University head says free speech does not override transgender safety

[Metaphor]

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...rride-transgender-safety-20210615-p58171.html

Melbourne University vice-chancellor Duncan Maskell has warned staff that their right to academic freedom does not give them licence to write or say things that cause harm to transgender people. In the draft of a new “gender affirmation policy”, the university is considering prohibiting public speeches or events that it deems an attack on gender diversity. If enacted, the draft would also alter the university’s free speech policy to prevent its academics engaging in public discourse that the university believes has the potential to harm transgender and gender-diverse members of the university community.

I look forward to the university defining harm for us. I'm sure the policy will make it clear.

The draft policy follows calls by the student union’s queer political action collective last month for the suspension and review of a second-year philosophy subject on feminism over concerns it contains “transphobic rhetoric” in the course materials.

I agree with the queer political action collective. Challenging ideas don't belong in a philosophy course, or anywhere on campus.

...
Professor Maskell raised the issue in an address to staff on Tuesday evening, acknowledging that there had been “deep disagreements and widely divergent views amongst our community about questions concerning gender identity”.

“This has at times been perceived as a stand-off between the academic freedom of colleagues to pursue particular questions concerning transgender identity, versus the damage and harm that our transgender colleagues experience from those questions being pursued,” Professor Maskell said.

I look forward to 'damage' being defined in the policy as well

....

But Dr Lawford-Smith said: “They don’t define ‘harm’ in the policy and yet a lot depends in that clause on what it would mean to be harmed for that community.

“I guess the worry in terms of what we’ve seen in the last few years is that there has been a lot of exaggeration or concept creep around what it means to be harmed or to be, quote-unquote, ‘safe’ on campus, where that’s started to mean not having your ideas challenged.”

Does this academic realise she is at university, where it is heresy to challenge transgender ideology?

Dr Lawford-Smith attracted controversy when she participated in an event in 2019 against new Victorian laws enabling transgender people to have their birth certificate changed to affirm their gender. The event drew protests from current and former students and an unsuccessful appeal from national organisation Equality Australia to Melbourne University to cancel it.

How hateful to oppose the changing of recorded facts. I think the Inner Party should have some words with Dr Lawford-Smith.

University of Melbourne Student Union president Jack Buksh said the draft policy change was a welcome if “relatively uncontroversial” development, but said it did not resolve tensions between academic freedom and transgender safety.
“Those kinds of events [the event in 2019] we know can make transgender and gender-diverse students feel really unsafe so it’s good the university has finally stepped up to fill that gap,” Mr Buksh said.

“But we’re still waiting to see how they will address the academic freedom argument with the right of students to feel safe and the transgender community to feel supported.”

I agree. The policy does not go far enough. Imagine the ongoing trauma trans people are feeling after public policy was debated in 2019 -- on campus!

A university spokesman said the proposed gender affirmation policy had been in development since the end of 2019 and that all feedback would be considered before finalising the policy and announcing it to staff in the near future.

“One of our core values is that there must be a genuine and deep culture of respect for everyone at our university and of course this includes being completely respectful towards the rights of the LGBTQIA+ community,” the spokesman said.

“This is non-negotiable.”

 

[untermensche]

What do you want to say about good honest decent moral hard working people that are transgender that this would prevent?

 

[Metaphor]

What do you want to say about good honest decent moral hard working people that are transgender that this would prevent?

It's hard to say what it would prevent, because the policy doesn't specify. But given the state of trans ideology in the West, and the title of the policy, I suspect uttering things like "trans women are men" or "trans women should not be in women's prisons" will probably be deemed transphobic, harmful, and unsafe. And debating any public policy that has a 'gender affirming' side (like the self-declaration changes to birth certificates to alter recorded sex).

 

[untermensche]

Gender identity is a mental construct.

It cannot be seen by an observer.

Trans women in prison is such a tiny problem but there could be a prison where only trans people go in every State.

Not because they will do harm but because they have a high likelihood of being harmed.

The State has an obligation to not allow prisoners to be harmed.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'll tell you what I'm becoming phobic against. I'm developing a phobia against trans activists. I'm fine with transexuals. What I'm starting to have a problem with is their woke champions.

I find it baffling that these trans activists don't understand that any rule that limits free speech can easily be exploited to limit speech supporting the trans cause. A minority is always a minority. These guys need to be vigilant against anything that can be used against them, like limited free speech.

 

[untermensche]

I don't know if Australia has a first Amendment equivalent but definitely those opposed to transsexuals should be allowed to freely speak.

But it is easily recognizable that many of these people don't care about women's sports or prison safety.

They grasp at any tiny insignificant thing to try to whip transsexuals in general and divide the population.

Wedge issues are issues society needs to work on.

But they are used by some to drum up prejudice and irrational hatred.

They are used maliciously by unethical people.

 

[ZiprHead]

Gender identity is a mental construct.

It cannot be seen by an observer.

Trans women in prison is such a tiny problem but there could be a prison where only trans people go in every State.

Not because they will do harm but because they have a high likelihood of being harmed.

The State has an obligation to not allow prisoners to be harmed.

Not to mention that trans women in men's prisons are far more subjected to rape.

 

[laughing dog]

As a general principal, I think that free speech should not override the safety of others. lI think the real issue is the implementation of that principal, especially with the definition of what constitutes safety.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Conservatives: "I don't think that free speech should be removed from white cis people including saying discriminatory things against trans people in course material. White Nazis should also be allowed on campus to have their hate speech. These are just ideas with no impact."

