US ally Saudi Arabia executes 47 protesters

[barbos]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/05/opinion/saudi-arabias-barbaric-executions.html

I am a bit surprised there is no thread about it.
So these Arab Spring protesters in SA were finally executed. One of them was a prominent shia cleric (Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr) and Iranians and shia in general are understandably mad.
US officials are somewhat quiet about all this, even Erdogan the main democrat of Middle East is not calling for removal of the SA King, which is surprising considering how fast he was to suggest removal of Assad who has not even executed anybody yet. Of course he have not squashed resistance ("thanks" to the SA and Qatar help)

 

[untermensche]

In the US people are "legally" executed all the time.

Why should it care if the Saudi's do it too?

They say it's a deterrent. A show to keep people in line in other words.

 

[barbos]

In the US people are "legally" executed all the time.

Why should it care if the Saudi's do it too?

They say it's a deterrent. A show to keep people in line in other words.

Well, when Assad tried to do the same US and Turkey said "Bad Assad, bad!" and then quickly sent arms to these "protesters". Also I have to check but US does not execute protesters, even armed ones.

 

[Jayjay]

There are no good guys in this row. Iran executes more people every year both in absolute numbers and per capita, than Saudi Arabia. And while Saudis treat their Shia minority like dirt, Iran treats its Baha'i the same. Both countries are despicable oppressive theocracies, even if KSA might be slightly worse of the two.

What strikes me as unwarranted though is Iran failing to protect the Saudi embassy from being overrun by a mob. Of course now it's wagging its finger (with a wink) at the culprits, but it's patently clear that if Iranian officials had wanted to stop the mob, they could have easily done so. Iran has built up revolutionary mythos around the 1979 US embassy occupation as some sort of act of heroism, which means that no embassy is truly safe in that country.

 

[untermensche]

In the US people are "legally" executed all the time.

Why should it care if the Saudi's do it too?

They say it's a deterrent. A show to keep people in line in other words.

Well, when Assad tried to do the same US and Turkey said "Bad Assad, bad!" and then quickly sent arms to these "protesters". Also I have to check but US does not execute protesters, even armed ones.

No, in the US protesters are just beaten up by the police.

Who exactly do the police work for again?

 

[barbos]

There are no good guys in this row. Iran executes more people every year both in absolute numbers and per capita, than Saudi Arabia. And while Saudis treat their Shia minority like dirt, Iran treats its Baha'i the same. Both countries are despicable oppressive theocracies, even if KSA might be slightly worse of the two.

What strikes me as unwarranted though is Iran failing to protect the Saudi embassy from being overrun by a mob. Of course now it's wagging its finger (with a wink) at the culprits, but it's patently clear that if Iranian officials had wanted to stop the mob, they could have easily done so. Iran has built up revolutionary mythos around the 1979 US embassy occupation as some sort of act of heroism, which means that no embassy is truly safe in that country.

True, Middle East is a complete "No win" scenario for anybody. Both Iran and SA are theocracies but Iran has better potential to become some kind of democracy. Maybe that's why US keeps supporting SA and not Iran, because they know, that SA will always be theocratic shithole supported by oil, so why bother? But Iran with enough external pressure could revolt into something descent.

 

[Derec]

True, Middle East is a complete "No win" scenario for anybody. Both Iran and SA are theocracies but Iran has better potential to become some kind of democracy. Maybe that's why US keeps supporting SA and not Iran, because they know, that SA will always be theocratic shithole supported by oil, so why bother? But Iran with enough external pressure could revolt into something descent.

Not only that, it is likely to become a much worse theocratic shithole should the House of Saud fall.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There's no thread about it because it didn't happen.

What actually happened is that Saudi Arabia executed a bunch of terrorists.

Now, the cleric that was executed wasn't a hands-on guy but that doesn't make him innocent. The agitators that call for the violence should be considered as guilty as the ones who actually carry it out.

 

[Metaphor]

True, Middle East is a complete "No win" scenario for anybody. Both Iran and SA are theocracies but Iran has better potential to become some kind of democracy. Maybe that's why US keeps supporting SA and not Iran, because they know, that SA will always be theocratic shithole supported by oil, so why bother? But Iran with enough external pressure could revolt into something descent.

Not only that, it is likely to become a much worse theocratic shithole should the House of Saud fall.

It's hard to imagine that a kingdom with an absolute monarch that forbids women from driving or wearing anything other than full ninja gear, where public beheadings happen in car parks, where homosexuality is a capital crime, where freedom of religion is non-existent, where what you eat and what you drink are heavily proscribed, where there are 'religious police', could get much worse.

But then, the Middle East is constantly surprising me with just how much worse than whatever came before it can get.

 

[TSwizzle]

There's no thread about it because it didn't happen.

What actually happened is that Saudi Arabia executed a bunch of terrorists.

Bravo Loren !!

