• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

The Ukranian "rebels" were from Moscow

Crap. I gotcha. So, if Northern Mexico has people in it who favor the US, and the US invades, it's okay? Is that how it works? I'm sure that there are some Russian supports who live in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Does this mean that Russia is justified in invading these countries?
If Northern Mexico had been part of US before and had the same autonomy rights as Crimea in 1992-1993 then yes, sure.
US TV heads are lying when they "forget" to mention the history. And you do the same when you ignore it.
Crimeans had had enough of Ukraine and left fair and square, they took their right to leave back and then used it to vote to leave.
little green men and imaginary invasion had nothing to do with it.

Do you really believe this? That someone would choose Russia, which is as your man Trumps says a "shithole"? Why would anyone choose Russia?

Over Ukraine? all the time. In fact some of the people who started this last revolt which ended up with current nazi friendly government are in ...... Russia now.
The sad Irony is, the main reason why Crimea was left in Ukraine after Soviet Union dissolution is because Ukraine was much better economically than Russia at the time so people were not particularly interested in insisting on referendum. Having said that, Russia (and Ukraine as well) is a lot nicer place than Iceland. At least there is no Vitamin D deficiency and economy will get there eventually.
 
Last edited:
The region is fractured. Ukraine was never a country.

The are regional pockets of ethnic Russians who see themselves as Russians. It is these people Putin plays to.

The idea that a tolerant-liberal democracy can arise in Ukraine is a pipe dream.
 
The region is fractured. Ukraine was never a country.

The are regional pockets of ethnic Russians who see themselves as Russians. It is these people Putin plays to.
Not pockets, East Ukraine is a former Russia, attached to Ukraine after revolution for political reasons. And people there ARE actually russians. Ukrainians nazis are idiots, they don't understand in order to have their Reich they need to shed most of the Ukraine.
The idea that a tolerant-liberal democracy can arise in Ukraine is a pipe dream.
This is certainly what EU bureaucrats are realizing now. They are realizing that their attempt to back ukrainian nazis in their attempt to take Ukraine off Russian influence spectacularly backfired. As for US, I don't know, their neocons might have planed it that way.
 
Hear-ye Hear-ye... Stealing land at gunpoint is A-okay.

*If you or your ancestor at any time in the past once owned it and Someone on that land likes you better than the current owners.

Nevermind that you had to steal it at gunpoint threaten to kill or actually kill some of the current owners. They are wrong to try to defend their own proprty.

And there is nothing suspicious about the fact that you were lying about your true identity when you stole the property back. Disguising yourself and pretending to be part of the local populous. That is a completely normal and forthright thing to do during any proprty transfer that is on the up and up.

Why would anyone question whether you really had a right to that property? It baffles the mind!

I'm off to invade the farm my old grandpa lost in a poker bet right now!
What the fuck are you talking about? I suspect that you are not disputing the property claim, you dispute methods. Well, dispute away, I don't see any use for such dispute, except to note that nobody was hurt in a process.
Good thing nobody was hurt. Oh wait..


 
Hear-ye Hear-ye... Stealing land at gunpoint is A-okay.

*If you or your ancestor at any time in the past once owned it and Someone on that land likes you better than the current owners.

Nevermind that you had to steal it at gunpoint threaten to kill or actually kill some of the current owners. They are wrong to try to defend their own proprty.

And there is nothing suspicious about the fact that you were lying about your true identity when you stole the property back. Disguising yourself and pretending to be part of the local populous. That is a completely normal and forthright thing to do during any proprty transfer that is on the up and up.

Why would anyone question whether you really had a right to that property? It baffles the mind!

I'm off to invade the farm my old grandpa lost in a poker bet right now!
What the fuck are you talking about? I suspect that you are not disputing the property claim, you dispute methods. Well, dispute away, I don't see any use for such dispute, except to note that nobody was hurt in a process.
Good thing nobody was hurt. Oh wait..


Nobody was hurt in Crimea. Had green men invaded Eastern Ukraine too there would have been much better in terms of number of dead people.
 
The region is fractured. Ukraine was never a country.

The are regional pockets of ethnic Russians who see themselves as Russians. It is these people Putin plays to.

The idea that a tolerant-liberal democracy can arise in Ukraine is a pipe dream.

So only a tolerant liberal democracy is allowed to be a country? I don't know. There are some who question that the US remains a tolerant liberal democracy. Russia damn sure isn't. Ukraine had a large political protest yesterday link below. Putin doesn't allow protests. He doesn't allow anyone to run against him.

http://www.newser.com/story/254966/protesters-storm-kiev-demand-ukraine-presidents-resignation.html
 
The region is fractured. Ukraine was never a country.

