The Slayers of the Dream

[AthenaAwakened]

THE SLAYERS OF THE DREAM

When Dr. King and the rest of the delegation from the Montgomery Improvement Association went to their first meeting with Montgomery public officials and representatives of the bus company, they went there with a proposal, a pragmatic and realistic one. They wanted a more humane form of segregation. That was the sensible thing to do. After all, segregation couldn't be ended, not in the South, certainly not in Alabama. That would be an idealistic thing to even propose, a pipe dream with no hope of success. Work within the system and incremental change will come and eventually we will get to place more comfortable in which to live.

By the time of King's assassination, de jure segregation of public facilities and services was a thing of the past. Not because King and all his fellow activists worked within the system, but because they tore the system down. Pursuit of the ideal and not acceptance of the status quo, a demand for fairness now and not a wish for change that some day may come; these are the actions that led to real justice and a closer realization of what our nation could and should be.

Every movement around the world and throughout the course of history that has propelled us as a species toward the aspirations of the better angels of our natures has first had to fight its way through a cacophony of calls and screeches of "No, you ask too much," and "You need to be more practical, more pragmatic," and "If you just work within the system and be patient, things will get better."

What if we don't want things to get better, but to get right? What if instead of choosing a slow poison or a quick one, we choose not to be contaminated at any speed? What if we have chosen to stand and fight not follow and beg? The time is always NOW to do the right thing, The time is always NOW to fight against corruption. The time is always NOW to change things for the better.

There is no better time than now, because justice delayed is justice denied and simply because a thing has been and been for a long time does not mean it can never cease to be.

Slavery ceased
Female disenfranchisement ceased
The Laws of Jim Crow ceased.

And all because everyday people chose the time to be now, the place to be here and the people to be us.

It saddens me that so many who claim as their legacy the acts of ancestors who chose here and now as the place and time to fight for what was right and righteous, now lend their voices to cries for pragmatism, practicality and passivity.

 

[Jarhyn]

Being right, right now.

THE SLAYERS OF THE DREAM

When Dr. King and the rest of the delegation from the Montgomery Improvement Association went to their first meeting with Montgomery public officials and representatives of the bus company, they went there with a proposal, a pragmatic and realistic one. They wanted a more humane form of segregation. That was the sensible thing to do. After all, segregation couldn't be ended, not in the South, certainly not in Alabama. That would be an idealistic thing to even propose, a pipe dream with no hope of success. Work within the system and incremental change will come and eventually we will get to place more comfortable in which to live.

By the time of King's assassination, de jure segregation of public facilities and services was a thing of the past. Not because King and all his fellow activists worked within the system, but because they tore the system down. Pursuit of the ideal and not acceptance of the status quo, a demand for fairness now and not a wish for change that some day may come; these are the actions that led to real justice and a closer realization of what our nation could and should be.

Every movement around the world and throughout the course of history that has propelled us as a species toward the aspirations of the better angels of our natures has first had to fight its way through a cacophony of calls and screeches of "No, you ask too much," and "You need to be more practical, more pragmatic," and "If you just work within the system and be patient, things will get better."

What if we don't want things to get better, but to get right? What if instead of choosing a slow poison or a quick one, we choose not to be contaminated at any speed? What if we have chosen to stand and fight not follow and beg? The time is always NOW to do the right thing, The time is always NOW to fight against corruption. The time is always NOW to change things for the better.

There is no better time than now, because justice delayed is justice denied and simply because a thing has been and been for a long time does not mean it can never cease to be.

Slavery ceased
Female disenfranchisement ceased
The Laws of Jim Crow ceased.

And all because everyday people chose the time to be now, the place to be here and the people to be us.

It saddens me that so many who claim as their legacy the acts of ancestors who chose here and now as the place and time to fight for what was right and righteous, now lend their voices to cries for pragmatism, practicality and passivity.

I have always been a proponent of this principle. Since the days I joined, I recall always arguing that the correct response to any problem is to "be right, right now", though usually more verbosely.

