Ukraine Trying to Liberate Itself from Itself

[barbos]

After US installed openly anti-russian puppet regime in Ukraine.

US didn't install anything. Ukrainians just kicked out the pro-russian puppet and now there is an understandable blowback from Russian meddling.

Matlock disagrees with you

 

[Jayjay]

US didn't install anything. Ukrainians just kicked out the pro-russian puppet and now there is an understandable blowback from Russian meddling.

Matlock disagrees with you

And McFaul disagrees with Matlock. Besides even Matlock was only talking about perception, not reality.

 

[barbos]

Matlock disagrees with you

And McFaul disagrees with Matlock. Besides even Matlock was only talking about perception, not reality.

McFaul is an idiot, and no, Matlock was talking about reality which is US interfering.
And McFaul is a filthy liar when he says he does not know why Yanukovich left 12 hours after the agreement.

 

[repoman]

The Ukrainians should have been trying to get the ethnic Russian population of Crimea down after their independence. By hook or by crook.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

Ethnic groups can be made into fifth columns.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Wait, what?

That's better.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, seeing that Russia wants to re-annex Ukraine, I would assume that would be the case until they re-annex Ukraine... or at least reestablish it as a Russian satellite.

The sad truth is that nobody wants or able to afford Ukraine, not EU, not Russia, hence this cry for help.

Yeah, thats why they never invaded Crimea and have nothing to do with this current nonsense. As for Jimmy Making fun of you... it's because you're being ridiculous again.

After US installed openly anti-russian puppet regime in Ukraine.

If they were our puppets things would be different over there.

What happened is the Russian puppet got kicked out.

 

[barbos]

After US installed openly anti-russian puppet regime in Ukraine.

If they were our puppets things would be different over there.

What happened is the Russian puppet got kicked out.

No true Scotsman fallacy?

 

[LordKiran]

The Ukrainians should have been trying to get the ethnic Russian population of Crimea down after their independence. By hook or by crook.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

Ethnic groups can be made into fifth columns.

No shit, Texas' existence is based on this concept.

Thing is, this only works if it is all directed by a foreign power, ideally with a natural border to you. So people still have no reason to think this is the case with general immigration.

 

[funinspace]

I thought this was an interesting article on the state of western Ukrainian democracy, and how it seems to be strengthening, along with their economy showing signs of turning around:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...racy-a-boost/?utm_term=.b236ecc66fdb#comments

Explanations of Ukraine’s vibrant democracy usually focus on two factors. First, there is the vitality of its civil society, the grass-roots initiatives and nongovernmental organizations that produced the Orange Revolution of 2004 and the Maidan Revolution of 2014 and that are still keeping the heat on the authorities and forcing them to play by democratic rules. Second, there is pressure from the West in general and the United States, the European Union, NATO and, in particular, the International Monetary Fund, which has made diplomatic and financial support conditional on continued democratic development in Ukraine.

These explanations are correct, but they miss what may be the most important driver of Ukrainian democracy: Putin’s war. The annexation of the Crimea and the occupation of the eastern Donbas have had several important consequences for Ukraine and its ability to sustain democracy.

Most obviously, by seizing these territories, Russia effectively disenfranchised Ukraine’s most authoritarian, pro-Soviet and pro-Russian populations. People who traditionally voted for authoritarian parties were denied a say in Ukraine’s post-revolutionary politics, thereby enabling the democrats to pursue their agendas without obstruction from the parties that historically opposed democracy. Yanukovych’s Party of Regions – a powerful machine that paid U.S. political consultant and Donald Trump confidante Paul Manafort $17 million for his political advice – has practically disappeared from Ukraine’s political landscape.

More on their economy
https://www.ft.com/content/9d2173a2-60d7-11e7-8814-0ac7eb84e5f1

A healthier democracy and economy will do more to thwart whatever machinations Putin has in mind...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If they were our puppets things would be different over there.

What happened is the Russian puppet got kicked out.

No true Scotsman fallacy?

Huh? I'm saying that the government acts nothing like our puppet so I see no reason to think it is our puppet.

 

[barbos]

No true Scotsman fallacy?

Huh? I'm saying that the government acts nothing like our puppet so I see no reason to think it is our puppet.

You don't always get what you want, even from your puppet.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

US didn't install anything. Ukrainians just kicked out the pro-russian puppet and now there is an understandable blowback from Russian meddling.

"Our puppet can beat up your puppet!"

'Murika!

Fuck yeah!

 

[ZiprHead]

Manafort’s Ukrainian ‘blood money’ caused qualms, hack suggests

In one March 2015 exchange that appears to be between the two sisters, Andrea Manafort seems to suggest that their father bore some responsibility for the deaths of protesters at the hands of police loyal to Yanukovych during a monthslong uprising that started in late 2013.

