Up the flagpole: An idea on dealing with H1-B visas

[Lumpenproletariat]

A higher standard of living is BETTER, not worse.

In a world with rough economic equality there would be no need for H1-B visas. Unfortunately, in today's world that doesn't apply--letting in anyone who wants to come would end up dragging us down to their level rather than elevating them.

No, letting business do what it's supposed to do -- serve consumers and increase our standard of living -- does NOT drag us down. Turning employers into babysitters is what drags us down.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think we have much of a skills shortage anyway. What we have is companies who don't want to pay market rate for the skills.

Come off it!

The market rate is whatever wage level/price the buyer and seller can agree on.

And all consumers are made better off by letting the companies get the lower-cost labor, because this enables them to better serve consumers at lower cost and compete better. The function of business is to

serve consumers, not provide job slots to crybabies!

The problem with this approach is that it relies on the continued illegal importing of labor--and would be very bad for America as the opportunities overseas improve.

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In a world with rough economic equality there would be no need for H1-B visas. Unfortunately, in today's world that doesn't apply--letting in anyone who wants to come would end up dragging us down to their level rather than elevating them.

No, letting business do what it's supposed to do -- serve consumers and increase our standard of living -- does NOT drag us down. Turning employers into babysitters is what drags us down.

The US constitutes 5% of the world's population. What happens when you add say 10x that number? The capital per worker is cut to 1/10th of what it was and productivity crashes. We end up pretty much like them rather than them ending up like us.

 

[Malintent]

This is my ignorance speaking... The OP is a proposed solution to an unstated problem.
Would the OP mind stating the problem for which this is a proposed solution?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is my ignorance speaking... The OP is a proposed solution to an unstated problem.
Would the OP mind stating the problem for which this is a proposed solution?

Are you not aware of what has happened to the IT field with Americans displaced by H1-B workers???

 

[barbos]

This is my ignorance speaking... The OP is a proposed solution to an unstated problem.
Would the OP mind stating the problem for which this is a proposed solution?

Are you not aware of what has happened to the IT field with Americans displaced by H1-B workers???

IT workers are still overrated. It was a new and well paid field in 1990s and early 2000s but now when it becomes bigger and bigger it's only natural for it to become more and more like the rest of the ordinary occupations.
Times when bus drivers were able to learn java and get $100k salaries are over and that's a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

The market rate is whatever wage level/price the buyer and seller can agree on.

And all consumers are made better off by letting the companies get the lower-cost labor, because this enables them to better serve consumers at lower cost and compete better. The function of business is to

serve consumers, not provide job slots to crybabies!

The problem with this approach is that it relies on the continued illegal importing of labor--and would be very bad for America as the opportunities overseas improve.

But this importing has been good for America so far, and there's no reason to assume that business would import any more than is advantageous or profitable. As long as they need those workers, or profit from them because of the cost-savings, then it's best for the economy. But beyond that point, the companies don't have the incentive to import more. So there's no need for an artificial limit imposed by government.

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In a world with rough economic equality there would be no need for H1-B visas. Unfortunately, in today's world that doesn't apply--letting in anyone who wants to come would end up dragging us down to their level rather than elevating them.

No, letting business do what it's supposed to do -- serve consumers and increase our standard of living -- does NOT drag us down. Turning employers into babysitters is what drags us down.

The US constitutes 5% of the world's population. What happens when you add say 10x that number?

That's La-La Land. In the real world there's a need for more.

The capital per worker is cut to 1/10th of what it was and productivity crashes. We end up pretty much like them rather than them ending up like us.

No, a large number might be imported only if there is a need for them, in which case it ADDS to the efficient production.

Even if a large number should come and the "capital per worker" decreases, still EVERYONE is better off. The lower "capital per worker" does not mean that any worker's production or income decreased, but only that some poor workers arrived who were not here before, which raises their living standard but does not lower anyone's living standard, even if the "capital per worker" decreased.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you not aware of what has happened to the IT field with Americans displaced by H1-B workers???

IT workers are still overrated. It was a new and well paid field in 1990s and early 2000s but now when it becomes bigger and bigger it's only natural for it to become more and more like the rest of the ordinary occupations.
Times when bus drivers were able to learn java and get $100k salaries are over and that's a good thing in my opinion.

Yeah, a bus driver isn't going to make a very good Java programmer. That doesn't mean things haven't swung too far in the other direction now, though. On paper the current H1-B laws are reasonable--but in practice the enforcement is virtually nil. Again and again we see news stories about IT workers being required to train their H1-B replacements--and yet the axe doesn't fall despite the obvious violation of the rules.

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Even if a large number should come and the "capital per worker" decreases, still EVERYONE is better off. The lower "capital per worker" does not mean that any worker's production or income decreased, but only that some poor workers arrived who were not here before, which raises their living standard but does not lower anyone's living standard, even if the "capital per worker" decreased.

Lower capital per worker means productivity drops as they don't have as good tools anymore.

 

[ksen]

Loren, aren't you a libertarian?

Why should there be H1-B's at all? As a libertarian, should you promote the rights and freedoms of corporations to hire whomever they want for however much money they feel like paying? Why would you as a libertarian want Big Government to place any restrictions at all on who the aristocracy can and can't hire? Wouldn't that make us all less free? Doesn't that mean you are now a Big Government communist who hates our freedom?

H1-B's affect Loren personally.

 

[barbos]

IT workers are still overrated. It was a new and well paid field in 1990s and early 2000s but now when it becomes bigger and bigger it's only natural for it to become more and more like the rest of the ordinary occupations.
Times when bus drivers were able to learn java and get $100k salaries are over and that's a good thing in my opinion.

Yeah, a bus driver isn't going to make a very good Java programmer.

But that is what was happening.

That doesn't mean things haven't swung too far in the other direction now, though. On paper the current H1-B laws are reasonable--but in practice the enforcement is virtually nil. Again and again we see news stories about IT workers being required to train their H1-B replacements--and yet the axe doesn't fall despite the obvious violation of the rules.

Yes, there are few such stories. But I wonder why would not these poor american IT workers sue their employers for millions of dollars. I mean it is so sure win for them.

 

[barbos]

Loren, aren't you a libertarian?

Why should there be H1-B's at all? As a libertarian, should you promote the rights and freedoms of corporations to hire whomever they want for however much money they feel like paying? Why would you as a libertarian want Big Government to place any restrictions at all on who the aristocracy can and can't hire? Wouldn't that make us all less free? Doesn't that mean you are now a Big Government communist who hates our freedom?

H1-B's affect Loren personally.

He can always sabotage the training of that indian H1-B-er