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Trump's Disastrous Pledge to Keep Jobs in the U.S.

Axulus

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Let’s consider how such a policy would be enforced in practice.

When an American company “moves jobs to Mexico,” it doesn’t disassemble a factory and load all of the parts onto border-crossing trucks. That might be relatively easy to stop. Instead, the company closes or limits some U.S. production while expanding or initiating new production south of the border. Given that reality, how is government supposed to respond?

Using the law to forbid factory closures would have serious negative consequences. For one thing, those factories may be losing money and end up going bankrupt. For another, stopping the closure of old plants would lock the U.S. into earlier technologies and modes of production, limiting progress and economic advancement.

An alternative policy would prohibit companies from cutting American production and expanding in Mexico within, say, a two-year window. But would that be effective? If a law is needed, it presumably means that Mexican production is more profitable, at the margin, than U.S. production. So if American companies couldn’t shift production to Mexico, Mexican companies could expand production on their own. Or perhaps Mexico would look to non-American multinationals. The end result would be that Asian, European and Mexican investors would gain at the expense of U.S. companies.

American investors could also work around the law. If regulations prevented, say, Ford Motor Company from transferring its own capital funds to Mexico, what would keep it from using affiliates, subsidiaries, commercial alliances, or a complex web of foreign transfers to achieve more or less the same ends? The initial restrictions might prove as porous as the U.S. corporate income tax system.

Furthermore, if we limit the export of American capital to Mexico, the biggest winner would be China, as one of its most significant low-wage competitors -- Mexico -- suddenly would be hobbled.

...

The biggest irony of this whole Trump initiative is that it likely would lead to higher U.S. trade deficits. Economists stress the offsetting nature of trade flows and capital flows. As the accounting identities are constructed, a higher trade deficit corresponds to higher capital inflows, and a lower trade deficit corresponds to higher capital outflows. (To see the nature of these balanced transactions, imagine China selling goods and accumulating Treasury bills in return, a form of investment in this country.) So a Trumpian plan to limit capital outflows, through whatever means, is also -- if only indirectly and without such intent -- a plan to boost the trade deficit.

How’s that for making America great again? The laws of economics and politics have not yet been repealed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...conomics&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Another thing to consider - new companies will be less likely to want to open up any kind of production in the US. Once you open up a business in the US and hire people, those jobs will be trapped there regardless of whether you want to reduce production in the US or not. Best to open up your business in a different country that allows for flexible production expansion and reduction decisions that doesn't have such an archaic crony capitalist system with arbitrary government power.
 
Let’s consider how such a policy would be enforced in practice.

When an American company “moves jobs to Mexico,” it doesn’t disassemble a factory and load all of the parts onto border-crossing trucks. That might be relatively easy to stop. Instead, the company closes or limits some U.S. production while expanding or initiating new production south of the border. Given that reality, how is government supposed to respond?

Using the law to forbid factory closures would have serious negative consequences. For one thing, those factories may be losing money and end up going bankrupt. For another, stopping the closure of old plants would lock the U.S. into earlier technologies and modes of production, limiting progress and economic advancement.

An alternative policy would prohibit companies from cutting American production and expanding in Mexico within, say, a two-year window. But would that be effective? If a law is needed, it presumably means that Mexican production is more profitable, at the margin, than U.S. production. So if American companies couldn’t shift production to Mexico, Mexican companies could expand production on their own. Or perhaps Mexico would look to non-American multinationals. The end result would be that Asian, European and Mexican investors would gain at the expense of U.S. companies.

American investors could also work around the law. If regulations prevented, say, Ford Motor Company from transferring its own capital funds to Mexico, what would keep it from using affiliates, subsidiaries, commercial alliances, or a complex web of foreign transfers to achieve more or less the same ends? The initial restrictions might prove as porous as the U.S. corporate income tax system.

Furthermore, if we limit the export of American capital to Mexico, the biggest winner would be China, as one of its most significant low-wage competitors -- Mexico -- suddenly would be hobbled.

...

