The reasoning behind the age of consent

[Bar-Jesus]

Isn't that the same thing that can be said for the increasingly strong and available porn? Except that this may actually have some truth to it. It you only had 1950s era strength porn would that lead to more or less real life sex?

Can't see it making any difference, in fact when I tell girls in the bar about the great hardcore porno sites I've been checking out, I tend to get far less of the real thing, not sure why, maybe I'd better talk about the soft porn sites instead

 

[Dekusta]

Its not dogma, its biological reality. Girls enter puberty an average of 2 years before boys, with 50% of US girls starting breast development before age 10 and menstruation by age 12. Few boys show signs of puberty before age 12, with the average age being 14. Note that breast development occurs 1-2 years earlier now than it did when you grew up, possibly due to nutritional and obesity differences.
Keep in mind that the same hormones that trigger body changes, change the brain too.

Female brains develop more rapidly during adolescence.
[P]"Using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) we found robust male/female differences in the shapes of trajectories with total cerebral volume peaking at age 10.5 in females
and 14.5 in males. White matter increases throughout this 24-year period with males having a steeper rate of increase during adolescence. Both cortical and subcortical gray matter trajectories follow an inverted U shaped path with peak sizes 1 to 2 years earlier in females.

...
Brain development (growth in total cerebral volume) complete at an average age of 22 in females and 30 in males. " [/P]

And a ton of research shows this brain development corresponds with development in emotional control, reasoning, impulsive behavior, and risk taking.

It might be pragmatically or politically too difficult, but scientifically supported argument could be made for granting girls rights and responsibilities ( supervising younger kids, driving, sex, voting, drinking) at earlier ages than boys. That isn't the basis for anti-gay consent laws, but gender differences in maturity development are very real.

You don't think anti-gay consent arguments based on maturity difference could be supported by these findings? That and anti-gay "homosexuality is bad" argument based on the fact that gays attracted to teens or twinks are in fact attracted to boys who aren't ready, while straight men attracted to teen girls are in fact attracted to mature girls.

 

[Dekusta]

if anything, the law should have been the other way around, I mean just how exactly can a man get pregnant by playing with another man's dick?

They are at higher risks of contracting STD's. If you're talking about modern attempts to change age of consent.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Its not dogma, its biological reality. Girls enter puberty an average of 2 years before boys, with 50% of US girls starting breast development before age 10 and menstruation by age 12. Few boys show signs of puberty before age 12, with the average age being 14. Note that breast development occurs 1-2 years earlier now than it did when you grew up, possibly due to nutritional and obesity differences.
Keep in mind that the same hormones that trigger body changes, change the brain too.

Female brains develop more rapidly during adolescence.
[P]"Using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) we found robust male/female differences in the shapes of trajectories with total cerebral volume peaking at age 10.5 in females
and 14.5 in males. White matter increases throughout this 24-year period with males having a steeper rate of increase during adolescence. Both cortical and subcortical gray matter trajectories follow an inverted U shaped path with peak sizes 1 to 2 years earlier in females.

...
Brain development (growth in total cerebral volume) complete at an average age of 22 in females and 30 in males. " [/P]

And a ton of research shows this brain development corresponds with development in emotional control, reasoning, impulsive behavior, and risk taking.

It might be pragmatically or politically too difficult, but scientifically supported argument could be made for granting girls rights and responsibilities ( supervising younger kids, driving, sex, voting, drinking) at earlier ages than boys. That isn't the basis for anti-gay consent laws, but gender differences in maturity development are very real.

You don't think anti-gay consent arguments based on maturity difference could be supported by these findings? That and anti-gay "homosexuality is bad" argument based on the fact that gays attracted to teens or twinks are in fact attracted to boys who aren't ready, while straight men attracted to teen girls are in fact attracted to mature girls.

Why would that matter? If the scientific research supports a position, then the fact that certain groups would try and abuse the scientific research to advance their cause doesn't change the fact that the scientific research supports that position.

