The Ukranian "rebels" were from Moscow

[Loren Pechtel]

Captain obvious strikes again!
Do you expect people shocked by that? You really believe this is Iran-Contras level revelation?
Nobody sane in Russia believes that there are no rusian (effectively) troops in Eastern Ukraine, nobody. It's worst kept secret.
Question is, how many and the answer is not many but enough to make current Ukrainian government effort for final solution fail.

Do you want to know something which is ACTUALLY kinda shocking? Ukrainian government assholes hate Russia so much that they buy gas from Europe. Russian gas is transported to Europe through the gas pipeline over Ukraine, companies in EU buy that gas, then sell it back (with profit) to Ukraine. And gas actually pass through pipelines back and forth. Then Ukrainian President proudly proclaims that Ukraine got rid of russian gas dependence. Same story with coal. They buy their eastern Ukraine coal through Poland and surprisingly .... Russia. And everybody in Ukraine knows it.

You don't get the implications.

There's no way the guy was there without Moscow's ok. That means the "rebels" were really Russians in disguise. That was an invasion, not a rebellion.

Nope, Rebellion is a real thing, but Moscow is no doubt and within reasonable limits assisting militarily/financially, because these guys are not qualified to conduct large scale military defense even against such a week force as Ukrainian army. Plus Moscow provides unifying center for different factions.
You can brainwash your fellow americans with these "implications" but it won't work In Russia or Ukraine.
It's not an invasion, it's stupid trumpsters ukrainian nazies getting into power by accident really and then pissing off half of the country.

In other words, you are admitting that the Russians were behind it. Thank you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Next thing you'll be telling me that the missile that shot down that airliner wasn't fired off because someone made a whoopsie.

Yes, ukrainian army made a whoopsie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

That's not the missile that he was referring to and you should know it.

 

[barbos]

Nope, Rebellion is a real thing, but Moscow is no doubt and within reasonable limits assisting militarily/financially, because these guys are not qualified to conduct large scale military defense even against such a week force as Ukrainian army. Plus Moscow provides unifying center for different factions.
You can brainwash your fellow americans with these "implications" but it won't work In Russia or Ukraine.
It's not an invasion, it's stupid trumpsters ukrainian nazies getting into power by accident really and then pissing off half of the country.

In other words, you are admitting that the Russians were behind it. Thank you.

Behind what?

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Next thing you'll be telling me that the missile that shot down that airliner wasn't fired off because someone made a whoopsie.

Yes, ukrainian army made a whoopsie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

That's not the missile that he was referring to and you should know it.

What missile?

 

[Harry Bosch]

I hate to say it but untermensche is actually sort-of right for a change.

Major powers to manipulate and interfere in the internal workings of lesser powers. That includes not just Moscow, but Washington, Paris, London, Beijing, etc. Even medium powers do it to small powers. It is nothing new.

What makes this sort of newsworthy is "Oh my god, Moscow is horning in on Washington's game."

Yes, larger countries use influence, soft power and often hard power to bully smaller countries. Where Russia is different today however is that their is no free Russian liberal press questioning their human rights violations and keeping them in check. And secondly, Russia is invading and taking land (Crimera, Eastern Ukraine).

 

[barbos]

I hate to say it but untermensche is actually sort-of right for a change.

Major powers to manipulate and interfere in the internal workings of lesser powers. That includes not just Moscow, but Washington, Paris, London, Beijing, etc. Even medium powers do it to small powers. It is nothing new.

What makes this sort of newsworthy is "Oh my god, Moscow is horning in on Washington's game."

Yes, larger countries use influence, soft power and often hard power to bully smaller countries. Where Russia is different today however is that their is no free Russian liberal press questioning their human rights violations and keeping them in check.

This is true but it does not directly lead to the rest.

And secondly, Russia is invading and taking land (Crimera, Eastern Ukraine).

Western free press failed to inform you of what actually happened/is happening and why.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This is true but it does not directly lead to the rest.

And secondly, Russia is invading and taking land (Crimera, Eastern Ukraine).

Western free press failed to inform you of what actually happened/is happening and why.

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

 

[barbos]

This is true but it does not directly lead to the rest.

And secondly, Russia is invading and taking land (Crimera, Eastern Ukraine).

Western free press failed to inform you of what actually happened/is happening and why.

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

That's borderline lie. Or at least simplistically mechanical description omitting important details and contexts.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Behind what?

- - - Updated - - -

Next thing you'll be telling me that the missile that shot down that airliner wasn't fired off because someone made a whoopsie.

Yes, ukrainian army made a whoopsie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

That's not the missile that he was referring to and you should know it.

What missile?

Playing dumb doesn't work. You have to know about the airliner the rebels shot down by mistake.