Also, conservatives: "On the other hand, when an Indian woman talks about whiteness negatively as a guest lecturer, that's completely unacceptable. She should be kicked out because it leads to white genocide."

 

[repoman]

Conservatives: "I don't think that free speech should be removed from white cis people including saying discriminatory things against trans people in course material. White Nazis should also be allowed on campus to have their hate speech. These are just ideas with no impact."

Also, conservatives: "On the other hand, when an Indian woman talks about whiteness negatively as a guest lecturer, that's completely unacceptable. She should be kicked out because it leads to white genocide."

I just want to be able to talk about white people positively.

 

[fromderinside]

Why?

 

[ZiprHead]

Conservatives: "I don't think that free speech should be removed from white cis people including saying discriminatory things against trans people in course material. White Nazis should also be allowed on campus to have their hate speech. These are just ideas with no impact."

Also, conservatives: "On the other hand, when an Indian woman talks about whiteness negatively as a guest lecturer, that's completely unacceptable. She should be kicked out because it leads to white genocide."

I just want to be able to talk about white people positively.

Is that really what nazis want?

 

[Trausti]

Why?

Yeah. They have no souls. Not even human. Yakub should never have created them.

 

[Jarhyn]

Conservatives: "I don't think that free speech should be removed from white cis people including saying discriminatory things against trans people in course material. White Nazis should also be allowed on campus to have their hate speech. These are just ideas with no impact."

Also, conservatives: "On the other hand, when an Indian woman talks about whiteness negatively as a guest lecturer, that's completely unacceptable. She should be kicked out because it leads to white genocide."

I just want to be able to talk about white people positively.

Is that really what nazis want?

"Positively...[in relation to other races]" or in other words, to engage in prejudice.

There is nothing that "white people" are that "white peopl" are also not, since there is nothing universal to being white... Not even light colored skin.

 

[ZiprHead]

Is that really what nazis want?

"Positively...[in relation to other races]" or in other words, to engage in prejudice.

There is nothing that "white people" are that "white peopl" are also not, since there is nothing universal to being white... Not even light colored skin.

Yeah, they didn't seem to particularly care for those white Jewish people, the white French people, and the white British people.

 

[Ahab]

I'll tell you what I'm becoming phobic against. I'm developing a phobia against trans activists. I'm fine with transexuals. What I'm starting to have a problem with is their woke champions.

I find it baffling that these trans activists don't understand that any rule that limits free speech can easily be exploited to limit speech supporting the trans cause. A minority is always a minority. These guys need to be vigilant against anything that can be used against them, like limited free speech.

I agree. It is a shame that some of the activists have gone this route. They also don't see how some of issues they are fighting for negatively impact the female class.

All trans people should be treated with the same respect as other classes. Was glad to see today that the Biden administration is extending to gay and transgender people the Title IX protections that the Trump administration had removed.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Freedom of speech is about protecting unpopular speech. Popular speech isn't threatened in the first place.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Freedom of speech is about protecting unpopular speech. Popular speech isn't threatened in the first place.

This is 100% true. Also, some speech is abusive like say child abuse, harassment, discrimination, or conspiring in some way to commit genocide in the distant future.

 

[Jarhyn]

Freedom of speech is about protecting unpopular speech. Popular speech isn't threatened in the first place.

This is 100% true. Also, some speech is abusive like say child abuse, harassment, discrimination, or conspiring in some way to commit genocide in the distant future.

And some speech is straight up criminal, either because it is threatening or for other reasons. I could not, for instance, legally say anything about certain aircraft systems. I could not legally say something about the identity of a person under state protection. I could not legally reveal the whereabouts of our nuclear arsenal. I could not legally yell "fire!" in a crowded club (lol, as if, thanks Covid/Drumpf!).

Of course freedom of speech does not include certain speech which threatens safety.

This is so fucking stupid. Like, the title of this... It's just asinine right on the face of it. "University teacher says (statement that is accurate, correct, and in line with principle)."

Now, whether the university dude or whatever actually said that or something stupid, I wouldn't know or care outside the observations of others more brave than I to wander into whatever dark internet media abyss Metaphor pulled this from. OP screed ends up on ignore and no tears shed.

Anyway, imma hang back and watch people replying to the REEEEEEEE over the fact that they will continually fail to recognize, admit to, apologize for, and (stretch goals here...) stop posting threads that attack gender non-conforming people and those who support them. But that would be a pale and filthy wallowing in the mud to the joy and love I would feel if even a few of the previously mentioned outcomes happened instead.

 

[Metaphor]

This is so fucking stupid. Like, the title of this... It's just asinine right on the face of it. "University teacher says (statement that is accurate, correct, and in line with principle)."

It was the vice-chancellor, not a "university teacher". All I did was use the newspaper article headline as the thread title, and you have a problem with that?

Now, whether the university dude or whatever

There is a link for you to read the article.

actually said that or something stupid, I wouldn't know or care

Then why respond to the thread?

outside the observations of others more brave than I to wander into whatever dark internet media abyss Metaphor pulled this from.

Yes, The Age is a 'dark internet media abyss'. I'll be sure to tell the editor you don't approve of her rag.

OP screed ends up on ignore and no tears shed.

Anyway, imma hang back and watch people replying to the REEEEEEEE over the fact that they will continually fail to recognize, admit to, apologize for, and (stretch goals here...) stop posting threads that attack gender non-conforming people and those who support them. But that would be a pale and filthy wallowing in the mud to the joy and love I would feel if even a few of the previously mentioned outcomes happened instead.

You do that hun.