The biggest irony of this whole Trump initiative is that it likely would lead to higher U.S. trade deficits. Economists stress the offsetting nature of trade flows and capital flows. As the accounting identities are constructed, a higher trade deficit corresponds to higher capital inflows, and a lower trade deficit corresponds to higher capital outflows. (To see the nature of these balanced transactions, imagine China selling goods and accumulating Treasury bills in return, a form of investment in this country.) So a Trumpian plan to limit capital outflows, through whatever means, is also -- if only indirectly and without such intent -- a plan to boost the trade deficit.

How’s that for making America great again? The laws of economics and politics have not yet been repealed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...conomics&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Another thing to consider - new companies will be less likely to want to open up any kind of production in the US. Once you open up a business in the US and hire people, those jobs will be trapped there regardless of whether you want to reduce production in the US or not. Best to open up your business in a different country that allows for flexible production expansion and reduction decisions that doesn't have such an archaic crony capitalist system with arbitrary government power.

Or you could just lower corporate taxes and regulations to encourage business to stay and invest; use the bully pulpit to support American jobs. I agree that there should not be laws punishing business that leave or outsource.
 
Let’s consider how such a policy would be enforced in practice.

When an American company “moves jobs to Mexico,” it doesn’t disassemble a factory and load all of the parts onto border-crossing trucks. That might be relatively easy to stop. Instead, the company closes or limits some U.S. production while expanding or initiating new production south of the border. Given that reality, how is government supposed to respond?

Using the law to forbid factory closures would have serious negative consequences. For one thing, those factories may be losing money and end up going bankrupt. For another, stopping the closure of old plants would lock the U.S. into earlier technologies and modes of production, limiting progress and economic advancement.

An alternative policy would prohibit companies from cutting American production and expanding in Mexico within, say, a two-year window. But would that be effective? If a law is needed, it presumably means that Mexican production is more profitable, at the margin, than U.S. production. So if American companies couldn’t shift production to Mexico, Mexican companies could expand production on their own. Or perhaps Mexico would look to non-American multinationals. The end result would be that Asian, European and Mexican investors would gain at the expense of U.S. companies.

American investors could also work around the law. If regulations prevented, say, Ford Motor Company from transferring its own capital funds to Mexico, what would keep it from using affiliates, subsidiaries, commercial alliances, or a complex web of foreign transfers to achieve more or less the same ends? The initial restrictions might prove as porous as the U.S. corporate income tax system.

Furthermore, if we limit the export of American capital to Mexico, the biggest winner would be China, as one of its most significant low-wage competitors -- Mexico -- suddenly would be hobbled.

...

The biggest irony of this whole Trump initiative is that it likely would lead to higher U.S. trade deficits. Economists stress the offsetting nature of trade flows and capital flows. As the accounting identities are constructed, a higher trade deficit corresponds to higher capital inflows, and a lower trade deficit corresponds to higher capital outflows. (To see the nature of these balanced transactions, imagine China selling goods and accumulating Treasury bills in return, a form of investment in this country.) So a Trumpian plan to limit capital outflows, through whatever means, is also -- if only indirectly and without such intent -- a plan to boost the trade deficit.

How’s that for making America great again? The laws of economics and politics have not yet been repealed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...conomics&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Another thing to consider - new companies will be less likely to want to open up any kind of production in the US. Once you open up a business in the US and hire people, those jobs will be trapped there regardless of whether you want to reduce production in the US or not. Best to open up your business in a different country that allows for flexible production expansion and reduction decisions that doesn't have such an archaic crony capitalist system with arbitrary government power.
Rubbish. Much like how the Neocons knew how things would turn out well in Iraq, critics be damned, the Trump Admin has a good handle on things, critics be damned.