The are regional pockets of ethnic Russians who see themselves as Russians. It is these people Putin plays to.

The idea that a tolerant-liberal democracy can arise in Ukraine is a pipe dream.

The world is in reality completely fractured. All dividing lines are imaginary.

But the lessons from WWII taught us that we need to work to lessen tensions and aggression. Our weapons have become too destructive.

Unfortunately the two major powers do not seem to have learned anything from the very good lessons in WWII.

WWIII will not be as pretty.
 
Do you really believe this? That someone would choose Russia, which is as your man Trumps says a "shithole"? Why would anyone choose Russia?

Over Ukraine? all the time. In fact some of the people who started this last revolt which ended up with current nazi friendly government are in ...... Russia now.
The sad Irony is, the main reason why Crimea was left in Ukraine after Soviet Union dissolution is because Ukraine was much better economically than Russia at the time so people were not particularly interested in insisting on referendum. Having said that, Russia (and Ukraine as well) is a lot nicer place than Iceland. At least there is no Vitamin D deficiency and economy will get there eventually.

Ukraine unlike Russia is getting better and if it aligns itself with the EU it has a future, if it is taken over by Russia then it becomes a part of a regressing mini empire that has GDP per capita on par with Lebanon and the Maldives a shell of a country with a falling life expectancy, birth rate ruled by an incompetent dictator that only manages to make things worse for his people.

How about you switch sides Barbie and try winning for a change because I guarantee that if you keep on beings Putin´s little boy then you will continue being on the losing team.
 
The region is fractured. Ukraine was never a country.

The are regional pockets of ethnic Russians who see themselves as Russians. It is these people Putin plays to.

The idea that a tolerant-liberal democracy can arise in Ukraine is a pipe dream.

The world is in reality completely fractured. All dividing lines are imaginary.

But the lessons from WWII taught us that we need to work to lessen tensions and aggression. Our weapons have become too destructive.

Unfortunately the two major powers do not seem to have learned anything from the very good lessons in WWII.

WWIII will not be as pretty.

Post war western Europe overcame factionalism and ended up with NATO and working interactive economies. India struggled post Brits and manged to form a general stable system balancing antagonists.

Somebody wrote a book recently. Other than the well known trouble spots, conflict globally has gone dowm.
 
The region is fractured. Ukraine was never a country.

The are regional pockets of ethnic Russians who see themselves as Russians. It is these people Putin plays to.

The idea that a tolerant-liberal democracy can arise in Ukraine is a pipe dream.

So only a tolerant liberal democracy is allowed to be a country? I don't know. There are some who question that the US remains a tolerant liberal democracy. Russia damn sure isn't. Ukraine had a large political protest yesterday link below. Putin doesn't allow protests. He doesn't allow anyone to run against him.

http://www.newser.com/story/254966/protesters-storm-kiev-demand-ukraine-presidents-resignation.html
West is certainly not liberal with respect to to non-liberal countries such as Russia. They think they should not exist.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you really believe this? That someone would choose Russia, which is as your man Trumps says a "shithole"? Why would anyone choose Russia?

Over Ukraine? all the time. In fact some of the people who started this last revolt which ended up with current nazi friendly government are in ...... Russia now.
The sad Irony is, the main reason why Crimea was left in Ukraine after Soviet Union dissolution is because Ukraine was much better economically than Russia at the time so people were not particularly interested in insisting on referendum. Having said that, Russia (and Ukraine as well) is a lot nicer place than Iceland. At least there is no Vitamin D deficiency and economy will get there eventually.

Ukraine unlike Russia is getting better and if it aligns itself with the EU it has a future, if it is taken over by Russia then it becomes a part of a regressing mini empire that has GDP per capita on par with Lebanon and the Maldives a shell of a country with a falling life expectancy, birth rate ruled by an incompetent dictator that only manages to make things worse for his people.

How about you switch sides Barbie and try winning for a change because I guarantee that if you keep on beings Putin´s little boy then you will continue being on the losing team.
What a load of stupid iceladinc bullshit.
 
West is certainly not liberal with respect to to non-liberal countries such as Russia. They think they should not exist.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you really believe this? That someone would choose Russia, which is as your man Trumps says a "shithole"? Why would anyone choose Russia?

Over Ukraine? all the time. In fact some of the people who started this last revolt which ended up with current nazi friendly government are in ...... Russia now.
The sad Irony is, the main reason why Crimea was left in Ukraine after Soviet Union dissolution is because Ukraine was much better economically than Russia at the time so people were not particularly interested in insisting on referendum. Having said that, Russia (and Ukraine as well) is a lot nicer place than Iceland. At least there is no Vitamin D deficiency and economy will get there eventually.

