Trump says that American Jews who vote for Democrats are being disloyal ---- to Israel?!?

[repoman]

How much money does he and his cronies have tied up with Israel? Because there is no way he cares about Israel (or ANYBODY) from a compassionate place, heartless bastard he is.

This is beyond parody and really overdoing it.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Trump, a Mexican immigrant, and a black guy encounter a genie. Doesn't matter how. The genie says, "I'll grant each of you one wish." The Mexican says, "I want a safe place where my people can live our own lives, with no immigration agents around, and no harassment from the Anglo community." The genie says, "Granted." The black guy says, "I want a true homeland for my brothers and sisters, with the land we were promised all those years ago by Whitey." The genie says, "Granted." Trump says, "Am I getting this? The Mexicans are gonna live in their own space, and the blacks are gonna be in their own space?" The genie says, "That is so." Trump says, "Fuck it, I'll have a slice of chocolate cake."

 

[Elixir]

Trump, a Mexican immigrant, and a black guy encounter a genie. Doesn't matter how. The genie says, "I'll grant each of you one wish." The Mexican says, "I want a safe place where my people can live our own lives, with no immigration agents around, and no harassment from the Anglo community." The genie says, "Granted." The black guy says, "I want a true homeland for my brothers and sisters, with the land we were promised all those years ago by Whitey." The genie says, "Granted." Trump says, "Am I getting this? The Mexicans are gonna live in their own space, and the blacks are gonna be in their own space?" The genie says, "That is so." Trump says, "Fuck it, I'll have a slice of chocolate cake."

Ya sure yabetcha. Like lardass Trump wouldn't want the whole cake...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We have long since reached 25th amendment territory.

 

[southernhybrid]

We have long since reached 25th amendment territory.

Sure. But, it requires cooperation from the cabinet members and the VP to use the 25th amendment. Considering that Trump has filled his cabinet with sycophants, it's not going to happen.

 

[ronburgundy]

Actually, this seems to be one of the least factually untrue statements Trump has made since taking office. Overall, the Democrats are less blindly loyal to defending every action by Israel, and is at least somewhat sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians. So, supporting the Dems over the GOP is showing less blind nationalistic loyalty to the current government of Israel. I would bet that the majority of American Jews would have no problem acknowledging that they don't blindly support the Israeli government without regard for ethics or human decency (which is all that "disloyalty" means).

Of course such disloyalty to a sitting government is only seen as a negative by dangerous authoritarian fascists, so what Trump was ultimately saying is "I am a dangerous authoritarian fascist." But I don't see how that is news to anyone.

 

[Elixir]

Actually, this seems to be one of the least factually untrue statements Trump has made since taking office.

That might be the least meaningful sentence ever posted on TFT.
By what metric does one rate the relative factual untruthfulness of more than 10,000 lies?
And what are the resultant ratings groups? Wrong, extra-wrong, super wrong and hyper-wrong?
Wrong is wrong. And most of what Trump ever says, is wrong.
Now, if he were actually say, rather than inadvertently admit or imply "I am a dangerous authoritarian fascist." - that would be noteworthy.

 

[Ford]

And his supporters - who scream "speak English!" at immigrants or lose their mind when someone flies the Mexican flag - suddenly have no problem whatsoever with divided loyalty.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Actually, this seems to be one of the least factually untrue statements Trump has made since taking office.

That might be the least meaningful sentence ever posted on TFT.
By what metric does one rate the relative factual untruthfulness of more than 10,000 lies?
And what are the resultant ratings groups? Wrong, extra-wrong, super wrong and hyper-wrong?
Wrong is wrong. And most of what Trump ever says, is wrong.
.

i would say tge categories rise from the relativity.
Sort lies by
1) requires direct involvement of a divine being in order to be true (ie: I am The Chosen One)
2) requires suspension, permanent or temporary, of known physical laws of the universe in order to be true (ie: climate change)
3) requires suspension , P or T, of the laws of the land (ie: businesses are hereby ordered to... )
4) merely requires forgetting whatever Bonespurs said more than four minutes ago (ie: Nazis, backgroud checks, i will take credit for the shutdown....)
5) shit he makes up on the fly like the kid who did not read the book, not even the dust jacket, and is put on the spot by the teacher (ie: I have to start by saying I'm a big fan, a very big fan, of the United Nations and all it stands for... the concept of the United Nations and the fact that the United Nations is in New York is very important to me and very important to the world, as far as I am concerned. So I am a big fan.)