Trying to undo globalization is like putting toothpaste back in the tube.
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...conomics&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Another thing to consider - new companies will be less likely to want to open up any kind of production in the US. Once you open up a business in the US and hire people, those jobs will be trapped there regardless of whether you want to reduce production in the US or not. Best to open up your business in a different country that allows for flexible production expansion and reduction decisions that doesn't have such an archaic crony capitalist system with arbitrary government power.
Or you could just lower corporate taxes...
Uh huh. The debilitating corporate tax rates we keep hearing about. I have no idea how Silicon Valley ever managed to develop. Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that effective tax rates are lower than the right-wing advertised rate... and that many corporations don't even pay income taxes.
 
Or you could just lower corporate taxes...
Uh huh. The debilitating corporate tax rates we keep hearing about. I have no idea how Silicon Valley ever managed to develop. Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that effective tax rates are lower than the right-wing advertised rate... and that many corporations don't even pay income taxes.

Actually, if (big IF) Trump could get (and actually wants this change) Congress to revamp the byzantine corporate tax code to something very simple and at a 13-15% rate, that would probably be a positive thing. The last numbers I have seen have the average rate paid currently right around 13%, so tax revenue wouldn't be lost. And companies wouldn't waste time or energy figuring out how to work the tax system. The Huuuuuyyyge roadblock I see is the congressional critters. Without a byzantine tax code, why would corporations lavish money on the critters every election cycle. It's not like this is lost on the critters....
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...conomics&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Another thing to consider - new companies will be less likely to want to open up any kind of production in the US. Once you open up a business in the US and hire people, those jobs will be trapped there regardless of whether you want to reduce production in the US or not. Best to open up your business in a different country that allows for flexible production expansion and reduction decisions that doesn't have such an archaic crony capitalist system with arbitrary government power.

Or you could just lower corporate taxes and regulations to encourage business to stay and invest; use the bully pulpit to support American jobs. I agree that there should not be laws punishing business that leave or outsource.

It would be cheaper to simply bribe the CEOs of those Companies (using taxpayer money of course) into keeping their factories stateside, rather than make taxpayers foot the bill for yet more subsidies to bloated executive pay and reducing the retail price of their products... :rolleyes:

Actually, if (big IF) Trump could get (and actually wants this change) Congress to revamp the byzantine corporate tax code to something very simple and at a 13-15% rate, that would probably be a positive thing. The last numbers I have seen have the average rate paid currently right around 13%, so tax revenue wouldn't be lost. And companies wouldn't waste time or energy figuring out how to work the tax system. The Huuuuuyyyge roadblock I see is the congressional critters. Without a byzantine tax code, why would corporations lavish money on the critters every election cycle. It's not like this is lost on the critters....

Agree.
 
Or you could just lower corporate taxes and regulations to encourage business to stay and invest; use the bully pulpit to support American jobs. I agree that there should not be laws punishing business that leave or outsource.

It would be cheaper to simply bribe the CEOs of those Companies (using taxpayer money of course) into keeping their factories stateside, rather than make taxpayers foot the bill for yet more subsidies to bloated executive pay and reducing the retail price of their products... :rolleyes:

When the EU does this, it's called a grant (free money) to move whole companies out of the UK and relocate in Europe. Of a foreign company can get EU grant to purchase an English company.
If the companies are paying the workers (in the US) instead of the government paying them to do nothing, that's not bad.
 
It would be cheaper to simply bribe the CEOs of those Companies (using taxpayer money of course) into keeping their factories stateside, rather than make taxpayers foot the bill for yet more subsidies to bloated executive pay and reducing the retail price of their products... :rolleyes:

When the EU does this, it's called a grant (free money) to move whole companies out of the UK and relocate in Europe.

And whose money are they using to fund those "grants"? Certainly not the Queen's...
 
The Huuuuuyyyge roadblock I see is the congressional critters. Without a byzantine tax code, why would corporations lavish money on the critters every election cycle. It's not like this is lost on the critters....


It is almost like corporate America wants the tax code - with all those loopholes - remain more or less exactly as it is now.

Kinda like the illegal immigration thing. Politicians certainly make a big noise about all the illegal immigrants, but the business community? Not so much.

:thinking:
 
The Huuuuuyyyge roadblock I see is the congressional critters. Without a byzantine tax code, why would corporations lavish money on the critters every election cycle. It's not like this is lost on the critters....


