be if, one, a self-regulating free market is possible and, two, we could turn our existing economy into one. Both are rather dubious propositions, IMHO.

The practical result of our neoliberal economic policies are many but the one that we are concerned with here is a high and ever-increasing level of income inequality from higher profits created by suppressing wages. This is because a critical part of neoliberalism is the idea that we have a truly free labor market* where workers are paid what the economy determines what they are worth, not what they are able to negotiate, that negotiating is gaming and therefore, perverting the economy, and is somehow a denial of individual freedom.

* neoliberals intentionally blur the lines between their theories of what the economy should be and what it is. That this intentional is no doubt, they have the idea that if we treat the theories as the realities that the realities will change into the theories! That is, if we treat the economy as if it is a self-regulating free market it will turn into a self-regulating free market.

It is this bias toward ever increasing income inequality that gives the already rich the money to drive up the stock market even when we are in an economic depression. The already rich are relatively immune to economic recessions now because the large corporations are immune also. The already rich have increased their share of the national income** after each of the last three recessions.

** I have been accused of referring to something that doesn't exist, the national income. I have been told that the nation doesn't earn an income, individuals earn an income. I have asked what to call the aggregate of all of the individuals' income in the nation instead. No answer to this question was offered, so I am stuck still calling the mathematical sum of all of the individual's income in the nation what the economists call it, the national income.

The stock market actually has no function in our current economy. Orginally, stock markets were used to raise money for existing corporations to invest in new facilities for production or to research and to develop new products and processes. And the stock markets were used to raise money for new businesses. The stock markets were used to fund the lifeblood of economic growth in capitalism, increases in productivity and innovation. But no longer. The modern corporation handles these functions internally. They self-fund investments either by using retained earnings or borrowed funds through the sales of corporate bonds or bank loans.

If they would raise money through the stock market by selling either newly issued stock or their own stock they hold in reserve, both would be called secondary equity offerings (SEOs) which they are required to report to the SEC. Because these are widely considered to be the last resort for a corporation already in serious trouble, there are few to no SEOs in a year that provide the corporation with money. Unfortunately, the sales of closely held stock is also considered to be a SEO, shares held by founding families, or where there are few stockholders because little stock is offered to the general public for any reason. This means that we can't easily separate out SEOs raising money by selling newly issued shares or of reserve shares from the sales of closely held shares, the shares sold to provide the corporation with money would be measured in millions of dollars, not billions, each year compared to the tens of trillions of dollars in stock market annual volume.


While I partly agree with the visible quoted paragraph, there is much in the Hide box which is very misleading, highly exaggerated, or even wrong. I'd be happy to demonstrate this in detail, but first would want a ruling on whether it would be a breach of etiquette to break the Hide tags.
 
The stock market has little to nothing to do with the economy and very much to do with how much money is in the hands of the already rich who can't get a decent return on the money from financial instruments paying interest rates that are functionally negative now in relation to cost of living increases. Currently we are seeing the results of the Fed's emergency open market operations where they buy Treasury bills and other bonds on the open market to put even more money into the hands of the already rich, to the tune of three trillion dollars. Much of this money will end up in the stock market.

If you have missed my explanation of how this happened.

Neoliberalism is the current political economics that defines our economics policies and it has been for more than forty years with 100% of the Republicans and 50% of Democrats, the blue dog conservative Democrats, the Clinton/Biden wing of the party, actively pursuing the neoliberal policies.

The main thrust of neoliberalism is to turn away from Keynesian economics that says we have to develop our economic policies by looking at the realities of how the economy actually works. Neoliberalism instead says that we have to turn back to neoclassical economics, driven by ideology, to what the economy would be if, one, a self-regulating free market is possible and, two, we could turn our existing economy into one. Both are rather dubious propositions, IMHO.

The practical result of our neoliberal economic policies are many but the one that we are concerned with here is a high and ever-increasing level of income inequality from higher profits created by suppressing wages. This is because a critical part of neoliberalism is the idea that we have a truly free labor market* where workers are paid what the economy determines what they are worth, not what they are able to negotiate, that negotiating is gaming and therefore, perverting the economy, and is somehow a denial of individual freedom.

