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Strategic Petroleum Reserve release

Rhea

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Seeing on the news that Biden plan to make a “massive release” from the SPR.

It feels like this is short-sighted and pandering. My gut tells me to hang onto the petroleum reserve unless we need it dire crisis. To use it for price relief seems like it creates a risk against a true crisis.

But that’s my gut speaking. What do all y’all’s brains say?
 
How many other countries have a SPR, and do they use it for price relief, too?

Who tends to use it, or ask for its use; capitalists or socialists (lefties or righties)?
 
I agree that I would rather see petrol stay in the ground, whether that ground is a natural well or a bunker.

It seems shortsighted to have ever pulled it out of the ground.
 
Seeing on the news that Biden plan to make a “massive release” from the SPR.

It feels like this is short-sighted and pandering. My gut tells me to hang onto the petroleum reserve unless we need it dire crisis. To use it for price relief seems like it creates a risk against a true crisis.

But that’s my gut speaking. What do all y’all’s brains say?
Yes and no. We should be able to afford $4 a gallon gas (sorry California... ;)). But weren't they stuffing the reserve when oil was bare bones cheap? The issue here is that we don't have a supply problem. But the market is acting like we do.
 
There are numerous oil wells in farmer fields NW of me between Saginaw and Midland. I passed by them last week. None of them were in operation.
 
Seeing on the news that Biden plan to make a “massive release” from the SPR.

It feels like this is short-sighted and pandering. My gut tells me to hang onto the petroleum reserve unless we need it dire crisis. To use it for price relief seems like it creates a risk against a true crisis.

But that’s my gut speaking. What do all y’all’s brains say?

You are absolutely right that it is a bit shortsighted to draw down the strategic reserve just to alleviate the rise in prices.

The Biden administration, and Dems in general, are in a bind. on one hand they want to reduce and eventually eliminate carbon-based fuels, and higher prices are imperative in incentivizing people to use less and consider alternatives such as electric cars and using transit more often. On the other hand, higher gas prices harm the less affluent more than the more affluent.

That's how we get schizophrenic behavior of Dems fighting against fracking and gas/oil pipelines (Obama blocked the already approved DAPL in the waning days of his presidency for example) and Biden finally killed Keystone XL but at the same time Biden called for Gulf states to pump more oil when the prices increased (even before the Ukraine invasion).

You can't really have it both ways.
 
Seeing on the news that Biden plan to make a “massive release” from the SPR.

It feels like this is short-sighted and pandering. My gut tells me to hang onto the petroleum reserve unless we need it dire crisis. To use it for price relief seems like it creates a risk against a true crisis.

But that’s my gut speaking. What do all y’all’s brains say?

You are absolutely right that it is a bit shortsighted to draw down the strategic reserve just to alleviate the rise in prices.

The Biden administration, and Dems in general, are in a bind. on one hand they want to reduce and eventually eliminate carbon-based fuels, and higher prices are imperative in incentivizing people to use less and consider alternatives such as electric cars and using transit more often. On the other hand, higher gas prices harm the less affluent more than the more affluent.

That's how we get schizophrenic behavior of Dems fighting against fracking and gas/oil pipelines (Obama blocked the already approved DAPL in the waning days of his presidency for example) and Biden finally killed Keystone XL but at the same time Biden called for Gulf states to pump more oil when the prices increased (even before the Ukraine invasion).

You can't really have it both ways.
Sure you can. It makes strategic sense to deplete the reserves of OPEC countries before we deplete ours.

Of course, we could deal with higher gas prices with income support targeted to the less affluent.
 
I agree that I would rather see petrol stay in the ground, whether that ground is a natural well or a bunker.
It seems shortsighted to have ever pulled it out of the ground.

Like it or not, we will be dependent on oil and gas for several more decades even under best case scenarios.
How do you expect US (and World) economy could run if we keep it all in the ground?

And as far as EVs go, do you (like some eco-radicals) feel the same about other extractive industries? Particularly the mining for copper, nickel, cobalt, lithium and rare earth metals needed to decarbonize the economy.
 
Sure you can. It makes strategic sense to deplete the reserves of OPEC countries before we deplete ours.
Doesn't really make much sense given that there is high demand for oil now, but the demand in 2050 is likely to be much less.

Of course, we could deal with higher gas prices with income support targeted to the less affluent.
Very rarely you have a good idea. This is one of those times. Of course, knowing the Dems, their idea of "less affluent" is anybody making less than $400k and they will make the support dependent on the number of kids you have. :rolleyesa:
 
Seeing on the news that Biden plan to make a “massive release” from the SPR.

It feels like this is short-sighted and pandering. My gut tells me to hang onto the petroleum reserve unless we need it dire crisis. To use it for price relief seems like it creates a risk against a true crisis.

But that’s my gut speaking. What do all y’all’s brains say?

You are absolutely right that it is a bit shortsighted to draw down the strategic reserve just to alleviate the rise in prices.

The Biden administration, and Dems in general, are in a bind. on one hand they want to reduce and eventually eliminate carbon-based fuels, and higher prices are imperative in incentivizing people to use less and consider alternatives such as electric cars and using transit more often. On the other hand, higher gas prices harm the less affluent more than the more affluent.