 

[ronburgundy]

Its not dogma, its biological reality. Girls enter puberty an average of 2 years before boys, with 50% of US girls starting breast development before age 10 and menstruation by age 12. Few boys show signs of puberty before age 12, with the average age being 14. Note that breast development occurs 1-2 years earlier now than it did when you grew up, possibly due to nutritional and obesity differences.
Keep in mind that the same hormones that trigger body changes, change the brain too.

Female brains develop more rapidly during adolescence.
[P]"Using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) we found robust male/female differences in the shapes of trajectories with total cerebral volume peaking at age 10.5 in females
and 14.5 in males. White matter increases throughout this 24-year period with males having a steeper rate of increase during adolescence. Both cortical and subcortical gray matter trajectories follow an inverted U shaped path with peak sizes 1 to 2 years earlier in females.

...
Brain development (growth in total cerebral volume) complete at an average age of 22 in females and 30 in males. " [/P]

And a ton of research shows this brain development corresponds with development in emotional control, reasoning, impulsive behavior, and risk taking.

It might be pragmatically or politically too difficult, but scientifically supported argument could be made for granting girls rights and responsibilities ( supervising younger kids, driving, sex, voting, drinking) at earlier ages than boys. That isn't the basis for anti-gay consent laws, but gender differences in maturity development are very real.

You don't think anti-gay consent arguments based on maturity difference could be supported by these findings? That and anti-gay "homosexuality is bad" argument based on the fact that gays attracted to teens or twinks are in fact attracted to boys who aren't ready, while straight men attracted to teen girls are in fact attracted to mature girls.

These findings could support higher consent age for males in general, not gay sex specifically. Note, there are gay women, and there is straight sex where the male is the younger one. Thus, a general law for higher age for gay sex creates tons of false positives and false negatives, if the claimed goal is to protect immature males.
Thus, such a law would only be motivated by anti-gay bigotry, regardless of whether these findings were deliberately abused to claim support for them.

 

[ronburgundy]

BTW,

African-Americans (both male and female) appear to enter puberty 6-9 months younger than other groups (not only US groups, but worldwide).
Some of this phenomena has been linked to higher obesity rates, which seems to trigger early onset.

Regardless of cause, it seems a fact worth bearing in mind when trying to understand greater teen pregnancy rates, in addition to other contributing factors like SES. Put simply the earlier girls start puberty, the younger they start sex and younger they are at first pregnancy.

 

[Bar-Jesus]

They are at higher risks of contracting STD's. If you're talking about modern attempts to change age of consent.

yeah right, and like the gay bashers are just soooooooo concerned about the health of gay men

 

[whichphilosophy]

I just finished watching "The Imitation Game". Immediatly after, I did some research on Alan Turing's life and about this 19 year old he had sex with.
That's when I came across this article by an Antifeminist blog:

http://www.returnofkings.com/26006/...t-another-attack-against-male-heterosexuality

Feminism debate aside, here's the interesting quote:
"Homosexuality was decriminalized in 1967 but with a higher age of consent (21) than for heterosexuals. It was then lowered to 18 in 1994 and finally ‘equalized’ in the year 2000. Does an unequal age of consent discriminate against homosexuals? First of all, as we know that the legal system effectively treats the age of consent as applying only to male ‘predators’, then we should not see an unequal age of consent as being between homosexuals and heterosexuals, but rather as applying different ages for boys and girls. And this inequality does have the rationality of recognizing the established truth that teenage boys develop significantly slower towards their physical, sexual, and psychological maturity than do teenage girls. Unequal treatment based upon sex or ‘sexual orientation’ is not discriminatory if it discriminates upon the basis of a relevant difference. As emotional and sexual maturity is the primary justification for the age of consent in the first place, the scientific fact that boys reach maturity later than girls means that, actually, an equal age of consent discriminates against heterosexuals.

