Texas government now actively terrorizing families of trans kids

[Gun Nut]

What is happening in Alabama is even worse. Holy shit.

Alabama ban on gender-affirming care for transgender youth takes effect

The legislation makes it a crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison to provide puberty blockers, hormones and medical procedures to trans youth under 19.

www.nbcnews.com

[removed]

Would be great if we’d quit telling young people that there is something wrong with them that needs to be fixed.

A close friend of mine is very short... and married another very short person. They have a son that is far behind on his physical growth, and their pediatrician recommended growth hormones. The kid is like 7 years old. They have no idea if the kid is trans (does not seem so, so far, based on almost nothing at all). Would his treatment be illegal?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Federal judge strikes down Tennessee's transgender bathroom sign law

"Transgender Tennesseans are real. The businesses and establishments that wish to welcome them are real," District Judge Aleta A. Trauger wrote.

www.nbcnews.com

Here is another example of how the GOP really does not give a shit about anyone's liberty.

The government of Tennessee, which is currently "whatever lately crawled out of Donald Trump's Asshole," passed a law that would have forced businesses to post "warnings" if they had a policy allowing transgender people to use their bathrooms in accordance with their gender identity. This law would have imposed a demand on PRIVATE BUSINESSES, and it would have penalized them for just behaving respectfully toward some of their patrons.

The law was a reaction to a large, widespread fad, among hospitality services, of posting signs on their doors that designate their bathrooms as "all gender." It is becoming very common, especially at small family-owned restaurants and bars where the bathrooms are primarily single-occupancy. If you go into most major cities, you find this trend represented at the majority of trendy hangouts in the area.

Well, Tennessee's government was trying to interfere in how those people do business by forcing them to post "warnings," even though it is hard to NOT know that transgender people are there if the doors already have signs saying "all-gender restroom."

Warning: This bathroom doesn't kiss Bill Lee's ass.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

And it is time to do some serious mythbusting. In reality, detransitioning almost never happens:

First-of-its-kind study reveals transgender children are extremely unlikely to retransition

In a recent study of kids who transitioned before 12, 94 percent had not changed after five years.

www.inverse.com

In the few instances that it does, more than half of them still do not identify as cis-gender, and to me, this is just more evidence in favor of embracing and accepting non-binary gender identities. I think that would do more than anything else to reduce the likelihood of young people taking rash action. The remainder are in no worse conditions than the other 94% of those kids would have been without the intervention, actually better because surgery on transgender kids is extremely unusual.

 

[Jarhyn]

And it is time to do some serious mythbusting. In reality, detransitioning almost never happens:

First-of-its-kind study reveals transgender children are extremely unlikely to retransition

In a recent study of kids who transitioned before 12, 94 percent had not changed after five years.

www.inverse.com

In the few instances that it does, more than half of them still do not identify as cis-gender, and to me, this is just more evidence in favor of embracing and accepting non-binary gender identities. I think that would do more than anything else to reduce the likelihood of young people taking rash action. The remainder are in no worse conditions than the other 94% of those kids would have been without the intervention, actually better because surgery on transgender kids is extremely unusual.

YES! Honestly, for me, nonbinary means something very different for many. If people can accomplish their goals as pertains hormones without ascribing to common "masculine" and "feminine" archetypes, more power to them.

 

[Rhea]

Sigma and Jarhyn, I think you misunderstood my comment and you definitely misunderstood my position on trans people.

Yes. It is actually unusual for doctors to prescribe anything stronger than puberty blockers,

I agree with you on this. It is rare. And it’s rare for a reason. The normal therapeutic path is sufficient in most cases.

but in cases where they do, the differences is usually the patient and not the doctor.

And the rare cases have reasons. And I consider them to be generally valid. (Language meant to imply, “I don’t need to know the reasons, I trust them to be a description of something that indicates the normal therapeutic path won’t work but something needs to work for the good of the patient.”)