That's how we get schizophrenic behavior of Dems fighting against fracking and gas/oil pipelines (Obama blocked the already approved DAPL in the waning days of his presidency for example) and Biden finally killed Keystone XL but at the same time Biden called for Gulf states to pump more oil when the prices increased (even before the Ukraine invasion).

You can't really have it both ways.
Keystone XL was about transporting Canadian tar sands to Louisiana for processing and shipment overseas. The energy consumption was pretty darn high. Meanwhile, OPEC can just pump more regular oil. Keystone XL was never about energy dependency. Meanwhile oil/gas production while Obama was President soared America into first place in both globally.

The issue right now is that there is a arbitrary undersupply of oil globally. Oil nations want to make up for the losses a couple years ago. So ultimately, this definitely shows why we should want to get away from oil powered cars because the cost to power them is quite arbitrary and open to manipulation. Electricity from nuclear would be a bit more stable.
 
There are numerous oil wells in farmer fields NW of me between Saginaw and Midland. I passed by them last week. None of them were in operation.
Are they still viable? Just because there are pumpjacks visible, does not mean the wells haven't run dry.
That said, it may be possible to extract more from those formations using fracking, but that is a dirty word in the contemporary Democratic Party.

Gretchen Whitmer is already opposed to oil pipelines like Line 5. Do you really think she would be amenable to expanding fracking that is irrationally hated by the rank and file in her party?
 
Keystone XL was about transporting Canadian tar sands to Louisiana for processing and shipment overseas.
First part is correct. It is moving Canadian super-heavy oil to Gulf Coast refineries equipped to process it. The second part is nonsense. There is more than enough demand in the US for this oil and the Colonial Pipeline that originates with those refineries and supplies the Southeastern US and up into the Mid-Atlantic is right there too.

The energy consumption was pretty darn high. Meanwhile, OPEC can just pump more regular oil. Keystone XL was never about energy dependency.
Having to beg OPEC(+) to pump more oil is the definition of energy dependence.
And to ask OPEC+ to pump more oil while at the same time trying to shut down domestic pipelines is what I am talking about with regards to Dems being in a bind between wanting to do two contradictory things.

Note also that some OPEC oil is oil sands too. Particularly Venezuela with their Orinoco Belt.
Lastly, while oil sands are more energy intensive than light oil (e.g. from Bakken), the difference is not nearly as high as made out by radical environmentalists like Bill McKibben.

Meanwhile oil/gas production while Obama was President soared America into first place in both globally.
Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc.
US oil and gas production increased thanks to the shale revolution using hydraulic fracturing (aka fracking) and not because of anything Obama did.
Marketed-Natural-Gas-Production-in-the-United-States-20160505.png

450px-Crude_oil_production_and_fracking_EIA.png

As you can see, the shale revolution started before Obama. It merely continued during his presidency.
In fact, while Obama initially supported the "all of the above" approach to energy, later on he moved toward the ecomentalist wing of the Democratic Party, even blocking the Dakota Access Pipeline (that is moving light sweet fracked oil from the Bakken formation).

The issue right now is that there is a arbitrary undersupply of oil globally. Oil nations want to make up for the losses a couple years ago.
It's not arbitrary. It's a well-known phenomenon of overshoot. When prices increase, demand decreases, economy may slow down, decreasing demand further. Supply increases, but only so much can be done quickly, and new projects have long lead times. The increased supply, when it finally happens, decreases prices. So demand increases, and there are fewer new projects.
That has been happening for decades. Theoretically, a market dominant body like OPEC is supposed to smooth out these cycles, just like Texas Railroad Commission did back in the day, but OPEC is pretty dysfunctional at best of times.
And of course, the Pandemic was a huge shock to the system (oil futures traded in the negative at one point!) and that affected supply.

So ultimately, this definitely shows why we should want to get away from oil powered cars because the cost to power them is quite arbitrary and open to manipulation. Electricity from nuclear would be a bit more stable.
I agree, but it will take a couple of decades to transition. In the meantime, we need to get more of our oil from domestic production and neighbors like Canada, and less from OPEC+.
 
There are numerous oil wells in farmer fields NW of me between Saginaw and Midland. I passed by them last week. None of them were in operation.

I owned an oil well until October of last year. Wells can't pump all of the time. They are assigned an allocation of how much they can pump in the year.

Seeing on the news that Biden plan to make a “massive release” from the SPR.

It feels like this is short-sighted and pandering. My gut tells me to hang onto the petroleum reserve unless we need it dire crisis. To use it for price relief seems like it creates a risk against a true crisis.

But that’s my gut speaking. What do all y’all’s brains say?

You are absolutely right that it is a bit shortsighted to draw down the strategic reserve just to alleviate the rise in prices.

The Biden administration, and Dems in general, are in a bind. on one hand they want to reduce and eventually eliminate carbon-based fuels, and higher prices are imperative in incentivizing people to use less and consider alternatives such as electric cars and using transit more often. On the other hand, higher gas prices harm the less affluent more than the more affluent.