* neoliberals intentionally blur the lines between their theories of what the economy should be and what it is. That this intentional is no doubt, they have the idea that if we treat the theories as the realities that the realities will change into the theories! That is, if we treat the economy as if it is a self-regulating free market it will turn into a self-regulating free market.

It is this bias toward ever increasing income inequality that gives the already rich the money to drive up the stock market even when we are in an economic depression. The already rich are relatively immune to economic recessions now because the large corporations are immune also. The already rich have increased their share of the national income** after each of the last three recessions.

** I have been accused of referring to something that doesn't exist, the national income. I have been told that the nation doesn't earn an income, individuals earn an income. I have asked what to call the aggregate of all of the individuals' income in the nation instead. No answer to this question was offered, so I am stuck still calling the mathematical sum of all of the individual's income in the nation what the economists call it, the national income.

The stock market actually has no function in our current economy. Orginally, stock markets were used to raise money for existing corporations to invest in new facilities for production or to research and to develop new products and processes. And the stock markets were used to raise money for new businesses. The stock markets were used to fund the lifeblood of economic growth in capitalism, increases in productivity and innovation. But no longer. The modern corporation handles these functions internally. They self-fund investments either by using retained earnings or borrowed funds through the sales of corporate bonds or bank loans.

If they would raise money through the stock market by selling either newly issued stock or their own stock they hold in reserve, both would be called secondary equity offerings (SEOs) which they are required to report to the SEC. Because these are widely considered to be the last resort for a corporation already in serious trouble, there are few to no SEOs in a year that provide the corporation with money. Unfortunately, the sales of closely held stock is also considered to be a SEO, shares held by founding families, or where there are few stockholders because little stock is offered to the general public for any reason. This means that we can't easily separate out SEOs raising money by selling newly issued shares or of reserve shares from the sales of closely held shares, the shares sold to provide the corporation with money would be measured in millions of dollars, not billions, each year compared to the tens of trillions of dollars in stock market annual volume.


While I partly agree with the visible quoted paragraph, there is much in the Hide box which is very misleading, highly exaggerated, or even wrong. I'd be happy to demonstrate this in detail, but first would want a ruling on whether it would be a breach of etiquette to break the Hide tags.

I don't think that it would be. I certainly didn't put the material in show-hide tags to keep it from being discussed, only to keep my post from appearing too long which discourages people from reading it plus that for some reason it opens me up to accusations of derailing the thread, although I don't think so, explaining the "why" is not derailing the thread in my book. That and the material in the show-hide tags is material that I have presented before, my well-ridden hobby horse as it is, which the few people who read my post are familiar with.
 
Link

article said:
The S&P 500 (SPX) closed at an all-time high on Tuesday for the first time since the Covid-19 pandemic hit the United States.

The index, which is the broadest measure of Wall Street, had been hovering in record territory for days but repeatedly fell short of reaching the milestone. But Tuesday was finally the day. It close up 0.2%, the first record since February 19.

The record is a big deal, because it means it only took Wall Street five months to go from the most recent trough -- after the pandemic selloff in March -- to a new peak. This would make the Covid bear market the shortest in history, at just 1.1 months, said S&P Dow Jones Indices' Howard Silverblatt. Stocks fell into a bear market during the spring selloff.
The stock market is officially out of its mind. If I didn't know better, I'd swear it was on a manic high. The stock market immediately needs to submit to drug testing!

Seriously, they say the market doesn't dwell in the past... but seeing that lots of bankruptcies are occurring, revenues are not good, economic demand is going to be down for half a year plus... where is the heck is the optimism coming from. There is no vaccine yet, forget the several necessary to get us back to full on economic machine.

Schools aren't opening! Stock market is up.

The stock market has little to nothing to do with the economy and very much to do with how much money is in the hands of the already rich who can't get a decent return on the money from financial instruments paying interest rates that are functionally negative now in relation to cost of living increases. Currently we are seeing the results of the Fed's emergency open market operations where they buy Treasury bills and other bonds on the open market to put even more money into the hands of the already rich, to the tune of three trillion dollars. Much of this money will end up in the stock market.

If you have missed my explanation of how this happened. ..