If a patient prescribes full HRT to a 14 year old, then the reality behind that is often a young transgender person that has been seriously raising hell and making noise in order to get it. If doctors prescribe full HRT to a minor, then it is usually because it is the only way the kid will stop perseverating on it long enough to learn their algebra.

And that valid and serious reason is not algebra.

… that doesn’t seem like a terribly solid argument for it…

Transgender kids actually do tend to suffer in their grades if not treated early, though. This a serious problem because it can be harder for many of them to establish good careers later.

But this argument struck me as a flippant and even disrespectful argument for identifying a severe case of something wrong. There are better arguments. Passing algebra isn’t one. That was my point. It’s flip and inconsequential. It’s something that happens regularly and for myriad reasons. So to pull it out as a way to help people understand why the rare case of non-standard treatment is needed makes it a poor argument. A better argument, IMHO would be relationships, loss of interest in even hobbies, any of the many signs and symptoms of distress that are not common and manifest from minor and transitory anxieties.

The place where I suffered was in my grades. An entrenched cynicism and also the amplified need to escape, mentally, from an intolerable reality was a serious problem. Even in college, I ended up doing better in online courses than in person, and unfortunately, I only came to that late.

The bolded is a better argument.

@Rhea Many people here have the mistaken impression that the care given to transgender youth is one-size-fits all.

I am not mistaken in that. I already understand that. Failing algebra struck me as a poor support for arguing it.

Puberty-blockers are not always adequate, and I think it would be reckless and irresponsible to insist on visible self-injury as the only possible justification in moving beyond it. That is like sending a message to kids, "if you want to start HRT, you have to earn it by cutting yourself." That is monstrous, but that is the message you would send.

I did not intend to imply cutting was the only argument that seemed sound. There are other forms of self harm includng reclusive behavior and other forms of stress. My bad for using a loaded term. I did not intend that.

And maybe you do not remember being a kid very well. I do. Lagging grades are usually a sign of a stressed-out student.

I failed Algebra. I remember it quite well, thanks.
And of all the things going on, failing algebra was a poor argument for significant abnormal intervention.
It’s a good signal for getting help and intervention. But it does not strike me as the argument for the EXTREME intervention of a deviation from standard care.

You gave the example as a reason for a non-normal, radical departure from typical treatment.

Grades are a beginning, IMH (personally failing algebra as a highschooler) O, not an end.

Doctors do not perform gender affirming surgeries on minors anymore than doctors perform "third trimester" abortions.

Yep. Rare, special circumstances, "if you had been there, you would understand." Even I would feel weird about doing surgery on a kid, but if a doctor did recommend it, I would be more inclined than otherwise to think there was good reason.

I agree that it is clearly rare and that there are circumstances I can imagine, and likely many I can’t, that justify the decision as a best path for the patient.

I was simply observing that “so they can stop perseverating and pass algebra” does not strike me as a good way to convey the gravity of the situation.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

@Rhea

To be clear, it is the surgery that is rare to be done on youth.

HRT, if I understand correctly, is something that any transgender kid can get, but for them to get it, they have to go through years of therapy, consultation, and therapy visitations. I don't know the whole process, which is why I asked @Playball40 to try to describe it to you. To call it "rare" is a bit of a stretch. It is true that not all patients and their families have the intestinal fortitude to go through the whole process, but it is a process that, theoretically, anyone could get through if they wanted to do so, at least in respectable metro areas. I have no doubt that you can find benighted places, in the US, where transgender kids have few or no options. In a respectable metro area, though, the process is very involved, and there is extensive communication at all stages.

I still had to go see the doctor multiple times and get a tremendous amount of bloodwork done before I could start getting HRT as an adult. It was a tremendous amount of time spent in a doctor's office, and I am still being called in to see her every three months almost a year later. I would be shocked if a kid received less attention.