That's how we get schizophrenic behavior of Dems fighting against fracking and gas/oil pipelines (Obama blocked the already approved DAPL in the waning days of his presidency for example) and Biden finally killed Keystone XL but at the same time Biden called for Gulf states to pump more oil when the prices increased (even before the Ukraine invasion).

You can't really have it both ways.

Yes, you can. You can raise the wages of the poor by raising the minimum wage, aggressively promoting unionization instead of aggressively fighting it, compressing the net income distribution by raising taxes on the high earners, and restricting the number of dollars that the fed will accept from overseas markets limiting the number of foreign trade deficits every year to say 150 billion dollars a year. These measures would go a long way to address the fifty-year-long conversion of the workers' wages into profits. Excessive profits are bad for the economy, wages stopped growing in the first quarter of this year meaning that all of the inflation that we are seeing now is caused by excessive profits.

It is absurd to blame Biden for the high gas prices. Every nation on earth is experiencing high gas prices. You would have to argue that Biden is responsible for every country's high gas prices no matter what energy policies each country has. This should be enough to tell any critical thinker that the cause of the high gas prices isn't energy policy-based. The oil companies are rent-seeking in the absence of any economic and governmental pressure to increase their production of oil.

Most countries haven't reported high levels of inflation because most countries report inflation month to month like all of their other economic statistics. The US is almost alone in reporting monthly month-to-year inflation. It doesn't make any sense. A year ago we were in deflation due to COVID-19, of course, the inflation number is high but it is of little use, the correct way to calculate the year's inflation rate is to calculate the yearly inflation rate is to look at month to month inflation since January 1 and extend that to a year by multiplying the inflation since 1 January/(12 - the last month number) times 12 (I may need a plus or minus 1 somewhere in there). That results in a yearly inflation rate just south of 4%, higher than we were used to before the pandemic but nothing to panic about. It is just consumers spending the last of their one-time pandemic savings, they couldn't take trips or go to restaurants, and the last of their one-time stimulus payments, and corporations rent-seeking.
 
Biden (or whoever is running the show) is an incompetent buffoon. This action will have a negligible impact on the price of gas at the pump. He has fucked up again.

LGB.
 
Biden (or whoever is running the show) is an incompetent buffoon. This action will have a negligible impact on the price of gas at the pump. He has fucked up again.

LGB.
How is it a fuck up?
Though it be of minimal impact, it will span the summer driving season when prices normally rise.
The real issue is not the “incompetent buffoon” but the “selfish little fucks” across the country who do nothing but complain when the world stops dedicating itself to their happiness.
Plan ahead. Consolidate errands. Drive less. Lower demand.
 
Keystone XL was about transporting Canadian tar sands to Louisiana for processing and shipment overseas.
First part is correct. It is moving Canadian super-heavy oil to Gulf Coast refineries equipped to process it. The second part is nonsense. There is more than enough demand in the US for this oil and the Colonial Pipeline that originates with those refineries and supplies the Southeastern US and up into the Mid-Atlantic is right there too.
Not at the cost to produce it.
The energy consumption was pretty darn high. Meanwhile, OPEC can just pump more regular oil. Keystone XL was never about energy dependency.
Having to beg OPEC(+) to pump more oil is the definition of energy dependence.
The US does not have enough oil capacity to dwarf OPEC. Meaning we are susceptible to their production numbers globally in the commodities market.
Meanwhile oil/gas production while Obama was President soared America into first place in both globally.
Cum hoc, ergo propter hoc.
US oil and gas production increased thanks to the shale revolution using hydraulic fracturing (aka fracking) and not because of anything Obama did.
Marketed-Natural-Gas-Production-in-the-United-States-20160505.png

450px-Crude_oil_production_and_fracking_EIA.png
Yes, I didn't claim Obama was out behind a rig, drilling fracking wells. I said US oil/gas production jumped up substantially during his administration, of which you provided charts to demonstrate. Thanks. :)
 
Biden (or whoever is running the show) is an incompetent buffoon. This action will have a negligible impact on the price of gas at the pump. He has fucked up again.

LGB.
Yes, releasing 7 million barrels of oil from the 714 million barrel reserve is going to be the end of the world. A cult like cult!
 
Biden (or whoever is running the show) is an incompetent buffoon. This action will have a negligible impact on the price of gas at the pump. He has fucked up again.

LGB.

So you believe that Biden is responsible for the worldwide rise in the price of oil even in countries that have energy policies that are more amicable to energy production than the US? This must require more mental gymnastics than I possess. Please elaborate.
 
This is purely driven by political decisions, not economic or strategic considerations. It shows the President (and Democrats) care but do not wish to act like communists.,
 
Biden (or whoever is running the show) is an incompetent buffoon. This action will have a negligible impact on the price of gas at the pump. He has fucked up again.

LGB.
Yes, releasing 7 million barrels of oil from the 714 million barrel reserve is going to be the end of the world. A cult like cult!

The biggest problem with Biden's action is that OPEC can wipe out its impact by announcing a million barrels reduction of their own production. They probably don't even have to reduce their production, just the announcement would keep the price of oil up.
 
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