Trevor Noah vs. the French

[dismal]

Noah didn't say they weren't French. He said they were African. You can't be both?

France, last I checked, is not in Africa. It's in Europe. So, no.

What are you imagining makes someone born and raised in France "African"?

Their ancestry and heritage, same as people do here. You may not be aware of it, but people are allowed to continue and identify with the culture that they were born into. They're French, and they're African. Sorry if that's too complicated for you.

Or is it too much for you to understand that an African can take pride in another African becoming a Frenchman and representing them in the World Cup?

Here in the USA you can be Irish (or another) American and take pride in Irish accomplishments without "real" Americans taking umbrage.

Time to cancel the St. Patrick's Day parade as unAmerican?

"I take pride in the accomplishments of people with African ancestry" is not equal to "Africa Wins!". Do you think Pogba, Matuidi, Kante et al who were born and raised in France appreciate the accomplishment of their home country being described as "Africa wins"?

 

[whollygoats]

Their ancestry and heritage, same as people do here. You may not be aware of it, but people are allowed to continue and identify with the culture that they were born into. They're French, and they're African. Sorry if that's too complicated for you.

Or is it too much for you to understand that an African can take pride in another African becoming a Frenchman and representing them in the World Cup?

Here in the USA you can be Irish (or another) American and take pride in Irish accomplishments without "real" Americans taking umbrage.

Time to cancel the St. Patrick's Day parade as unAmerican?

"I take pride in the accomplishments of people with African ancestry" is not equal to "Africa Wins!". Do you think Pogba, Matuidi, Kante et al who were born and raised in France appreciate the accomplishment of their home country being described as "Africa wins"?

I doubt it. I suspect they would much more appreciate the idea that a diversity of ethnic heritages adds to the strength of the team. "More than just a bunch of wussy crackers."

 

[Horatio Parker]

Their ancestry and heritage, same as people do here. You may not be aware of it, but people are allowed to continue and identify with the culture that they were born into. They're French, and they're African. Sorry if that's too complicated for you.

Or is it too much for you to understand that an African can take pride in another African becoming a Frenchman and representing them in the World Cup?

Here in the USA you can be Irish (or another) American and take pride in Irish accomplishments without "real" Americans taking umbrage.

Time to cancel the St. Patrick's Day parade as unAmerican?

"I take pride in the accomplishments of people with African ancestry" is not equal to "Africa Wins!". Do you think Pogba, Matuidi, Kante et al who were born and raised in France appreciate the accomplishment of their home country being described as "Africa wins"?

Probably. They could well be proud African-Frenchmen.

You do know, it's a comedy show and was a joke?

 

[dismal]

Their ancestry and heritage, same as people do here. You may not be aware of it, but people are allowed to continue and identify with the culture that they were born into. They're French, and they're African. Sorry if that's too complicated for you.

Or is it too much for you to understand that an African can take pride in another African becoming a Frenchman and representing them in the World Cup?

Here in the USA you can be Irish (or another) American and take pride in Irish accomplishments without "real" Americans taking umbrage.

Time to cancel the St. Patrick's Day parade as unAmerican?

"I take pride in the accomplishments of people with African ancestry" is not equal to "Africa Wins!". Do you think Pogba, Matuidi, Kante et al who were born and raised in France appreciate the accomplishment of their home country being described as "Africa wins"?

Probably. They could well be proud African-Frenchmen.

You do know, it's a comedy show and was a joke?

You do get that Africa wasn't playing right? These guys played for France? Their home country is France. France won. This was a tournament of nations, and as was pointed out earlier, Africa isn't even a country. There were many people of African descent that lost. There were even African countries that lost.

It was a cheap (and stupid) political point. Not a joke. We can tell because it's not funny.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Probably. They could well be proud African-Frenchmen.

You do know, it's a comedy show and was a joke?

You do get that Africa wasn't playing right? These guys played for France? Their home country is France. France won. This was a tournament of nations, and as was pointed out earlier, Africa isn't even a country. There were many people of African descent that lost. There were even African countries that lost.

It was a cheap (and stupid) political point. Not a joke. We can tell because it's not funny.

If an African country had won, the joke would've made no sense.

I thought it was funny. Not the funniest, but not offensive either.

But just for fun - what political cheap shot was Noah taking?

 

[dismal]

Probably. They could well be proud African-Frenchmen.

You do know, it's a comedy show and was a joke?

You do get that Africa wasn't playing right? These guys played for France? Their home country is France. France won. This was a tournament of nations, and as was pointed out earlier, Africa isn't even a country. There were many people of African descent that lost. There were even African countries that lost.

It was a cheap (and stupid) political point. Not a joke. We can tell because it's not funny.

If an African country had won, the joke would've made no sense.