If a large proportion of transgender youth stay on puberty blockers until they are adults, then a large part of why is that it is normal for kids to be reluctant to close off their options. That is just being a normal kid, transgender or not. Therefore, puberty blockers do tend to be popular. It's not because they are restricted to only being allowed to take puberty blockers, though, but it's because getting more than just the puberty blockers before they are adults is just a higher commitment. That is just kids being kids, and transgender kids are still just kids.

As far as arguments, I still respectfully disagree with you in terms of the importance of grades. I consider sagging grades to be an important indicator of stress. I had struggles in school because I was under a tremendous amount of stress, and I was not a flunkie type of personality. I was always a dedicated intellectual from when I was 7 years old. The stress that I was under was a serious impairment in my ability to engage fully in what I was doing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And it is time to do some serious mythbusting. In reality, detransitioning almost never happens:

First-of-its-kind study reveals transgender children are extremely unlikely to retransition

In a recent study of kids who transitioned before 12, 94 percent had not changed after five years.

www.inverse.com

In the few instances that it does, more than half of them still do not identify as cis-gender, and to me, this is just more evidence in favor of embracing and accepting non-binary gender identities. I think that would do more than anything else to reduce the likelihood of young people taking rash action. The remainder are in no worse conditions than the other 94% of those kids would have been without the intervention, actually better because surgery on transgender kids is extremely unusual.

6% isn't "almost never" in my book.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

And it is time to do some serious mythbusting. In reality, detransitioning almost never happens:

First-of-its-kind study reveals transgender children are extremely unlikely to retransition

In a recent study of kids who transitioned before 12, 94 percent had not changed after five years.

www.inverse.com

In the few instances that it does, more than half of them still do not identify as cis-gender, and to me, this is just more evidence in favor of embracing and accepting non-binary gender identities. I think that would do more than anything else to reduce the likelihood of young people taking rash action. The remainder are in no worse conditions than the other 94% of those kids would have been without the intervention, actually better because surgery on transgender kids is extremely unusual.

6% isn't "almost never" in my book.

You are mistaken. It is 2.5%. Read more closely.

The remaining 3.5% actually identified as gender non-binary.

 

[Rhea]

As far as arguments, I still respectfully disagree with you in terms of the importance of grades. I consider sagging grades to be an important indicator of stress. I had struggles in school because I was under a tremendous amount of stress, and I was not a flunkie type of personality. I was always a dedicated intellectual from when I was 7 years old. The stress that I was under was a serious impairment in my ability to engage fully in what I was doing.

I was not a flunky type personality, either. I graduated top of my 8th grade class, bottom (well, 3rd to bottom) of my high school class, including an F in the afore-mentioned algebra, and then top again (#1 in my major) in my college class, after a 5 year haitus from school to manage the issues.

I’m not just speaking out of my ass.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

As far as arguments, I still respectfully disagree with you in terms of the importance of grades. I consider sagging grades to be an important indicator of stress. I had struggles in school because I was under a tremendous amount of stress, and I was not a flunkie type of personality. I was always a dedicated intellectual from when I was 7 years old. The stress that I was under was a serious impairment in my ability to engage fully in what I was doing.

I was not a flunky type personality, either. I graduated top of my 8th grade class, bottom (well, 3rd to bottom) of my high school class, including an F in the afore-mentioned algebra, and then top again (#1 in my major) in my college class, after a 5 year haitus from school to manage the issues.

I’m not just speaking out of my ass.