And so on...

 

[Half-Life]

Israel is mostly for Jews. They do have a 21% Arab population living there. Ethnostate? LOL!

Imagine there was a country set up for mostly atheists. How many atheists would be saying, "I hate that country! I don't want no part of that atheistic country!"

There are self-hating Jews just as there are self-hating whites on this forum.

 

[Patooka]

Israel is mostly for Jews. They do have a 21% Arab population living there. Ethnostate? LOL!

Imagine there was a country set up for mostly atheists. How many atheists would be saying, "I hate that country! I don't want no part of that atheistic country!"

There are self-hating Jews just as there are self-hating whites on this forum.

And now you have the opportunity to show examples of these self hating Jews. Don't worry, I've just got the new season of Orange is the New Black to binge watch - I know I'm going to be waiting a while asking you to back up your claims with facts.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We have long since reached 25th amendment territory.

Sure. But, it requires cooperation from the cabinet members and the VP to use the 25th amendment. Considering that Trump has filled his cabinet with sycophants, it's not going to happen.

We need to beef up the 25th so the decision isn't made by people he controls.

 

[ronburgundy]

Actually, this seems to be one of the least factually untrue statements Trump has made since taking office.

That might be the least meaningful sentence ever posted on TFT.
By what metric does one rate the relative factual untruthfulness of more than 10,000 lies?
And what are the resultant ratings groups? Wrong, extra-wrong, super wrong and hyper-wrong?
Wrong is wrong. And most of what Trump ever says, is wrong.
Now, if he were actually say, rather than inadvertently admit or imply "I am a dangerous authoritarian fascist." - that would be noteworthy.

Well, if you read the rest of my post, I was clearly using "least untrue" as an opening volley to argue that it's actually not untrue, but essentially accurate in factual terms, so long as "Israel" is taken to mean the current government of Israel and therefore their policies, which is what the word "Israel" often refers to, especially in the context of "disloyal" which implies to an authority. The problem with his statement is not in it being untrue but in the authoritarian ethics behind Trump's presumption that that it is a bad thing to be disloyal to a government, which simply means to not be blindly obedient to it no matter what it does.

Also, like Keith, I would disagree that "wrong is wrong", both for the reasons he stated and similarly b/c a statement can be wrong in what it says (errors of omission) or wrong b/c it leaves out important information (errors of commission). And that difference can matter in terms of either the level of stupidity or the level of dishonesty underlying the error. Plus, there a statements that are not technically wrong b/c one possible interpretation of the words used makes it correct, but what that implies depends on whether that interpretation is the most common/reasonable and whether it's likely that is what the speaker meant.

As I said above, in this case I think Trump meant an interpretation that actually is fairly common and that interpretation makes his statement factually true. The irony being that the interpretation that makes his statement true also makes it heinously fascistic and authoritarian.

 

[ronburgundy]

And his supporters - who scream "speak English!" at immigrants or lose their mind when someone flies the Mexican flag - suddenly have no problem whatsoever with divided loyalty.

To be fair, Trumps' supporters don't think people should be loyal to the US government in general, only when it's controlled by white supremacist misogynists who in turn support the government of Israel in it's attack against Muslims and those who they view as being less white. If one government is being loyal to another, then being loyal to one doesn't require being loyal to the other.

 

[ronburgundy]

Israel is mostly for Jews. They do have a 21% Arab population living there. Ethnostate? LOL!

Imagine there was a country set up for mostly atheists. How many atheists would be saying, "I hate that country! I don't want no part of that atheistic country!"

