US workers are tired of being under paid and over worked!

[southernhybrid]

Hopefully, anyone interested should be able to read the entire article that I'm linking for the next two weeks.


https://wapo.st/3BUc4d4

The labor activism runs the gamut of American industry, powered by the same grievances about wages, benefits and quality of life driving the Great Resignation


Listen to article

Marcial Reyes could have just quit his job. Frustrated with chronic understaffing at the Kaiser Permanente hospital where he works in Southern California, he knows he has options in a region desperate for nurses.
Instead, he voted to go on strike.
While Americans are leaving their jobs at staggering rates — a record 4.3 million quit in August alone — hundreds of thousands of workers with similar grievances about wages, benefits and quality of life are, like Reyes, choosing to dig in and fight. Last week, 10,000 John Deere workers went on strike, while unions representing 31,000 Kaiser employees authorized walkouts. Some 60,000 Hollywood production workers reached a deal Saturday night, averting a strike hours before a negotiation deadline.
All told, there have been strikes against 178 employers this year, according to a tracker by Cornell University’s School of Industrial Labor Relations. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, which records only large work stoppages, has documented 12 strikes involving 1,000 or more workers so far this year. That’s considerably higher than 2020, when the pandemic took hold, but in line with significant strike activity recorded in 2019 and 2018.

The article, if you don't feel like reading it, discusses strikes as well as workers quitting their jobs, mostly due to feeling under appreciated due to low pay, being over worked, or not receiving adequate benefits. I have several friends who are still in the workforce and they are very underpaid. Some are expected to work all sorts of hours at a moment's notice. One who is a manager of a chain shoe store hasn't received a raise in years. She finally spoke up for herself and received a raise of 1.50, but that still puts her pay at 17.50 an hour in a job she has worked at for many years. Her son makes 15.50 an hour working for Walmart, which isn't too bad for a 19 year old working at his first job, but I doubt it was due to the generosity of Walmart. Walmart is just desperate for workers, as are most retail stores, factories, and health care facilities in my area and probably in most of the country.

What took it so long for workers to decide to do something about the way they were treated? While Congress is slow to raise the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour, it appears that employers are gradually doing it on their own, due to the problem of finding workers. I realize that some small businesses may not be able to pay that much, but then maybe they shouldn't be in business if they can't treat their workers better. Despite the fact that I'm retired and made very low pay for a professional RN, I'm happy to see that those who are still in the work place are starting to rebel. Some economists say that these wages aren't why inflation is increasing. I don't think increased pay should be adding to inflation when these large corporations are making billions off of the cost of their labor. Most can afford to increase employees pay and benefits. It's just exciting to see people start to say something like "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore".

Any thoughts on this? If you are still in the work place, do you think your pay is fair? Have you asked for a raise this year or received a decent raise? What impact will this have on the over all economy? Does government need to be involved or can the workers unite and do this on their own?

Not all of the efforts of these workers worked. It explains some of the problems and accomplishments of the workers in my link.

Finally, for those of you who don't live in the US, is anything like this happening in your country?

 

[Swammerdami]

It's refreshing to see labor unions making a come-back in the U.S. But here, Trevor Noah comments on a variety of reasons Americans are quitting their jobs in record numbers.

 

[crazyfingers]

Any thoughts on this? If you are still in the work place, do you think your pay is fair? Have you asked for a raise this year or received a decent raise? What impact will this have on the over all economy? Does government need to be involved or can the workers unite and do this on their own?

Not all of the efforts of these workers worked. It explains some of the problems and accomplishments of the workers in my link.

I'll be part of that great resignation (Retirement) soon so long as plans hold. It's not because of pay. It's due to overwork, some resentment that our healthcare plan sucks and because I can. I'm tired of the stress of deadlines that I can't meet without working long past 5pm. I'm salaried, not hourly, so working after hours doesn't get me any more pay. Working after hours is OK sometimes but not all the time. Screw that. The job is supposedly 35 hours a week but is really more like 45 or 50 for long stretches. But overall I know that I'm way better of than most people.

I do think that min wage needs to go up a lot, especially for families. While I'm no economist, seems to me that paying people more would pay off in the end because they'll have more money to actually buy stuff beyond the necessities.

I also think that companies need to treat people better. Mentioned above about unpredictable working hour, my daughter was in that position when she was a Dunkin Donuts. She'd be on the schedule and they'd take her off and not say anything so she'd show up only to find out that she was taken off the shift. Or she'd have plans for some day and get a call to come in or else because someone else was out. I don't know how anyone can live like that. I don't think that treating someone like that should be legal. I get that if someone is sick they need to call around to see who will come in but threatening is not OK and time and a half would be appropriate.

She quit and got a much better job doing factory work. Regular hours, health care, better than minimum pay. She's content for the time being.

Generally I think that Unions need more power. But not all Unions. Police Unions are all about extortion. Some unions create hardening of the arteries. But unions have lost power over the last several decades and I think it needs to swing back some now.