Besides being transgender, I personally was diagnosed with Tourettes. The schools that I went to had a history of violently abusing kids with disabilities. When I resisted physically when physically grabbed, they put me into a set of trailers behind my middle school with kids that had a history of violent behavior, some of whom had been in and out of prison, and the little education provided there was not intended for people that were believed to have higher academic aspirations in their future. I was also having a severe bad reaction to SSRI medication (retrospectively, I had symptoms of serotonin syndrome, including minor hallucinations, on a daily basis), and I was not able to think clearly until I stopped taking the drug at 14 over the loud objections of my parents (who saw it as a means of controlling me because it caused me to stare blankly off into space for hours due to the intense mental confusion caused by the drug, and they took this to be "docility" when I was really just trying to work my way through the ceaseless and fetid sauna clouds in my head), and then, in spite of ongoing struggles with mood regulation (a little present leftover from being kept on that drug during a sensitive part of my development) and my high degree of frustration and disenchantment with the system, I tried to repair some of the damage. Since I was living in a rural backwater where it is hard to get work unless you "know somebody," which I didn't and which my father had no intention whatsoever of helping me with (he wouldn't recommend me to any of his friends because he literally believed I was destined for a group home or a prison cell, which he told me outright and without pretense), it took me a couple of years after that before the violence in my parents' household drove me to take desperate and dangerous action to change my situation, which led to a period of intermittent homelessness and spending long time-periods on short commons, and I still could not get hired because I came across to hiring managers as damaged and probably dangerous (of which I was only the first). I eventually found out that it's easier to get odd jobs if you came across, at first meeting, as weird because someone is a lot more willing to make a small, non-binding investment in someone they feel sorry for, so being "crazy to the point of being kind of adorable" worked well for that. If you are looking for an employment contract and a wage, running around on all fours and claiming loudly to be a dragon is career suicide. If someone needs you to dig up a row of small trees with a three foot shovel and a mattock for 60 bucks and then you can prove that you can do it in six hours of sweaty labor, you can run around on all fours all you like. Three uprooted trees lying next to you is all the advertisement you need. I was called back often because I proved to be as strong as Babe, the Blue Ox and about as dependable (it turns out that reasonably high conscientiousness is one of my traits, after all), but then the recession hit, which led to more short commons and--due to serious malnutrition that had me emaciated (I was down to a 28 inch waist from my usual, almost unchanging 34) and suffering from serious, life-threatening infections--more academic struggles. I ended up with a regular employer, post-recession, that had a small farm, which he had inherited, that he needed someone to help him get into better repair. That paid for my room, board, and college education. I eventually did end up completing university when I was 31, but to my credit, I ended up with a marketable bachelor of science degree.

It's still not the same as being skipped ahead two grades. having a four-year degree before you're old enough to purchase alcohol, and getting hired straight out of college for a six-figure salary, but it makes an interesting story.

I believe it might have sounded flippant when I said, "so they can focus on their algebra," but I said that because I really fully understand how difficult it is to focus on achievement when one's achievement, every day, is still being willing to face the next day. I would have been glad if normal academic challenges had been my worst problem, when I was growing up. I have had people tell me, "You can't know how an alternate history would have been," but I do. I see that alternate history all the time in young people that do better than I did because they are treated better, and every one of them that does is a victory for me. That is my self-interest motive: every additional transgender kid--or kid with a weird disability--that does better than I did, as a consequence of parents, doctors, and educators being better informed about their needs, is like a rematch that I just keep winning. It's something on paper, which has meaning, that proves we are worth that small investment of understanding and toleration.

That is arguably a context that someone that does not know me could not possibly understand, and I would agree that the remark could come across sounding peculiar to somebody that did not understand that context about the person saying it.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

@Rhea That three years that I was taken out of the regular student population still bothers me, to this day. It was not just I being treated in this way, but that school ended up in multiple serious lawsuits for violent and strange abuse against kids with disabilities. The fact that I resisted was something that I was punished for by being denied the full benefit of an education, and as a kid that was highly interested in intellectual self-advancement, my rage over that never quite faded. I lost faith in the system, and the system deserved for me to lack faith in it.

My personal victory is that I emerged alive and eventually completed my education. The more collective victory is when educators that physically abuse kids are imprisoned rather than lauded and the child punished for objecting, neurologically diverse youth are treated like people, queer kids have dense networks of social support to draw on, transgender kids can find out at the start of puberty that there is nothing perverted or wrong about their feelings, and their parents are ready to help, regardless of religion or politics.