There are self-hating Jews just as there are self-hating whites on this forum.

And now you have the opportunity to show examples of these self hating Jews. Don't worry, I've just got the new season of Orange is the New Black to binge watch - I know I'm going to be waiting a while asking you to back up your claims with facts.

Well, the closest example I know of is the alt-right conservative and long time Republican Ron Unz, who is ethnically Jewish by birth by doesn't appear to practice the religion. He has personally written and published (via The American Conservative and his own website Unz.com)a number of highly anti-semitic articles (objectively and recognized as such by the ADL), that in addition to denying the holocaust, refer to Jews as "an alien presence in the US", complains about Jews being over-represented at Universities, and generally blames the "Jewish elite" for most of the world's problems. His own website of 3 million visitors per month has been shown to have highly shared viewership and content with other sites that are overtly anti-semitic (and white nationalist) like Amren, Vdare, and Russia-insider.

These are the kinds of attack's on Jews as an ethnic group that qualify as anti-Semitic and thus as self-hating when coming from a member of that ethnic group. And virtually none of comes from white liberals or left leaning Jews, with the majority coming from white conservatives and the alt-right in the US, and a sprinkling from the bigots in the black nationalist movement and the Nation of Islam crowd.

Being critical of the Israeli government has zero to do with anti-semitism nor therefore being a "self-hating Jew", since the government of Israel is not an ethnic group, does not represent the vast majority of people who belong to that ethnic group, and is even hostile to the interests of many in that group. Especially, since being critical of the Jewish religion has nothing to do with being anti-semitic either, since ethnic semitism and choosing to believe in a particular religious ideology are completely separate things.

 

[Half-Life]

And his supporters - who scream "speak English!" at immigrants or lose their mind when someone flies the Mexican flag - suddenly have no problem whatsoever with divided loyalty.

To be fair, Trumps' supporters don't think people should be loyal to the US government in general, only when it's controlled by white supremacist misogynists who in turn support the government of Israel in it's attack against Muslims and those who they view as being less white. If one government is being loyal to another, then being loyal to one doesn't require being loyal to the other.

Do you believe that Italians who wave the Italian flag in the U.S. have dual loyalty to U.S. and Italy?

Do you believe Israel should give the land to Palestine? If so, when will you protest about giving up your land to the Native Americans?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And his supporters - who scream "speak English!" at immigrants or lose their mind when someone flies the Mexican flag - suddenly have no problem whatsoever with divided loyalty.

To be fair, Trumps' supporters don't think people should be loyal to the US government in general, only when it's controlled by white supremacist misogynists who in turn support the government of Israel in it's attack against Muslims and those who they view as being less white. If one government is being loyal to another, then being loyal to one doesn't require being loyal to the other.

Do you believe that Italians who wave the Italian flag in the U.S. have dual loyalty to U.S. and Italy?

Do you believe Israel should give the land to Palestine? If so, when will you protest about giving up your land to the Native Americans?

I wasn't aware that Half-Life gave his land back to Native Americans. Might explain their distaste of white women... somehow.

 

[Gun Nut]

Israel is mostly for Jews. They do have a 21% Arab population living there. Ethnostate? LOL!

Imagine there was a country set up for mostly atheists. How many atheists would be saying, "I hate that country! I don't want no part of that atheistic country!"

There are self-hating Jews just as there are self-hating whites on this forum.

Are those the two possible choices? Complete unturnable loyalty or unadulterated extreme hatred? You should have your Lithium dose reevaluated.

There are two major tribes of Jews left in the world. The Ashkinazi, from Europe, and the Sephardi, from the Middle East.
Sephardi Jews are generally overly-sympathetic to Israel and I would go as far to say the American ones have a split loyalty... and tend to lean politically to the right.
Ashkenazi Jews are generally Liberal Democratic, very Western influenced, and tend to lean politically to the Left... and are less sympathetic to Israel.

Neither group generally hates Israel. As in all groups, there is a spectrum of opinions.