It is almost like corporate America wants the tax code - with all those loopholes - remain more or less exactly as it is now.
Meh....I think a large majority of 'corporate America' would be quite happy with a flat-simple and low tax rate on them. But they do understand the game, and don't want to piss off the critters, as they are kind of like gremlins being fed after midnight.

Kinda like the illegal immigration thing. Politicians certainly make a big noise about all the illegal immigrants, but the business community? Not so much.

:thinking:
Yeah, businesses don't care much about the immigration issue. But farmers do and the fruit and veggie farms would be in a world of hurt with a mindless and aggressive deportation plan. Unless he wants to expand the green card program...that would be funny to see the Repugs consider.
 
It is almost like corporate America wants the tax code - with all those loopholes - remain more or less exactly as it is now.
Meh....I think a large majority of 'corporate America' would be quite happy with a flat-simple and low tax rate on them. But they do understand the game, and don't want to piss off the critters, as they are kind of like gremlins being fed after midnight.

Kinda like the illegal immigration thing. Politicians certainly make a big noise about all the illegal immigrants, but the business community? Not so much.

:thinking:
Yeah, businesses don't care much about the immigration issue. But farmers do and the fruit and veggie farms would be in a world of hurt with a mindless and aggressive deportation plan. Unless he wants to expand the green card program...that would be funny to see the Repugs consider.

They could always come over legally on an employment contract
 
They could always come over legally on an employment contract

Yeah, they could always do that! Just email that employment contract to jose@middleofthesonoradesert.com

And if they have no money for bread (which is why they wanted to "come over" in the first place) let them eat tortillas!
Better yet - screw 'em. If the poor ones can't make it, we'll get the rich ones to "come over" and pick lettuce.</teh stoopid>
 
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Meh....I think a large majority of 'corporate America' would be quite happy with a flat-simple and low tax rate on them. But they do understand the game, and don't want to piss off the critters, as they are kind of like gremlins being fed after midnight.

Kinda like the illegal immigration thing. Politicians certainly make a big noise about all the illegal immigrants, but the business community? Not so much.

:thinking:
Yeah, businesses don't care much about the immigration issue. But farmers do and the fruit and veggie farms would be in a world of hurt with a mindless and aggressive deportation plan. Unless he wants to expand the green card program...that would be funny to see the Repugs consider.

They could always come over legally on an employment contract
WTF? We already have such a program. However, it is quite limited and well below the number of pickers our farmers currently need, ergo the illegal route... Like I said, it would be funny to see the Repugs struggle with that reality...
 
They could always come over legally on an employment contract.
WTF? We already have such a program. However, it is quite limited and well below the number of pickers our farmers currently need...



B-b-b-but they "could always" get employment contracts in advance! I have that on good authority. :p
 
When the EU does this, it's called a grant (free money) to move whole companies out of the UK and relocate in Europe.

And whose money are they using to fund those "grants"? Certainly not the Queen's...

Britain contributes to the EU so technically its own money is used, so that unfair practices can be used to give others grants to decimate Britain's industry and shift it over to less fortunate countries in a whole series of FUBARs.

There is nothing wrong with a country retaining its own jobs to protect the jobs for its own workers. It's workers then spend in the economy thus creating more jobs in retail, housing and just about everything else.
 
They could always come over legally on an employment contract

Yeah, they could always do that! Just email that employment contract to jose@middleofthesonoradesert.com

And if they have no money for bread (which is why they wanted to "come over" in the first place) let them eat tortillas!
Better yet - screw 'em. If the poor ones can't make it, we'll get the rich ones to "come over" and pick lettuce.</teh stoopid>

First the contract, but then on entry the contract is further ratified subject to passing any medical tests and background checks including police records. To protect local jobs (as done in Hong Kong) laws in place will ensure that foreign workers can only be paid the same or more than local workers. This will stem the tide of foreign workers but ensure those who come have the same standards of pay as local ones. Hong Kong didn't do badly on this policy at all.