Ukraine unlike Russia is getting better and if it aligns itself with the EU it has a future, if it is taken over by Russia then it becomes a part of a regressing mini empire that has GDP per capita on par with Lebanon and the Maldives a shell of a country with a falling life expectancy, birth rate ruled by an incompetent dictator that only manages to make things worse for his people.

How about you switch sides Barbie and try winning for a change because I guarantee that if you keep on beings Putin´s little boy then you will continue being on the losing team.
What a load of stupid iceladinc bullshit.

Yea, I don't think that "non-liberal" countries should exist. I believe that people should have the freedom to choose their own leaders. Not having it forced on them. I do not advocate war over this. I think that the west should allow non-liberal countries to work it out on themselves. But our position should be that dictatorship countries like Russia should be shunned.
 
Yea, I don't think that "non-liberal" countries should exist.
How far are you ready to go to achieve that non-existence? Constant undermining, economic sanctions, war, Nuclear war, genocide?
I believe that people should have the freedom to choose their own leaders. Not having it forced on them.
Well, US/EU seemingly disagree here. Remember Nuland and her "Fuck the EU"?
I do not advocate war over this.
That' good to hear.
I think that the west should allow non-liberal countries to work it out on themselves.
Cool, but this is not what's happening it seems.
But our position should be that dictatorship countries like Russia should be shunned.
I would not call that shunning. Whatever west does it makes it worse not better.

West created Putin by constantly trying to overthrow him (for no good reason I must say) I truly believe that there is a more than 50% chance that he wants to retire, but US/West in their stupid and misguided strategy to shun Russia (not Putin) is keeping him from doing so because he believes that Russia and all his legacy would go down the drain once he is gone.

West should stop doing what they are doing and once russian voters, who are as stupid as your voters, realize that West does not want to destroy Russia then they will vote for someone who is somewhat opposite of Putin. Right now, typical russian voter is convinced that US is out to get them. And they have a point, all russian propaganda needs to show is some US general, congressman or McCain talking about Russia.

You don't realize how these stupid degenerates from US/EU governments are popular in russian propaganda. Western propaganda does that with Putin too. But he is quite a bit smarter than your idiots.

In short, leave Russia and their leaders alone and try to entice Russia economically like you did with China despite them being 100 times less liberal and more hard-assed than Russia.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Well, I guess if your armed robbery doesn't have any casualties then there was no crime.
Nobody was robbed, even Ukraine are better off without Crimea, according to US ambassador at least.

There were an awful lot of guns and an awful lot of demands for an consensual transfer. Who do you think you are fooling?

Matlock is an EX US ambassador. He is so very "ex" that he was wasn't ambassador to Ukraine or Russia, he was ambassador to the USSR.

And what is his reason for thinking Ukraine should be happy to shed Crimea? "Nothing weakens a nation more than holding territory whose residents prefer to belong to another country." http://time.com/29107/former-u-s-ambassador-to-ussr-let-russia-take-crimea/

But here is the thing about that, when residents of one country prefer to belong to another country, ... they MOVE. And besides, people jealous of the opportunities over the boarder doesn't "weaken" a country. Just ask Mexico.

Matlock's analysis is crap.
 
Well, I guess if your armed robbery doesn't have any casualties then there was no crime.
Nobody was robbed, even Ukraine are better off without Crimea, according to US ambassador at least.

There were an awful lot of guns and an awful lot of demands for an consensual transfer. Who do you think you are fooling?
I am not fooling anybody. It's you who is fooling here.
Matlock is an EX US ambassador. He is so very "ex" that he was wasn't ambassador to Ukraine or Russia, he was ambassador to the USSR.
And you should listen to him considering his long career.
And what is his reason for thinking Ukraine should be happy to shed Crimea? "Nothing weakens a nation more than holding territory whose residents prefer to belong to another country." http://time.com/29107/former-u-s-ambassador-to-ussr-let-russia-take-crimea/

But here is the thing about that, when residents of one country prefer to belong to another country, ... they MOVE. And besides, people jealous of the opportunities over the boarder doesn't "weaken" a country. Just ask Mexico.
People in Kosovo should move then? it must be convenient to have double standards.
Matlock's analysis is crap.
How convenient. just call anything you don't like crap.
 
.
How convenient. just call anything you don't like crap.
I gave you specific reasons why it is crap, you apparently are holding his opinion up only because it dovetails with your opinion and can't think of any other excuse for armed robbery.
 
.
How convenient. just call anything you don't like crap.
I gave you specific reasons why it is crap, you apparently are holding his opinion up only because it dovetails with your opinion and can't think of any other excuse for armed robbery.
You did not give any reasons why his opinion is crap. You keep ignoring arguments which were given to you.
 
Back
Top Bottom