So in that context, does it make sense if I would say that I will be damn happy when the only thing a kid like I has to stress about is her grade in algebra? Actually, that was easy for me. I really struggled in ELP, which was just disorganized, nonsensical, and irrational.

I am prepared to acknowledge that it could be taken the wrong way without personal context, but with that personal context established, I think it is a respectable sentiment.

 

[Gospel]

I know people that regretted having an abortion. This is absolutely NOT A REASON to make it illegal for everyone else.

Cosigned

 

[Gospel]

Thanks for sharing SigmetheZeta. That was deep. I do have hope that society as a whole would learn to work as hard as we can together to get things right instead of pigeon-holing according to what caters to our beliefs. Sometimes doing what is right is doing what is uncomfortable.

 

[Jarhyn]

Speaking of "desistance", there are some things about being outside the normal binary that might also be clouding that measure. We are talking about minorities <3% here.

I know of the NB folks I have encountered, some sizable portion can only get what they want, the right mix of hormones and alterations upon their gonads, by doing something that would, statistically, look a lot like desistance: getting genital modification surgeries and going back on testosterone.

They didn't desist, though? So it would be interesting to see the question answered of what is being counted as a desistance.

I know of at least one man that got castrated and went back on testosterone because he wanted to be castrated, not because he was in any way trans.

I wouldn't call that cisgender, either though.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

Speaking of "desistance", there are some things about being outside the normal binary that might also be clouding that measure. We are talking about minorities <3% here.

I know of the NB folks I have encountered, some sizable portion can only get what they want, the right mix of hormones and alterations upon their gonads, by doing something that would, statistically, look a lot like desistance: getting genital modification surgeries and going back on testosterone.

They didn't desist, though? So it would be interesting to see the question answered of what is being counted as a desistance.

I know of at least one man that got castrated and went back on testosterone because he wanted to be castrated, not because he was in any way trans.

I wouldn't call that cisgender, either though.

I am really not entirely sure about my level of enthusiasm to get myself gelded, personally. A part of me would only really be keen on it if it were possible to give me a functioning uterus from which I could bear offspring, and that were part of the deal. I otherwise would have to think about whether or not I really wanted "bottom surgery" at all. I am not necessarily against it, but it is not a settled "yes," either.

Then again, who knows what sort of Satanic demon-spawn I would produce? Perhaps the world is not ready.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And it is time to do some serious mythbusting. In reality, detransitioning almost never happens:

First-of-its-kind study reveals transgender children are extremely unlikely to retransition

In a recent study of kids who transitioned before 12, 94 percent had not changed after five years.

www.inverse.com

In the few instances that it does, more than half of them still do not identify as cis-gender, and to me, this is just more evidence in favor of embracing and accepting non-binary gender identities. I think that would do more than anything else to reduce the likelihood of young people taking rash action. The remainder are in no worse conditions than the other 94% of those kids would have been without the intervention, actually better because surgery on transgender kids is extremely unusual.

6% isn't "almost never" in my book.

You are mistaken. It is 2.5%. Read more closely.

The remaining 3.5% actually identified as gender non-binary.

"Non-binary" doesn't mean that anything irreversible was the right course of action. And 2.5% is still not "almost never" in my book. Puberty blockers and live as your preferred gender, fine. Surgery--only after living as the other gender for some time.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

And it is time to do some serious mythbusting. In reality, detransitioning almost never happens:

First-of-its-kind study reveals transgender children are extremely unlikely to retransition

In a recent study of kids who transitioned before 12, 94 percent had not changed after five years.

www.inverse.com

In the few instances that it does, more than half of them still do not identify as cis-gender, and to me, this is just more evidence in favor of embracing and accepting non-binary gender identities. I think that would do more than anything else to reduce the likelihood of young people taking rash action. The remainder are in no worse conditions than the other 94% of those kids would have been without the intervention, actually better because surgery on transgender kids is extremely unusual.