Recently I was asked in a foolish post what my "real goals" were with regards to some thing. Trans rights, I think, though it isn't pertinent to this thread. The assumption by this right winger, in a moment of surprisingly honest confusion and curiosity, was that I was not being genuine about my goals with regards to the topic.

The fact is, I haven't been saying much different from when I got here, some craziness aside. I still think that marriage equality would be best served by removing all language concerning "marriage" from the civil code and making the extent of legal recognition of relationships for anyone be a "domestic partnership contract" and that all law about it be stricken of any sexed language, and with any legal asymmetries built explicitly around a clear and extant biological asymmetry. "No person shall be expected by any other person to be with child for their sake; the right to terminate a pregnancy begins, and ends, with the person carrying it." And so on.

The one place I think the law needs mention sex or race at all is in descriptions of some explicit items of a long list with many implicit items which may not be used to discriminate for any reason (ie, discriminating against a person on the basis of their <category> in whom that person may acceptably have a relationship with, or what job they may seek, or for any other public purpose).

Anyway, I'm.going to keep on proposing the things I think are right, and jumping right down the throat of anyone who says to quiet down, accept incremental changes, wait my turn. There are some things which I will begrudgingly take incremental changes I can get, but I will still stamp my foot and demand correctness now, and publicly proclaim where we ought be instead of where we are.

One of the biggest failures of the left, though, is stamping feet and demanding change when we know we do not like "here" but have no destination in mind of where we ought be.

 

[Harry Bosch]

THE SLAYERS OF THE DREAM

When Dr. King and the rest of the delegation from the Montgomery Improvement Association went to their first meeting with Montgomery public officials and representatives of the bus company, they went there with a proposal, a pragmatic and realistic one. They wanted a more humane form of segregation. That was the sensible thing to do. After all, segregation couldn't be ended, not in the South, certainly not in Alabama. That would be an idealistic thing to even propose, a pipe dream with no hope of success. Work within the system and incremental change will come and eventually we will get to place more comfortable in which to live.

By the time of King's assassination, de jure segregation of public facilities and services was a thing of the past. Not because King and all his fellow activists worked within the system, but because they tore the system down. Pursuit of the ideal and not acceptance of the status quo, a demand for fairness now and not a wish for change that some day may come; these are the actions that led to real justice and a closer realization of what our nation could and should be.

Every movement around the world and throughout the course of history that has propelled us as a species toward the aspirations of the better angels of our natures has first had to fight its way through a cacophony of calls and screeches of "No, you ask too much," and "You need to be more practical, more pragmatic," and "If you just work within the system and be patient, things will get better."

What if we don't want things to get better, but to get right? What if instead of choosing a slow poison or a quick one, we choose not to be contaminated at any speed? What if we have chosen to stand and fight not follow and beg? The time is always NOW to do the right thing, The time is always NOW to fight against corruption. The time is always NOW to change things for the better.

There is no better time than now, because justice delayed is justice denied and simply because a thing has been and been for a long time does not mean it can never cease to be.

Slavery ceased
Female disenfranchisement ceased
The Laws of Jim Crow ceased.

And all because everyday people chose the time to be now, the place to be here and the people to be us.

It saddens me that so many who claim as their legacy the acts of ancestors who chose here and now as the place and time to fight for what was right and righteous, now lend their voices to cries for pragmatism, practicality and passivity.

What changes would you like to see?

 

[Jarhyn]

THE SLAYERS OF THE DREAM

When Dr. King and the rest of the delegation from the Montgomery Improvement Association went to their first meeting with Montgomery public officials and representatives of the bus company, they went there with a proposal, a pragmatic and realistic one. They wanted a more humane form of segregation. That was the sensible thing to do. After all, segregation couldn't be ended, not in the South, certainly not in Alabama. That would be an idealistic thing to even propose, a pipe dream with no hope of success. Work within the system and incremental change will come and eventually we will get to place more comfortable in which to live.