Neoliberalism is the current political economics that defines our economics policies and it has been for more than forty years with 100% of the Republicans and 50% of Democrats, the blue dog conservative Democrats, the Clinton/Biden wing of the party, actively pursuing the neoliberal policies.

The main thrust of neoliberalism is to turn away from Keynesian economics that says we have to develop our economic policies by looking at the realities of how the economy actually works. Neoliberalism instead says that we have to turn back to neoclassical economics, driven by ideology, to what the economy would be if, one, a self-regulating free market is possible and, two, we could turn our existing economy into one. Both are rather dubious propositions, IMHO.

The practical result of our neoliberal economic policies are many but the one that we are concerned with here is a high and ever-increasing level of income inequality from higher profits created by suppressing wages. This is because a critical part of neoliberalism is the idea that we have a truly free labor market* where workers are paid what the economy determines what they are worth, not what they are able to negotiate, that negotiating is gaming and therefore, perverting the economy, and is somehow a denial of individual freedom.

* neoliberals intentionally blur the lines between their theories of what the economy should be and what it is. That this intentional is no doubt, they have the idea that if we treat the theories as the realities that the realities will change into the theories! That is, if we treat the economy as if it is a self-regulating free market it will turn into a self-regulating free market.

It is this bias toward ever-increasing income inequality that gives the already rich the money to drive up the stock market even when we are in an economic depression. The already rich are relatively immune to economic recessions now because the large corporations are immune also. The already rich have increased their share of the national income** after each of the last three recessions.

** I have been accused of referring to something that doesn't exist, the national income. I have been told that the nation doesn't earn an income, individuals earn an income. I have asked what to call the aggregate of all of the individuals' income in the nation instead. No answer to this question was offered, so I am stuck still calling the mathematical sum of all of the individual's income in the nation what the economists call it, the national income.

The stock market actually has no function in our current economy. Originally, stock markets were used to raise money for existing corporations to invest in new facilities for production or to research and to develop new products and processes. And the stock markets were used to raise money for new businesses. The stock markets were used to fund the lifeblood of economic growth in capitalism, increases in productivity and innovation. But no longer. The modern corporation handles these functions internally. They self-fund investments either by using retained earnings or borrowed funds through the sales of corporate bonds or bank loans.

If they would raise money through the stock market by selling either newly issued stock or their own stock they hold in reserve, both would be called secondary equity offerings (SEOs) which they are required to report to the SEC. Because these are widely considered to be the last resort for a corporation already in serious trouble, there are few to no SEOs in a year that provide the corporation with money. Unfortunately, the sales of the closely held stock is also considered to be an SEO, shares held by founding families, or where there are few stockholders because little stock is offered to the general public for any reason. This means that we can't easily separate out SEOs raising money by selling newly issued shares or of reserve shares from the sales of closely held shares, the shares sold to provide the corporation with money would be measured in millions of dollars, not billions, each year compared to the tens of trillions of dollars in stock market annual volume.


Don? Do you really believe all that? You really think that there aren't any IPO's or companies that issuing additional rounds of shares. This happens every day. What is your source?
 
Perhaps one day I'll publish my own politico-economic manifesto. It will show that my own positions and conclusions are not too different from SimpleDon's. However I do think he exaggerates. Certainly the claim that there is congruence between the mainstreams for both major American Parties is a very wrong and dangerous message.

Neoliberalism is the current political economics that defines our economics policies and it has been for more than forty years with 100% of the Republicans and 50% of Democrats, the blue dog conservative Democrats, the Clinton/Biden wing of the party, actively pursuing the neoliberal policies.

The main thrust of neoliberalism is to turn away from Keynesian economics that says we have to develop our economic policies by looking at the realities of how the economy actually works. Neoliberalism instead says that we have to turn back to neoclassical economics, driven by ideology, to what the economy would be if, one, a self-regulating free market is possible and, two, we could turn our existing economy into one. Both are rather dubious propositions, IMHO.

Everyone, even the governments of Communist China and Communist Vietnam, acknowledges the power of free-markets and private entrepreneurship to increase prosperity and general welfare. And almost all thinkers, beginning with Adam Smith 'father of capitalism,' acknowledge the need for government intervention to curb monopoly power, account for external costs, and to give priority to public benefit as well as private greed. (I write "almost everyone" to allow for the crackpottery of Rand Paul, Paul Ryan and others of that ilk — none of whom infest the Democratic Party.)