- - - Updated - - -

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

That's borderline lie. Or at least simplistically mechanical description omitting important details and contexts.

The point is Russia invaded eastern Ukraine.

They used their usual playbook and pretended it was rebels. Keyword is pretended.

 

[barbos]

Behind what?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, ukrainian army made a whoopsie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

That's not the missile that he was referring to and you should know it.

What missile?

Playing dumb doesn't work.

Why are you doing it then?

You have to know about the airliner the rebels shot down by mistake.

No, I don't know about that, I know that rebels were accused of that. but it is still is not fact.

- - - Updated - - -

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

That's borderline lie. Or at least simplistically mechanical description omitting important details and contexts.

The point is Russia invaded eastern Ukraine.

You are playing dumb again.

They used their usual playbook and pretended it was rebels. Keyword is pretended.

Says who?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I hate to say it but untermensche is actually sort-of right for a change.

Major powers to manipulate and interfere in the internal workings of lesser powers. That includes not just Moscow, but Washington, Paris, London, Beijing, etc. Even medium powers do it to small powers. It is nothing new.

What makes this sort of newsworthy is "Oh my god, Moscow is horning in on Washington's game."

Yes, larger countries use influence, soft power and often hard power to bully smaller countries. Where Russia is different today however is that their is no free Russian liberal press questioning their human rights violations and keeping them in check.

You have more faith in the US press than I do.

And secondly, Russia is invading and taking land (Crimera, Eastern Ukraine).

The sad thing about European wars is that everyone has occupied everywhere at some point and therefore has some claim to everywhere. What point in time shall we say the borders were correct and freeze Europe at?

 

[barbos]

The sad thing about European wars is that everyone has occupied everywhere at some point and therefore has some claim to everywhere. What point in time shall we say the borders were correct and freeze Europe at?

It's worse, EU/US reaction is a reflection of their own history and their own problems, they don't understand that their experience does not always directly applicable. Ukraine have never been a real state, let alone ethnic state, it had been a part of different empires with different ethnicities. Now their Nazis got a chance to build "ukrainian (whatever that is) uber ales" type of country, forgetting that the third of the country are literally russians which ended up in Ukraine by formal redistricting. Another third are not terribly excited about the whole idea anyway.
So It's no surprise nazies are having troubles convincing them to learn ukrainian. You want to build Ukrainian Reich? Then you would have to get rid of most of the Ukraine.

Imagine if Merkel decided to make german an only official language of EU and started banning french, itlian, spanish, etc? You are correct, she would have been placed in asylum. But when it comes to Ukraine, it's fine, let them have it. after all, what is bad for Russia is by definition good for the rest (EU/USA) world.

 

[Harry Bosch]

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

That's borderline lie. Or at least simplistically mechanical description omitting important details and contexts.

A borderline line? So you're back to stating that the little green men invaded Crimeria and Eastern Ukraine? Not the Russians?

 

[barbos]

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

That's borderline lie. Or at least simplistically mechanical description omitting important details and contexts.

A borderline line? So you're back to stating that the little green men invaded Crimeria and Eastern Ukraine? Not the Russians?

Yes, Eastern Ukraine part is a lie. Crimea part is half truth. We have been over this many times. You keep repeating the same mantra which has no effect on people in Crimea, they don't view it as invasion, or if you insist quite thankful for the "invasion".

And if you insist on being hard ass lawyer, then Sevastopol part along with its base have never been legally part of Ukraine. I mean people can argue about the rest of Crimea, but Sevastopol had not been part of Ukraine at the time of Ukraine getting their independence. It was literally stolen, there can't be no discussion about that. And I bet you did not know about that.

 

[Harry Bosch]

A borderline line? So you're back to stating that the little green men invaded Crimeria and Eastern Ukraine? Not the Russians?

Yes, Eastern Ukraine part is a lie. Crimea part is half truth. We have been over this many times. You keep repeating the same mantra which has no effect on people in Crimea, they don't view it as invasion, or if you insist quite thankful for the "invasion".

And if you insist on being hard ass lawyer, then Sevastopol part along with its base have never been legally part of Ukraine. I mean people can argue about the rest of Crimea, but Sevastopol had not been part of Ukraine at the time of Ukraine getting their independence. It was literally stolen, there can't be no discussion about that. And I bet you did not know about that.

Crap. I gotcha. So, if Northern Mexico has people in it who favor the US, and the US invades, it's okay? Is that how it works? I'm sure that there are some Russian supports who live in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Does this mean that Russia is justified in invading these countries?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Behind what?

- - - Updated - - -

That's not the missile that he was referring to and you should know it.

What missile?

Playing dumb doesn't work.

Why are you doing it then?

You have to know about the airliner the rebels shot down by mistake.