We should also note the ‘imbalance in power’ that existed between Alan Turing, 40 year old computer genius and professor of mathematics, and his 19 year old sex partner – a mere labourer. This is the other, related, feminist justification for the age of consent, and it does not shine a favourable moral light upon Turing’s relationship with the boy".

While 'quicker' is not the word I'd use, we do know that girls' brains starts maturing earlier than boys'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...mature-quicker-than-boys-scientists-find.html

Do you think this justifies different ages of consent?
Girl's brains start maturing at the age of 10. Is the correct age the one which the brain is completely mature or the one which it starts the process? Does the former even exist?

I made the same questions on a brazillian board, and one of the readers think this justifies the conservative negative view on homossexuality. Roughly translating:

"Think of it, a straight man and a gay man are attracted to teenagers around the age of 15-19. While the straight man is in fact attracted to mentally and sexually mature individuals, the same cannot be said about the gay man. Since it is natural for straights and gays to be attracted to teenagers around this age, this shows that homosexuality is somehow negative".

What are your thoughts on the matter? Please let me know.

The age of consent is what it says.
It is the age where parental or guardian permission is no longer required for signing contracts having sex getting married.
Some people may well be irresponsible at even 25, but the law deems this is the age they are allowed to make decisions as mentioned. It would be too complex to try and evaluate if someone at 20 is still not qualified for the age of consent. It would also be pointless and a waste of time with perhaps different evaluations from the 'evaluators.'

 

[Dekusta]

They are at higher risks of contracting STD's. If you're talking about modern attempts to change age of consent.

yeah right, and like the gay bashers are just soooooooo concerned about the health of gay men

No they're not. But they like the fact anyways, because they think it supports their assumptions that gays are promiscuous sex-driven sinners.

 

[Dekusta]

It is the age where parental or guardian permission is no longer required for signing contracts having sex getting married.
Some people may well be irresponsible at even 25, but the law deems this is the age they are allowed to make decisions as mentioned. It would be too complex to try and evaluate if someone at 20 is still not qualified for the age of consent. It would also be pointless and a waste of time with perhaps different evaluations from the 'evaluators.'

It seems that although we know when the process of brain maturity begins, we don't know when it reaches a level satisfying enough for assuming an individual is in conditions to bear these responsibilities.

Someone might suggest the age where the process of brain maturity is complete. However, as previously mentioned by ronburgundy, this would be 22 for girls and 30 for boys, and 6-9 months earlier than that in case they're black. It seems counterintuitive to say the least.

The brazillian guy who answered me made an argument that fails for this reason precisely, since the evidence suggests that girls mature faster than boys and not that teen girls are satisfactorily mature (while teen boys are not) which seems to be where his conclusion is based.

 

[couch_sloth]

It is the age where parental or guardian permission is no longer required for signing contracts having sex getting married.
Some people may well be irresponsible at even 25, but the law deems this is the age they are allowed to make decisions as mentioned. It would be too complex to try and evaluate if someone at 20 is still not qualified for the age of consent. It would also be pointless and a waste of time with perhaps different evaluations from the 'evaluators.'

It seems that although we know when the process of brain maturity begins, we don't know when it reaches a level satisfying enough for assuming an individual is in conditions to bear these responsibilities.

Someone might suggest the age where the process of brain maturity is complete. However, as previously mentioned by ronburgundy, this would be 22 for girls and 30 for boys, and 6-9 months earlier than that in case they're black. It seems counterintuitive to say the least.

The brazillian guy who answered me made an argument that fails for this reason precisely, since the evidence suggests that girls mature faster than boys and not that teen girls are satisfactorily mature (while teen boys are not) which seems to be where his conclusion is based.

It's not just the biological maturing of the brain. I think that many American 20-21 year olds have unrealistic expectations about relationships and life in general. At this point in life many of them have lead relatively pampered lives.
150 years ago, kids in the U.S. often did 'adult work' by the time they were 9 yrs old (e.g. On the family farm, or in a factory). Back then, the average 15 year old's expectations were probably more realistic than today's 20 year olds.