“Don't fool yourself,” Andrea Manafort wrote. “That money we have is blood money.”

Hacked text messages allegedly sent by Paul Manafort's daughter discuss 'blood money' and killings, and a Ukrainian lawyer wants him to explain

"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."

"You know he has killed people in Ukraine? Knowingly," she continued, according to the reviewed texts. "As a tactic to outrage the world and get focus on Ukraine. Remember when there were all those deaths taking place. A while back. About a year ago. Revolts and what not. Do you know whose strategy that was to cause that, to send those people out and get them slaughtered."

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

US didn't install anything. Ukrainians just kicked out the pro-russian puppet and now there is an understandable blowback from Russian meddling.

After decades of oppression in Ukraine by Russia, 7 million dead Ukrainians starved by Stalin to force collectivization on Ukraine, why would Ukrainians be anti-Russian? I am sure present day Russian actions in Ukraine will make Ukrainians look at Russia with love and admiration in the future.

 

[Harry Bosch]

"Our puppet can beat up your puppet!"

'Murika!

Fuck yeah!

The current president of Ukraine won 54% of the votes, that's a hell of lot more than our President.

 

[barbos]

Manafort’s Ukrainian ‘blood money’ caused qualms, hack suggests



Hacked text messages allegedly sent by Paul Manafort's daughter discuss 'blood money' and killings, and a Ukrainian lawyer wants him to explain

"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."

"You know he has killed people in Ukraine? Knowingly," she continued, according to the reviewed texts. "As a tactic to outrage the world and get focus on Ukraine. Remember when there were all those deaths taking place. A while back. About a year ago. Revolts and what not. Do you know whose strategy that was to cause that, to send those people out and get them slaughtered."

That makes no sense whatsoever. These killed were mostly protesters who were against Yanukovich. Yanukovich could not have possibly sent them,

- - - Updated - - -

'Murika!

Fuck yeah!

The current president of Ukraine won 54% of the votes, that's a hell of lot more than our President.

After his opponents were shut down and large chunk of the country were not able to vote becasue they were controlled by rebels. But businessman Poroshenko is not as retarted as show host Trump, I can give you that, both are corrupted and greedy bastards though. Yanukovich was greedy bastard as well.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Manafort’s Ukrainian ‘blood money’ caused qualms, hack suggests



Hacked text messages allegedly sent by Paul Manafort's daughter discuss 'blood money' and killings, and a Ukrainian lawyer wants him to explain

That makes no sense whatsoever. These killed were mostly protesters who were against Yanukovich. Yanukovich could not have possibly sent them,

- - - Updated - - -

'Murika!

Fuck yeah!

The current president of Ukraine won 54% of the votes, that's a hell of lot more than our President.

After his opponents were shut down and large chunk of the country were not able to vote becasue they were controlled by rebels. But businessman Poroshenko is not as retarted as show host Trump, I can give you that, both are corrupted and greedy bastards though. Yanukovich was greedy bastard as well.

I'm always shocked when you and I agree! But to add, I think that Russia will regret seceding splitting Ukraine because most of the pro-Russian Ukranians are in the east.

 

[barbos]

I'm always shocked when you and I agree! But to add, I think that Russia will regret seceding splitting Ukraine because most of the pro-Russian Ukranians are in the east.

Russia can't take much credit for that, credit goes to the current ukrainian government.

 

[tupac chopra]

After US installed openly anti-russian puppet regime in Ukraine.

US didn't install anything. Ukrainians just kicked out the pro-russian puppet and now there is an understandable blowback from Russian meddling.

That guy was democratically elected by the whole country, unlike the present guy.

 

[tupac chopra]

'Murika!

Fuck yeah!

The current president of Ukraine won 54% of the votes, that's a hell of lot more than our President.

Pity the whole country didn't vote in the Ukraine.

Ukraine had a run of Presidents, some leaned towards Russia, some towards Europe.

But eventually a Russian leaning one was not acceptable to the US.

Although of course the US never gets involved in "regime change" does it?

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/11/yats-is-no-longer-the-guy/

More importantly, the intercepted call, released onto YouTube in early February 2014, represented powerful evidence that these senior U.S. officials were plotting – or at least collaborating in – a coup d’etat against Ukraine’s democratically elected president. So, the U.S. government and the mainstream U.S. media have since consigned this revealing discussion to the Great Memory Hole.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'm always shocked when you and I agree! But to add, I think that Russia will regret seceding splitting Ukraine because most of the pro-Russian Ukranians are in the east.

Russia can't take much credit for that, credit goes to the current ukrainian government.

Oh, totally agree. Russia had nothing to do about it. I mean it probably didn't help sending in Russian troops (little green men) and arming the separatists. That probably didn't help!!! Look, you and I will not agree on this. But would you at least agree that separating the east Ukranians from the west will push the West Ukraine away from Russia?