I thought it was funny. Not the funniest, but not offensive either.

But just for fun - what political cheap shot was Noah taking?

Really, what's funny about it?

I said "political point" not cheap shot. The political point is that immigrants are super-awesome. Saving babies on balconies one day, being good at soccer the next.

 

[Horatio Parker]

If an African country had won, the joke would've made no sense.

I thought it was funny. Not the funniest, but not offensive either.

But just for fun - what political cheap shot was Noah taking?

Really, what's funny about it?

I asked first.

 

[whollygoats]

Yeah...What part of France do the names Mbappe, or N'Golo, or Umtiti originate? Do you know?

Mbappe and Kante were born in Paris, Pogba was born in Lagny-sur-Marne, Matuidi was born in Toulose, Giroud was born in Chambery, Griezmann was born in Macon, Lloris was born in Nice.

Those are places in France.

And Mbappe's lineage in France goes clear back to when his father moved to France from Cameroon. Yeah, an ancient French name.

N'Golo Kante's name arises from the Bamana Empire of Saharan Africa, now Mali. Of course, though, it is yet another ancient French name.

While Samuel Umtiti was born in Cameroon and his family moved to France when he was two.

I suspect there is some very strong and vibrant African heritage amongst such French citizens. I see nothing wrong with such and find it odd that it should be such a flap.

I commented on the apparent diversity of the French team compared to the Croatian one as I watched the game. So what?

 

[Juma]

Yeah...What part of France do the names Mbappe, or N'Golo, or Umtiti originate? Do you know?

Mbappe and Kante were born in Paris, Pogba was born in Lagny-sur-Marne, Matuidi was born in Toulose, Giroud was born in Chambery, Griezmann was born in Macon, Lloris was born in Nice.

Those are places in France.

And Mbappe's lineage in France goes clear back to when his father moved to France from Cameroon. Yeah, an ancient French name.

N'Golo Kante's name arises from the Bamana Empire of Saharan Africa, now Mali. Of course, though, it is yet another ancient French name.

While Samuel Umtiti was born in Cameroon and his family moved to France when he was two.

I suspect there is some very strong and vibrant African heritage amongst such French citizens. I see nothing wrong with such and find it odd that it should be such a flap.

I commented on the apparent diversity of the French team compared to the Croatian one as I watched the game. So what?

I despice heritage as s rewuirement for your/my identity. We are individuals and should be free to build our own life. Your colour doesnt enter in the equation at all.

 

[dismal]

Yeah...What part of France do the names Mbappe, or N'Golo, or Umtiti originate? Do you know?

Mbappe and Kante were born in Paris, Pogba was born in Lagny-sur-Marne, Matuidi was born in Toulose, Giroud was born in Chambery, Griezmann was born in Macon, Lloris was born in Nice.

Those are places in France.

And Mbappe's lineage in France goes clear back to when his father moved to France from Cameroon. Yeah, an ancient French name.

N'Golo Kante's name arises from the Bamana Empire of Saharan Africa, now Mali. Of course, though, it is yet another ancient French name.

While Samuel Umtiti was born in Cameroon and his family moved to France when he was two.

I suspect there is some very strong and vibrant African heritage amongst such French citizens. I see nothing wrong with such and find it odd that it should be such a flap.

I commented on the apparent diversity of the French team compared to the Croatian one as I watched the game. So what?

Not sure what this obsession you have with names is about. Is your point their names make these guys less French?

 

[whollygoats]

And Mbappe's lineage in France goes clear back to when his father moved to France from Cameroon. Yeah, an ancient French name.

N'Golo Kante's name arises from the Bamana Empire of Saharan Africa, now Mali. Of course, though, it is yet another ancient French name.

While Samuel Umtiti was born in Cameroon and his family moved to France when he was two.

I suspect there is some very strong and vibrant African heritage amongst such French citizens. I see nothing wrong with such and find it odd that it should be such a flap.

I commented on the apparent diversity of the French team compared to the Croatian one as I watched the game. So what?

Not sure what this obsession you have with names is about. Is your point their names make these guys less French?

Excuse me? So, it's your ability to comprehend simple concepts which is dismal. Got it.... Nice selection of an avatar name, dood; very descriptive.

The point is that these individuals exhibit evidences of their familial histories being quite non-European, and thus quite non-French. And, it turns out it is all quite recent, lending credence to the supposition that African cultural traits might still be present in a significant way in the lives of these particular French individuals. Or, were you too dismally dense to ascertain such?

 

[dismal]

And Mbappe's lineage in France goes clear back to when his father moved to France from Cameroon. Yeah, an ancient French name.

N'Golo Kante's name arises from the Bamana Empire of Saharan Africa, now Mali. Of course, though, it is yet another ancient French name.