By the time of King's assassination, de jure segregation of public facilities and services was a thing of the past. Not because King and all his fellow activists worked within the system, but because they tore the system down. Pursuit of the ideal and not acceptance of the status quo, a demand for fairness now and not a wish for change that some day may come; these are the actions that led to real justice and a closer realization of what our nation could and should be.

Every movement around the world and throughout the course of history that has propelled us as a species toward the aspirations of the better angels of our natures has first had to fight its way through a cacophony of calls and screeches of "No, you ask too much," and "You need to be more practical, more pragmatic," and "If you just work within the system and be patient, things will get better."

What if we don't want things to get better, but to get right? What if instead of choosing a slow poison or a quick one, we choose not to be contaminated at any speed? What if we have chosen to stand and fight not follow and beg? The time is always NOW to do the right thing, The time is always NOW to fight against corruption. The time is always NOW to change things for the better.

There is no better time than now, because justice delayed is justice denied and simply because a thing has been and been for a long time does not mean it can never cease to be.

Slavery ceased
Female disenfranchisement ceased
The Laws of Jim Crow ceased.

And all because everyday people chose the time to be now, the place to be here and the people to be us.

It saddens me that so many who claim as their legacy the acts of ancestors who chose here and now as the place and time to fight for what was right and righteous, now lend their voices to cries for pragmatism, practicality and passivity.

What changes would you like to see?

Personally? Ending the drug war, educational guarantees, an end to educational indenturement, making laws sex-neutral, ending violent first response, eliminating evaluator access to potentially biasing information in housing/employment/rendering of service, and ending asymmetries in "owner"/worker dynamics. I have models for accomplishing all these things, personally.

 

[Harry Bosch]

THE SLAYERS OF THE DREAM

When Dr. King and the rest of the delegation from the Montgomery Improvement Association went to their first meeting with Montgomery public officials and representatives of the bus company, they went there with a proposal, a pragmatic and realistic one. They wanted a more humane form of segregation. That was the sensible thing to do. After all, segregation couldn't be ended, not in the South, certainly not in Alabama. That would be an idealistic thing to even propose, a pipe dream with no hope of success. Work within the system and incremental change will come and eventually we will get to place more comfortable in which to live.

By the time of King's assassination, de jure segregation of public facilities and services was a thing of the past. Not because King and all his fellow activists worked within the system, but because they tore the system down. Pursuit of the ideal and not acceptance of the status quo, a demand for fairness now and not a wish for change that some day may come; these are the actions that led to real justice and a closer realization of what our nation could and should be.

Every movement around the world and throughout the course of history that has propelled us as a species toward the aspirations of the better angels of our natures has first had to fight its way through a cacophony of calls and screeches of "No, you ask too much," and "You need to be more practical, more pragmatic," and "If you just work within the system and be patient, things will get better."

What if we don't want things to get better, but to get right? What if instead of choosing a slow poison or a quick one, we choose not to be contaminated at any speed? What if we have chosen to stand and fight not follow and beg? The time is always NOW to do the right thing, The time is always NOW to fight against corruption. The time is always NOW to change things for the better.

There is no better time than now, because justice delayed is justice denied and simply because a thing has been and been for a long time does not mean it can never cease to be.

Slavery ceased
Female disenfranchisement ceased
The Laws of Jim Crow ceased.

And all because everyday people chose the time to be now, the place to be here and the people to be us.

It saddens me that so many who claim as their legacy the acts of ancestors who chose here and now as the place and time to fight for what was right and righteous, now lend their voices to cries for pragmatism, practicality and passivity.

What changes would you like to see?

Personally? Ending the drug war, educational guarantees, an end to educational indenturement, making laws sex-neutral, ending violent first response, eliminating evaluator access to potentially biasing information in housing/employment/rendering of service, and ending asymmetries in "owner"/worker dynamics. I have models for accomplishing all these things, personally.