No, I don't know about that, I know that rebels were accused of that. but it is still is not fact.

- - - Updated - - -

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

That's borderline lie. Or at least simplistically mechanical description omitting important details and contexts.

The point is Russia invaded eastern Ukraine.

You are playing dumb again.

They used their usual playbook and pretended it was rebels. Keyword is pretended.

Says who?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Behind what?

- - - Updated - - -



What missile?

Playing dumb doesn't work.

Why are you doing it then?

You have to know about the airliner the rebels shot down by mistake.

No, I don't know about that, I know that rebels were accused of that. but it is still is not fact.

- - - Updated - - -

{sigh} Would that Ukraine was sovereign country on December 15, 2015? Then on December 16, 2015 Russian troops invaded and took Crimeria? Then shortly after, Russian troops went into Eastern Ukraine?

That's borderline lie. Or at least simplistically mechanical description omitting important details and contexts.

The point is Russia invaded eastern Ukraine.

You are playing dumb again.

They used their usual playbook and pretended it was rebels. Keyword is pretended.

Says who?

View attachment 14330

That's funny! I forgot about that guy. It's hard to understand people who have such a blind loyalty to their leaders. I loved Obama. Thought he was a very good president. But I could think of many Obama policies that I disagreed.

 

[barbos]

A borderline line? So you're back to stating that the little green men invaded Crimeria and Eastern Ukraine? Not the Russians?

Yes, Eastern Ukraine part is a lie. Crimea part is half truth. We have been over this many times. You keep repeating the same mantra which has no effect on people in Crimea, they don't view it as invasion, or if you insist quite thankful for the "invasion".

And if you insist on being hard ass lawyer, then Sevastopol part along with its base have never been legally part of Ukraine. I mean people can argue about the rest of Crimea, but Sevastopol had not been part of Ukraine at the time of Ukraine getting their independence. It was literally stolen, there can't be no discussion about that. And I bet you did not know about that.

Crap. I gotcha. So, if Northern Mexico has people in it who favor the US, and the US invades, it's okay? Is that how it works? I'm sure that there are some Russian supports who live in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Does this mean that Russia is justified in invading these countries?

If Northern Mexico had been part of US before and had the same autonomy rights as Crimea in 1992-1993 then yes, sure.
US TV heads are lying when they "forget" to mention the history. And you do the same when you ignore it.
Crimeans had had enough of Ukraine and left fair and square, they took their right to leave back and then used it to vote to leave.
little green men and imaginary invasion had nothing to do with it.

 

[Frikki]

Crap. I gotcha. So, if Northern Mexico has people in it who favor the US, and the US invades, it's okay? Is that how it works? I'm sure that there are some Russian supports who live in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Does this mean that Russia is justified in invading these countries?

If Northern Mexico had been part of US before and had the same autonomy rights as Crimea in 1992-1993 then yes, sure.
US TV heads are lying when they "forget" to mention the history. And you do the same when you ignore it.
Crimeans had had enough of Ukraine and left fair and square, they took their right to leave back and then used it to vote to leave.
little green men and imaginary invasion had nothing to do with it.

Do you really believe this? That someone would choose Russia, which is as your man Trumps says a "shithole"? Why would anyone choose Russia?

 

[zorq]

Hear-ye Hear-ye... Stealing land at gunpoint is A-okay.

*If you or your ancestor at any time in the past once owned it and Someone on that land likes you better than the current owners.

Nevermind that you had to steal it at gunpoint threaten to kill or actually kill some of the current owners. They are wrong to try to defend their own proprty.

And there is nothing suspicious about the fact that you were lying about your true identity when you stole the property back. Disguising yourself and pretending to be part of the local populous. That is a completely normal and forthright thing to do during any proprty transfer that is on the up and up.

Why would anyone question whether you really had a right to that property? It baffles the mind!

I'm off to invade the farm my old grandpa lost in a poker bet right now!

 

[barbos]

Hear-ye Hear-ye... Stealing land at gunpoint is A-okay.

*If you or your ancestor at any time in the past once owned it and Someone on that land likes you better than the current owners.

Nevermind that you had to steal it at gunpoint threaten to kill or actually kill some of the current owners. They are wrong to try to defend their own proprty.

And there is nothing suspicious about the fact that you were lying about your true identity when you stole the property back. Disguising yourself and pretending to be part of the local populous. That is a completely normal and forthright thing to do during any proprty transfer that is on the up and up.

Why would anyone question whether you really had a right to that property? It baffles the mind!

I'm off to invade the farm my old grandpa lost in a poker bet right now!

What the fuck are you talking about? I suspect that you are not disputing the property claim, you dispute methods. Well, dispute away, I don't see any use for such dispute, except to note that nobody was hurt in a process.