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The interesting part of all of this is that Iran is just as bad if not worse than Saudi Arabia.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/07/irans-staggering-execution-spree/

-
The Iranian authorities are believed to have executed an astonishing 694 people between 1 January and 15 July 2015, said Amnesty International today, in an unprecedented spike in executions in the country.
-
Among those executed in Iran are also members of ethnic and religious minorities convicted of “enmity against God” and “corruption on earth” including Kurdish political prisoners and Sunni Muslims.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There are no good guys in this row. Iran executes more people every year both in absolute numbers and per capita, than Saudi Arabia. And while Saudis treat their Shia minority like dirt, Iran treats its Baha'i the same. Both countries are despicable oppressive theocracies, even if KSA might be slightly worse of the two.

What strikes me as unwarranted though is Iran failing to protect the Saudi embassy from being overrun by a mob. Of course now it's wagging its finger (with a wink) at the culprits, but it's patently clear that if Iranian officials had wanted to stop the mob, they could have easily done so. Iran has built up revolutionary mythos around the 1979 US embassy occupation as some sort of act of heroism, which means that no embassy is truly safe in that country.

The point is the double standards exercised by the USA. Saudi is one of the worst countries for human rights abuses because it can rely on US support for just about anything.

 

[Jayjay]

There are no good guys in this row. Iran executes more people every year both in absolute numbers and per capita, than Saudi Arabia. And while Saudis treat their Shia minority like dirt, Iran treats its Baha'i the same. Both countries are despicable oppressive theocracies, even if KSA might be slightly worse of the two.

What strikes me as unwarranted though is Iran failing to protect the Saudi embassy from being overrun by a mob. Of course now it's wagging its finger (with a wink) at the culprits, but it's patently clear that if Iranian officials had wanted to stop the mob, they could have easily done so. Iran has built up revolutionary mythos around the 1979 US embassy occupation as some sort of act of heroism, which means that no embassy is truly safe in that country.

The point is the double standards exercised by the USA. Saudi is one of the worst countries for human rights abuses because it can rely on US support for just about anything.

Iran and North Korea can't rely on US support, yet they are right up there with KSA. It doesn't seem like US support is what makes countries human rights abusers. It is tough to say what SAudi Arabia would be if US withdrew its support, probably some mixture of Libya and Afghanistan.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The point is the double standards exercised by the USA. Saudi is one of the worst countries for human rights abuses because it can rely on US support for just about anything.

Iran and North Korea can't rely on US support, yet they are right up there with KSA. It doesn't seem like US support is what makes countries human rights abusers. It is tough to say what SAudi Arabia would be if US withdrew its support, probably some mixture of Libya and Afghanistan.

Iran has a huge army and a certain amount of financial resources, while North Korea still has the (somewhat hesitant) support of China. The US considers these too dangerous to invade. Saudi is pro West and supplies oil which is all the US and allies are interested in.

 

[arkirk]

There's no thread about it because it didn't happen.

What actually happened is that Saudi Arabia executed a bunch of terrorists.

Bravo Loren !!

Yeah, Loren, that is the same excuse you use for all sorts of extrajudicial killings. They were terrorists. Supposing we turn over the terrorists in Eastern Oregon to Saudi Arabia and see what kind of "justice' they get. Perhaps you would like to go to Saudi Arabia to congratulate them in person for their getting rid of a few terrorists.

 

[untermensche]

Bravo Loren !!

Yeah, Loren, that is the same excuse you use for all sorts of extrajudicial killings. They were terrorists. Supposing we turn over the terrorists in Eastern Oregon to Saudi Arabia and see what kind of "justice' they get. Perhaps you would like to go to Saudi Arabia to congratulate them in person for their getting rid of a few terrorists.

Some have these little switches in their brain that allows them to not think.

"They are terrorists."

Bam!! The thinking ends and the ignorance can flow freely.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Bravo Loren !!

Yeah, Loren, that is the same excuse you use for all sorts of extrajudicial killings. They were terrorists. Supposing we turn over the terrorists in Eastern Oregon to Saudi Arabia and see what kind of "justice' they get. Perhaps you would like to go to Saudi Arabia to congratulate them in person for their getting rid of a few terrorists.

Do you not realize that most of these guys were convicted of carrying out terrorist attacks in SA?

 

[bilby]

Yeah, Loren, that is the same excuse you use for all sorts of extrajudicial killings. They were terrorists. Supposing we turn over the terrorists in Eastern Oregon to Saudi Arabia and see what kind of "justice' they get. Perhaps you would like to go to Saudi Arabia to congratulate them in person for their getting rid of a few terrorists.

Do you not realize that most of these guys were convicted of carrying out terrorist attacks in SA?

What, in Adelaide? Or Woomera?

 

[bigfield]

Do you not realize that most of these guys were convicted of carrying out terrorist attacks in SA?

What, in Adelaide? Or Woomera?

Johannesburg.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There's no thread about it because it didn't happen.

What actually happened is that Saudi Arabia executed a bunch of terrorists.

Now, the cleric that was executed wasn't a hands-on guy but that doesn't make him innocent. The agitators that call for the violence should be considered as guilty as the ones who actually carry it out.

Amnesty International has a different view on this

http://www.hngn.com/articles/154379...terrorists-including-anti-government-shia.htm

Bear in mind anything against the Saud family and its kingdom is regarded as sedition and or terrorism. This includes calls for democracy.