6% isn't "almost never" in my book.

You are mistaken. It is 2.5%. Read more closely.

The remaining 3.5% actually identified as gender non-binary.

"Non-binary" doesn't mean that anything irreversible was the right course of action. And 2.5% is still not "almost never" in my book. Puberty blockers and live as your preferred gender, fine. Surgery--only after living as the other gender for some time.

Actually, the progression goes more like this for young people:

1) "Social affirmation" only at the start, which could mean a new name, new pronouns, clothes, or whatever other parts of life happen to go with being one gender or the other in a particular culture. And years of seeing therapists that keep track of the kid's welfare.

2) Puberty blockers at the normal start of puberty and more seeing therapists to make sure the kid is happy with this. Right now, I am a late-transitioning transgender adult, and I still have to see my doctor every three months, having started in June. That is for an ADULT. I would be surprised if a kid that was taking puberty blockers saw a doctor or therapist less often than that, and I would suspect more, probably monthly.

3) Slowly adding hormone-replacement therapy (HRT) drugs like, in the case of male-to-female transgender youth, estradiol, spironolactone, and progesterone. These are added slowly. More seeing therapists and doctors. Lots more. I hope you are insured. By the way, progesterone is really expensive shit.

As for why it might sometimes be necessary to move a kid beyond puberty blockers to slowly putting them on HRT, one example could be, in the case of a transgender boy, where he feels like his peers do not respect him or take him seriously because he still has a "squeaky child voice." I had a constitutional growth delay, which had a similar effect to being on puberty blockers, and while this might have saved my life in light of the fact that I was transgender on top of having other problems, I know all too well what it is like to look younger than my actual age while in school.

However, the decision to move on to full HRT drugs would be made with the extensive consultation of doctors and therapists. There are probably at least three professionals involved, though some doctors can do the work of two: the family doctor or pediatrician, the endocrinologist, and the therapist. There could be more, depending on your local healthcare system. Furthermore, teachers, school administrators, and other parents are generally aware of the kid's situation. There are many adults at once that are monitoring this situation at the same time.

Furthermore, the majority of parents of transgender kids really feel very uncomfortable with the entire matter. I think that I have proved to any reasonable person's satisfaction that transgender kids are probably born, not made, in other threads. Imagine any politically moderate family, probably with a moderately agnostic but not necessarily atheist dad and a kinda-sorta religiously observant mom that secretly just likes the social scene at the local church and at heart is probably more skeptical than the dad. Put them down as being as politically, ideologically, and religiously moderate as anybody that you can possibly imagine.

And then imagine those people's horror when it turns out that their kid has utterly rejected their birth sex. They do not come around easily on the subject. In fact, the only reason why they eventually do is that, after seeing multiple psychologists, doctors, and faith healers, they eventually settle on gender-affirming care as the only solution that is going to work. This is often only done AFTER alternative methods fail to bear fruit or result in self-injury behavior by the child.

It is a very hard situation for parents to be in, and the assumption that they arrive at the decision to start giving their child drugs lightly is deeply unfair to the families that actually have to do the job of raising these kids.

These decisions are made after years of therapy and consulting with multiple professionals. They are complex decisions, and they are not one-size-fits-all.

In reality, surgery on a kid is not on anybody's minds, in almost every case.

 

[Jarhyn]

Surgery--only after living as the other gender for some time.

hey Loren, what about for folks who are only discordant about the shape of their genitals, but not about their gender?

I get "adults only" but this law bans the procedure even of 19 year olds.

I know a number of men who have had a pseudovagina installed or who are preparing to?

I don't think that genital configurations or reassignments need to be or even ought be gated behind gender behaviors.

I shouldn't need to want to be "a woman" to want to not be affected by testosterone, either.

Should these people be forced to live as a gender they are not?