While Samuel Umtiti was born in Cameroon and his family moved to France when he was two.

I suspect there is some very strong and vibrant African heritage amongst such French citizens. I see nothing wrong with such and find it odd that it should be such a flap.

I commented on the apparent diversity of the French team compared to the Croatian one as I watched the game. So what?

Not sure what this obsession you have with names is about. Is your point their names make these guys less French?

Excuse me? So, it's your ability to comprehend simple concepts which is dismal. Got it.... Nice selection of an avatar name, dood; very descriptive.

The point is that these individuals exhibit evidences of their familial histories being quite non-European, and thus quite non-French. And, it turns out it is all quite recent, lending credence to the supposition that African cultural traits might still be present in a significant way in the lives of these particular French individuals. Or, were you too dismally dense to ascertain such?

That really doesn't explain why you keep bringing up these guys names.

No one is debating whether (some of) these guys have African ancestry. This is understood by all.

What is not understood by me is why it is desirable to act as if they are not French. The players themselves don't seem very happy about it. I saw this article about it today.

https://qz.com/1331734/trevor-noahs-world-cup-joke-shows-how-the-world-misunderstands-the-french/

This tweet from one of the players is mentioned in the article:

https://twitter.com/benmendy23/status/1019269986282598403

This tweet from French basketball player Nick Batum highlights the issue:

https://twitter.com/nicolas88batum/...hows-how-the-world-misunderstands-the-french/

This may be of particularly educational to you because he even mentions his name not sounding French, but he's proud to be FRENCH.

 

[Horatio Parker]

If an African country had won, the joke would've made no sense.

I thought it was funny. Not the funniest, but not offensive either.

But just for fun - what political cheap shot was Noah taking?

Really, what's funny about it?

I said "political point" not cheap shot. The political point is that immigrants are super-awesome. Saving babies on balconies one day, being good at soccer the next.

Yeah, when they're good, they're Frenchmen. When they're criminals or on welfare, they're African immigrants.

That wasn't Trevor's point (did you listen to his explanation?). If England had won with a large Irish contingent on their team, then an Irishman might joke in a similar way.

 

[dismal]

If an African country had won, the joke would've made no sense.

I thought it was funny. Not the funniest, but not offensive either.

But just for fun - what political cheap shot was Noah taking?

Really, what's funny about it?

I said "political point" not cheap shot. The political point is that immigrants are super-awesome. Saving babies on balconies one day, being good at soccer the next.

Yeah, when they're good, they're Frenchmen. When they're criminals or on welfare, they're African immigrants.

So, how does this rationalize treating the players as something other than French? Have you actually spent a second thinking about what you are defending? You seem to be on the wrong side of your own arguments. "It's bad when the children of immigrants born and raised in France are not thought of as French, so I'm here to defend them being called Africans". Doesn't seem well thought out.

That wasn't Trevor's point (did you listen to his explanation?). If England had won with a large Irish contingent on their team, then an Irishman might joke in a similar way.

When the players themselves object to the insensitivity of his comment, why would you defend what he said.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Yeah, when they're good, they're Frenchmen. When they're criminals or on welfare, they're African immigrants.

So, how does this rationalize treating the players as something other than French? Have you actually spent a second thinking about what you are defending? You seem to be on the wrong side of your own arguments. "It's bad when the children of immigrants born and raised in France are not thought of as French, so I'm here to defend them being called Africans". Doesn't seem well thought out.

That they're "not French" is your argument. Typical dismal, portraying positions which no one has taken.

That wasn't Trevor's point (did you listen to his explanation?). If England had won with a large Irish contingent on their team, then an Irishman might joke in a similar way.

When the players themselves object to the insensitivity of his comment, why would you defend what he said.

How do the players invalidate Noah's feelings? As an African, he's proud of their contribution to the victory.

I'm not surprised that the players want no part of a political brouhaha.

 

[repoman]

I am literally shaking now!



But seriously, the Cernovich crew or similar could have signal boosted this old clip.

As an aside, I don't think that Trevor Noah has very good comic timing. However, hearing him talk regularly is interesting and enlightening. Smart guy, but just not so funny in his role.

 

[dismal]

That they're "not French" is your argument. Typical dismal, portraying positions which no one has taken.

Wow. Maybe we need to take a step back and enhance your remedial level of understanding of what is going on here.

1) Trevor Noah put up a picture of the French world cup winning soccer team, which includes several French people of African descent, and said "Africa wins".
2) Many, including some of the French players, have objected because they are not African, they are French, and proud to be French. Proud to have won for their country. They feel calling them "African" diminishes their Frenchness.
3) You are defending Noah, I have take the French player's side.

 

[whollygoats]

Mesut Ozil.