In some cases the employer will provide accommodation. The US picked its lettuce, made its beds and its lawns were mowed long before it used imported labour.

- - - Updated - - -

They could always come over legally on an employment contract.



B-b-b-but they "could always" get employment contracts in advance! I have that on good authority. :p

A contract of employment as in all other countries is part of the pre requisite requirements for coming over on a contract which is supported by a work visa.
 
Yeah, they could always do that! Just email that employment contract to jose@middleofthesonoradesert.com

And if they have no money for bread (which is why they wanted to "come over" in the first place) let them eat tortillas!
Better yet - screw 'em. If the poor ones can't make it, we'll get the rich ones to "come over" and pick lettuce.</teh stoopid>


First the contract, but then on entry the contract is further ratified subject to passing any medical tests and background checks including police records. To protect local jobs (as done in Hong Kong) laws in place will ensure that foreign workers can only be paid the same or more than local workers. This will stem the tide of foreign workers but ensure those who come have the same standards of pay as local ones. Hong Kong didn't do badly on this policy at all.

In some cases the employer will provide accommodation. The US picked its lettuce, made its beds and its lawns were mowed long before it used imported labour.

- - - Updated - - -

They could always come over legally on an employment contract.



B-b-b-but they "could always" get employment contracts in advance! I have that on good authority. :p

A contract of employment as in all other countries is part of the pre requisite requirements for coming over on a contract which is supported by a work visa.


Only a complete moron thinks that some penniless, non-English-speaking Mexican peasant has the wherewithal to enter into employment contracts. Anyone with such capabilities and resources is NOT going to pick lettuce for the going rate. I guess you had another idea of what it's like to to be poor in Mexico.
Hint: It's not like having to give up Opera night or postpone the construction of the Summer Home...
 
First the contract, but then on entry the contract is further ratified subject to passing any medical tests and background checks including police records. To protect local jobs (as done in Hong Kong) laws in place will ensure that foreign workers can only be paid the same or more than local workers. This will stem the tide of foreign workers but ensure those who come have the same standards of pay as local ones. Hong Kong didn't do badly on this policy at all.

In some cases the employer will provide accommodation. The US picked its lettuce, made its beds and its lawns were mowed long before it used imported labour.

- - - Updated - - -

They could always come over legally on an employment contract.



B-b-b-but they "could always" get employment contracts in advance! I have that on good authority. :p

A contract of employment as in all other countries is part of the pre requisite requirements for coming over on a contract which is supported by a work visa.


Only a complete moron thinks that some penniless, non-English-speaking Mexican peasant has the wherewithal to enter into employment contracts. Anyone with such capabilities and resources is NOT going to pick lettuce for the going rate. I guess you had another idea of what it's like to to be poor in Mexico.
Hint: It's not like having to give up Opera night or postpone the construction of the Summer Home...

If, just like the rest of the world, the vacancy cannot be filled locally then foreign workers can be recruited on contract. Is this a problem for the USA, yet not a problem for other countries?
 
If, just like the rest of the world, the vacancy cannot be filled locally then foreign workers can be recruited on contract. Is this a problem for the USA, yet not a problem for other countries?

The rest of the world has no history of employing "illegal" immigrants at low wages? Guess I need to give you a primer, since you're oblivious to such trivia as how Dubai was built:

* Contracts cost money, and engender liabilities. Slave labor/indentured servitude is much cheaper.
* NOBODY in the US legally is going to pick lettuce as long as
* there are people willing to risk their lives to get to the US to pick lettuce at the going rate.

The first thing we need to do in order to implement your moronically simplistic and unrealistic "plan", is to kill/deport all 11 million illegals, and kill all the people in Mexico who are so poor that they would rather risk their lives to get into the US. The second thing is to spend a few hundred billion dollars building a wall across the entire southern US border, the Gulf of Mexico and a couple hundred miles out into the Pacific.

THEN, when the price of lettuce reached 3-400% of its current price, start negotiating with prospective Mexican employees. Hell- I doubt that Trump supporters eat vegetables anyhow, so they won't care...
 
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