What is "educational indenturement"? I agree with ending drug war. I would lower barriers to educational, but I also think that people need to have skin in the game with their education. Laws sex neutral - sure. Ending violent first response? Sure. We'd need to spend dramatically more for training for the police. Far more. But sure. Ending evaluator access to info. Not sure what that means. Ending asymmeteries in owner/worker dynamics. Sounds great and easy - but not so easy. I'm for empowering employees. I love worker owned companies when they make sense. And the government could help this through tax incentives instead of tax costs (very difficult and expensive to set up ESOPs for example). I'd love to have my employees buy me out - but not as easy as it sounds.

 

[Gospel]

Dear AthenaAwakened,

You may add me to the list of people scattering like roaches when you cut the lights on.

Sincerely Gospel,

 

[TomC]

I have considered starting a thread about my long and winding path from white visceral racist to the board of the local branch of the NAACP.

But I'm not inclined to put myself through that meat grinder on TFT.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Personally? Ending the drug war, educational guarantees, an end to educational indenturement, making laws sex-neutral, ending violent first response, eliminating evaluator access to potentially biasing information in housing/employment/rendering of service, and ending asymmetries in "owner"/worker dynamics. I have models for accomplishing all these things, personally.

What is "educational indenturement"?

I think he's talking about the need for student loans.

I would lower barriers to educational, but I also think that people need to have skin in the game with their education.

Seconded. It's much better for people to have skin in the game.

Laws sex neutral - sure.

What laws aren't sex-neutral now?

Ending violent first response? Sure. We'd need to spend dramatically more for training for the police. Far more. But sure.

It's an impossible objective--some people are not going to be peaceful, period.

Ending evaluator access to info. Not sure what that means.

What some of us have discussed--things like not letting the people doing college admissions know the race and gender of the applicants. For large scale operations it generally would not be much of a burden. It would be much harder for small businesses, though.

Ending asymmeteries in owner/worker dynamics. Sounds great and easy - but not so easy. I'm for empowering employees. I love worker owned companies when they make sense. And the government could help this through tax incentives instead of tax costs (very difficult and expensive to set up ESOPs for example). I'd love to have my employees buy me out - but not as easy as it sounds.

Yeah, that one is leftist fantasy.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

THE SLAYERS OF THE DREAM

When Dr. King and the rest of the delegation from the Montgomery Improvement Association went to their first meeting with Montgomery public officials and representatives of the bus company, they went there with a proposal, a pragmatic and realistic one. They wanted a more humane form of segregation. That was the sensible thing to do. After all, segregation couldn't be ended, not in the South, certainly not in Alabama. That would be an idealistic thing to even propose, a pipe dream with no hope of success. Work within the system and incremental change will come and eventually we will get to place more comfortable in which to live.

By the time of King's assassination, de jure segregation of public facilities and services was a thing of the past. Not because King and all his fellow activists worked within the system, but because they tore the system down. Pursuit of the ideal and not acceptance of the status quo, a demand for fairness now and not a wish for change that some day may come; these are the actions that led to real justice and a closer realization of what our nation could and should be.

Every movement around the world and throughout the course of history that has propelled us as a species toward the aspirations of the better angels of our natures has first had to fight its way through a cacophony of calls and screeches of "No, you ask too much," and "You need to be more practical, more pragmatic," and "If you just work within the system and be patient, things will get better."

What if we don't want things to get better, but to get right? What if instead of choosing a slow poison or a quick one, we choose not to be contaminated at any speed? What if we have chosen to stand and fight not follow and beg? The time is always NOW to do the right thing, The time is always NOW to fight against corruption. The time is always NOW to change things for the better.

There is no better time than now, because justice delayed is justice denied and simply because a thing has been and been for a long time does not mean it can never cease to be.

Slavery ceased
Female disenfranchisement ceased
The Laws of Jim Crow ceased.

And all because everyday people chose the time to be now, the place to be here and the people to be us.

It saddens me that so many who claim as their legacy the acts of ancestors who chose here and now as the place and time to fight for what was right and righteous, now lend their voices to cries for pragmatism, practicality and passivity.

What changes would you like to see?

First, that people would fight for and vote for what's right, not what's electable nor comforting to and validating for our fears and prejudices.

Do these things and then we'll speak of more.

 

[Gospel]