It is exactly this segment that I am arguing throws off "desistance" figures on account of the fact that for at least some significant portion of them look like desisters: folks who get GRS and medicate to their original hormone levels.

It's why I'm asking where these figures come from and how they were calculated.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And it is time to do some serious mythbusting. In reality, detransitioning almost never happens:

First-of-its-kind study reveals transgender children are extremely unlikely to retransition

In a recent study of kids who transitioned before 12, 94 percent had not changed after five years.

www.inverse.com

In the few instances that it does, more than half of them still do not identify as cis-gender, and to me, this is just more evidence in favor of embracing and accepting non-binary gender identities. I think that would do more than anything else to reduce the likelihood of young people taking rash action. The remainder are in no worse conditions than the other 94% of those kids would have been without the intervention, actually better because surgery on transgender kids is extremely unusual.

6% isn't "almost never" in my book.

You are mistaken. It is 2.5%. Read more closely.

The remaining 3.5% actually identified as gender non-binary.

"Non-binary" doesn't mean that anything irreversible was the right course of action. And 2.5% is still not "almost never" in my book. Puberty blockers and live as your preferred gender, fine. Surgery--only after living as the other gender for some time.

Actually, the progression goes more like this for young people:

1) "Social affirmation" only at the start, which could mean a new name, new pronouns, clothes, or whatever other parts of life happen to go with being one gender or the other in a particular culture. And years of seeing therapists that keep track of the kid's welfare.

2) Puberty blockers at the normal start of puberty and more seeing therapists to make sure the kid is happy with this. Right now, I am a late-transitioning transgender adult, and I still have to see my doctor every three months, having started in June. That is for an ADULT. I would be surprised if a kid that was taking puberty blockers saw a doctor or therapist less often than that, and I would suspect more, probably monthly.

Yeah, that's what I would favor.

3) Slowly adding hormone-replacement therapy (HRT) drugs like, in the case of male-to-female transgender youth, estradiol, spironolactone, and progesterone. These are added slowly. More seeing therapists and doctors. Lots more. I hope you are insured. By the way, progesterone is really expensive shit.

Huh? Expensive? Something different than what's commonly used for post-menopausal hormone replacement??

 

[Metaphor]

Yes. It is actually unusual for doctors to prescribe anything stronger than puberty blockers, but in cases where they do, the differences is usually the patient and not the doctor. If a patient prescribes full HRT to a 14 year old, then the reality behind that is often a young transgender person that has been seriously raising hell and making noise in order to get it. If doctors prescribe full HRT to a minor, then it is usually because it is the only way the kid will stop perseverating on it long enough to learn their algebra.

… that doesn’t seem like a terribly solid argument for it…

Transgender kids actually do tend to suffer in their grades if not treated early, though. This a serious problem because it can be harder for many of them to establish good careers later.

Self-harm is a big problem, but it is not the only problem that occurs in transgender kids. It was never a problem for me in spite of my other challenges and an abusive family environmemt on top of that.

The place where I suffered was in my grades. An entrenched cynicism and also the amplified need to escape, mentally, from an intolerable reality was a serious problem. Even in college, I ended up doing better in online courses than in person, and unfortunately, I only came to that late.

I get that grades suffer. It just doesn’t seem like a solid reason to move from reversible hormone blocker to irreversible surgery in younger trans kids.

Algebra can be fixed.

Your initial point, or Loren’s, I think, was that for minor children, it is highly unusual to use surgical or non-reversible therapies. Which seems appropriate and logical to most audiences, even those who do not understand trans needs.

But the follow up point, that this can be discarded if grades are suffering, does not strike me as a strong supporting argument. If a therapy is not recommended, then grades does not seem like a good reason to override that, in my personal opinion.

Self harm moves that needle, but not grades.

Doctors do not perform gender affirming surgeries on minors anymore than doctors perform "third trimester" abortions.

That is false. Mastectomies have been performed, for gender-affirming reasons, in the United States on girls as young as 13.