there are two main philosophies in life

[Harry Bosch]

If they do the same amount of the same type of work then they should receive the same pay

According to whom? Do you acknowledge that seniority should play a role? One if one worker negotiates a higher wage than another? What if one worker at a company lives in Utah with a lower standard of living than his co-worker in New York?

Thats called measuring with a variable ruler

I don't blame you for not answering my question. But pay is based on demand; not "the amount of work".

 

[no-one-particular]

Thats called measuring with a variable ruler

I don't blame you for not answering my question. But pay is based on demand; not "the amount of work".

yes, demand for a certain amount of work

 

[Lion IRC]

Quantity of work does not equate to quality of work.

Two chefs might put in the exact same amount of effort making the product they hope to sell but that doesn't mean they will both have equally successful businesses.

Do you argue that I 'ought' to be willing to pay the same wage to both chefs?

 

[J842P]

Quantity of work does not equate to quality of work.

Two chefs might put in the exact same amount of effort making the product they hope to sell but that doesn't mean they will both have equally successful businesses.

Do you argue that I 'ought' to be willing to pay the same wage to both chefs?

No, man. Look, you won't find me a supporter of the standard liberal economic philosophy, but that is not what is implied at all. Try googling "economics demand".

 

[no-one-particular]

Quantity of work does not equate to quality of work.

Two chefs might put in the exact same amount of effort making the product they hope to sell but that doesn't mean they will both have equally successful businesses.

Do you argue that I 'ought' to be willing to pay the same wage to both chefs?

equal pay for equal work

what part of "equal" do you not understand?

 

[Lion IRC]

The part where you get to tell me what I must consider to be equal - when I'm the one deciding what to spend MY money on.

 

[no-one-particular]

identical pay for identical work

 

[Lion IRC]

OK.
I'll split the payment between two workers. Then they both only get half what they might have.

 

[Lion IRC]

The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

“But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

See Matthew 20:9:15

 

[no-one-particular]

The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

“But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

See Matthew 20:9:15

what about it?

 

[Treedbear]

...all men are equal and deserve equal pay for equal work

This is problematic because (as @Treedbear noted) its not necessarily true that every worker equally needs the same pay.
And because the person buying - paying for - that worker's labor ought to have an option to decide whose labor they prefer.
...

Excuse me but where did I state any opinion on whether every worker equally needs the same pay? You might have someone else in mind. I actually haven't formulated an argument either way, mainly because it would imply there's some legal means to enforce it. The best we can do so far is having anti-discrimination laws. But those only work for larger companies where patterns of behavior can be established.

The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

“But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

See Matthew 20:9:15

That landowner wasn't doing himself any favors. What happened the next day? How many workers showed up early for the same pay they could have expected by showing up late? One interpretation of the parable is that God provides for his people's needs simply out of his generosity without regard for any works they perform. But employers aren't God, and they tend not to act with such magnanimous generosity. That's why we need government that will step in an provide for basic needs. Whether someone shows up for work early in the morning or at 5 in the afternoon.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

https://leanin.org/equal-pay-data-a...MIh9GMxOSK7QIVlJJbCh3NfwneEAAYASABEgKdPPD_BwE

The wage gap between women and men still stubbornly remains. And for black women, and Hispanic women, it is even worse. We get a lot of "Taxation is theft!" crap from the far right, but yet this wage theft caused by systematic misogyny and racism is acceptable to the right. Our right winged politicians in Washington, many of them loudly Christian and religious, playing to a largely Christian right wing base have never bothered to address any of this open wage theft.

 

[Lion IRC]

...where did I state any opinion on whether every worker equally needs the same pay?

Where did I actually state that you held a particular opinion?

My take on your post here was that its not necessarily true that every worker needs or deserves equal pay even if there were some theoretical entitlement.

depends on the context....no moral absolutes...hybrid system...etc etc

 

[Lion IRC]

And its NOT necessarily true that two workers - even if they are theoretically performing identical work - deserve the exact same payment. Their cost of living might be substantially different and so in REAL terms the effect/result of paying them the same amount would be unfair outcomes.

Worker A lives in Sydney where rents are high.
Worker B lives in New York where rents are low.

Why should worker B expect the same wage as someone living in Sydney?

 

[no-one-particular]

A pizza parlor waitress asks a customer if he wants the pizza cut into four pieces or six pieces or eight pieces. The customer then declares that he wants either four or six pieces of pizza “because I can’t eat eight.” Of course, the size of the pie is unchanged; the eight slices are merely smaller.

 

[Lion IRC]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/

 

[atrib]

...all men are equal and deserve equal pay for equal work

This is problematic because (as @Treedbear noted) its not necessarily true that every worker equally needs the same pay.
And because the person buying - paying for - that worker's labor ought to have an option to decide whose labor they prefer.

There's a lot of equal pay gender politics going on in sport and entertainment but I don't recall hearing those wimmin arguing that ALL female actors, singers, soccer players... should be paid the same.

If they do the same amount of the same type of work then they should receive the same pay

Why? There are no intrinsic laws of nature that make this statement true. We, as a society, decide the answers to questions like these.

Note that I am not saying that the above principle is a good or a bad principle. I am saying that we get to choose what principles to implement to build the societies we are a part of. There is no right or wrong answer, only subjective opinions.

 

[no-one-particular]

If they do the same amount of the same type of work then they should receive the same pay

Why? There are no intrinsic laws of nature that make this statement true. We, as a society, decide the answers to questions like these.

Note that I am not saying that the above principle is a good or a bad principle. I am saying that we get to choose what principles to implement to build the societies we are a part of. There is no right or wrong answer, only subjective opinions.

For the same reason we have laws against theft.
Because it is theft. It is stealing labor by not paying its true value.

 

[atrib]

If they do the same amount of the same type of work then they should receive the same pay

Why? There are no intrinsic laws of nature that make this statement true. We, as a society, decide the answers to questions like these.

Note that I am not saying that the above principle is a good or a bad principle. I am saying that we get to choose what principles to implement to build the societies we are a part of. There is no right or wrong answer, only subjective opinions.

For the same reason we have laws against theft.
Because it is theft. It is stealing labor by not paying its true value.

You didn't address my question, or the other point I raised. Value is subjective. Society gets to decide what the value of something is.

 

[no-one-particular]

For the same reason we have laws against theft.
Because it is theft. It is stealing labor by not paying its true value.

You didn't address my question, or the other point I raised. Value is subjective. Society gets to decide what the value of something is.

yes and once the value of a given amount of work has been determined then that is its value everywhere and for everyone.

The intrinsic law of nature is this: the universe does not revolve around your ego. You are not special. If you want others to respect your rights then you must respect their rights. If you want others to pay you what your work is worth then you must pay others what their work is worth. just because you feel like you are special and deserve more money for the same amount of work doesn't mean that you do. Logic and reason care nothing about your feelings.