In short, the quoted excerpt paints a picture that is much too black-and-white. To lump Democrats who feel the Green New Deal moves too quickly with Republicans who suck up to their corporate masters by opposing all government regulations, is to enable the Ignorati — America's dominant political faction — to fall victim to the canard that "both sides are the same."

It IS true that politicians in the U.S. and around the world have been reluctant to oppose powerful financial interests. Often this support is NOT done to enrich campaign donors, but is done from fear of financial collapse. For example, in the 2008 crisis, SecTreas Henry Paulson was ex-CEO of Goldman Sachs and did not present policy-makers with options that would hurt the broad range of bank shareholders. Congress went along with Paulson's plans less to keep Wall Street paying big bonuses, and more out of fear (whether justified or not) of a financial Armageddon. (One saw something similar in South Africa: at the same time Nelson Mandela was gaining top political power, the bankers of South Africa were pushing through arrangements to ensure their continued wealth and power, and hapless politicians went along)

The practical result of our neoliberal economic policies are many but the one that we are concerned with here is a high and ever-increasing level of income inequality from higher profits created by suppressing wages. This is because a critical part of neoliberalism is the idea that we have a truly free labor market* where workers are paid what the economy determines what they are worth, not what they are able to negotiate, that negotiating is gaming and therefore, perverting the economy, and is somehow a denial of individual freedom.
...
It is this bias toward ever-increasing income inequality that gives the already rich the money to drive up the stock market even when we are in an economic depression. The already rich are relatively immune to economic recessions now because the large corporations are immune also. The already rich have increased their share of the national income** after each of the last three recessions.
...

Extreme wealth and income inequality are almost as old as civilization. As Thomas Piketty points out, the reduced inequality seen for several decades in the mid-20th century was an anomaly, driven by wars and the collapse of empires. Inequality is driven primarily by inherited wealth or caste. (The American colonies and U.S. of 18th and early 19th century had very low wealth inequality: immigrants had arrived with little, and land prices were kept low by abundance.)

Income and wealth inequality are likely to get worse. Not just capital owners, but very skilled workers get an increasing share of the pie, while low-skill workers compete with robots and overseas workers. This is a natural development. We do want our leaders to target this as a problem but, again, to lump Democrats and Republicans together on this topic is dreadfully wrong.

The stock market actually has no function in our current economy. Originally, stock markets were used to raise money for existing corporations to invest in new facilities for production or to research and to develop new products and processes. And the stock markets were used to raise money for new businesses. The stock markets were used to fund the lifeblood of economic growth in capitalism, increases in productivity and innovation. But no longer. The modern corporation handles these functions internally. They self-fund investments either by using retained earnings or borrowed funds through the sales of corporate bonds or bank loans.

If they would raise money through the stock market by selling either newly issued stock or their own stock they hold in reserve, both would be called secondary equity offerings (SEOs) which they are required to report to the SEC. Because these are widely considered to be the last resort for a corporation already in serious trouble, there are few to no SEOs in a year that provide the corporation with money. Unfortunately, the sales of the closely held stock is also considered to be an SEO, shares held by founding families, or where there are few stockholders because little stock is offered to the general public for any reason. This means that we can't easily separate out SEOs raising money by selling newly issued shares or of reserve shares from the sales of closely held shares, the shares sold to provide the corporation with money would be measured in millions of dollars, not billions, each year compared to the tens of trillions of dollars in stock market annual volume.

The U.S. financial sector is much MUCH too large and powerful. On that we can agree. Some pimps for intense financialization make arguments like "Market makers have provided a good public benefit (enhanced 'price discovery') therefore funnelling hundreds of billions of dollars through 'high frequency trading' must be even better." Ha! One might as well argue that if a small glass of wine is good for health, guzzling gallons every day must be even better.

America's bloated financial sector is diverting top talent and resources, has too much power, and presents grave risks as we saw in 2008. I support a tiny Tobin tax, or tax on stock trades. But to imply that individuals should have no easy way to sell a few shares if they need cash for an emergency is, again, to think too much in black-and-white. Let's think in shades of gray.
 
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