 

[Ford]

Any thoughts on this? If you are still in the work place, do you think your pay is fair? Have you asked for a raise this year or received a decent raise? What impact will this have on the over all economy? Does government need to be involved or can the workers unite and do this on their own?

In general? The word "disruptive" was being thrown around a lot (at least in my circles) a couple years ago. Business ideas that were "disruptive" or otherwise upended the status quo. They were usually focused on ways to do things cheaper or more efficiently. Well as it turns out, a global pandemic is quite disruptive. A lot of businesses went under. The ones that survived were either large enough to weather the storm, or got government assistance, or reworked their business to serve the demand for certain products and services during the pandemic.

Things were also disrupted on the workers' side of things, with a lot of people struggling to find work, surviving on expanded unemployment benefits, or doing their previous jobs from home.

Then something funny happened. When the economy began to open up, a lot of employers wanted to go back to the old normal. "Here's a low wage job with no benefits, long hours, and you can take it or leave it." The workers did something the employers did not expect: They told businesses to pound sand.

I've got three perspectives on this. First off, I was one of those "essential workers" last year. In fact it has been almost exactly a year since I left my job at the grocery store gas station for a better paying gig. I still go to the store (I've been shopping there for a long time) and they've got "now hiring" signs plastered everywhere. Problem is, they're only paying 30 cents above the state minimum wage to start. They're a huge corporation and unable to pivot, so they're losing potential hires to the fast food and pizza places in the same shopping center that are offering 2 or 3 dollars an hour more.

I got a bit of perspective from a friend who runs a bar/restaurant in Wisconsin with her musician husband. She's offering good pay, but is struggling to find people because the market is very competitive right now and her business is in an upscale area. I feel bad for her, but I wonder aloud if she'd be offering what she's offering if everything were like it was before.

My own perspective? I've got a job that pays more than all the ones I had last year, more than I could make as a server at my friend's place in Wisconsin, the work is easy, I just got promoted, and earned a raise I'd have never got from the grocery store, or the factory I worked at, or the call center/work from home gig.

The script has been flipped. Workers have realized that they are now the "supply" part of supply and demand, and they can demand more. They've been working from home or collecting unemployment, and have realized that not only do they have something of value to offer, they can pick and choose what they'll take in return for that value rather than having to settle for "take it or leave it."

Meanwhile, advocates of "the free market" are suddenly saying "wait...not like that!"

 

[bleubird]

I have been getting SSI for a few years. Work part time at retail/liquor store.I could live on SS, but like a little extra for toys and hobbies.I make almost 3 times the min wage at a Mom & Pop store. Restaurants are the hardest hit because labor cost are a larger part of operating.

 

[thebeave]

Hopefully, anyone interested should be able to read the entire article that I'm linking for the next two weeks.


https://wapo.st/3BUc4d4

The labor activism runs the gamut of American industry, powered by the same grievances about wages, benefits and quality of life driving the Great Resignation


Listen to article

Marcial Reyes could have just quit his job. Frustrated with chronic understaffing at the Kaiser Permanente hospital where he works in Southern California, he knows he has options in a region desperate for nurses.
Instead, he voted to go on strike.
While Americans are leaving their jobs at staggering rates — a record 4.3 million quit in August alone — hundreds of thousands of workers with similar grievances about wages, benefits and quality of life are, like Reyes, choosing to dig in and fight. Last week, 10,000 John Deere workers went on strike, while unions representing 31,000 Kaiser employees authorized walkouts. Some 60,000 Hollywood production workers reached a deal Saturday night, averting a strike hours before a negotiation deadline.
All told, there have been strikes against 178 employers this year, according to a tracker by Cornell University’s School of Industrial Labor Relations. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, which records only large work stoppages, has documented 12 strikes involving 1,000 or more workers so far this year. That’s considerably higher than 2020, when the pandemic took hold, but in line with significant strike activity recorded in 2019 and 2018.

The article, if you don't feel like reading it, discusses strikes as well as workers quitting their jobs, mostly due to feeling under appreciated due to low pay, being over worked, or not receiving adequate benefits. I have several friends who are still in the workforce and they are very underpaid. Some are expected to work all sorts of hours at a moment's notice. One who is a manager of a chain shoe store hasn't received a raise in years. She finally spoke up for herself and received a raise of 1.50, but that still puts her pay at 17.50 an hour in a job she has worked at for many years. Her son makes 15.50 an hour working for Walmart, which isn't too bad for a 19 year old working at his first job, but I doubt it was due to the generosity of Walmart. Walmart is just desperate for workers, as are most retail stores, factories, and health care facilities in my area and probably in most of the country.

What took it so long for workers to decide to do something about the way they were treated? While Congress is slow to raise the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour, it appears that employers are gradually doing it on their own, due to the problem of finding workers. I realize that some small businesses may not be able to pay that much, but then maybe they shouldn't be in business if they can't treat their workers better. Despite the fact that I'm retired and made very low pay for a professional RN, I'm happy to see that those who are still in the work place are starting to rebel. Some economists say that these wages aren't why inflation is increasing. I don't think increased pay should be adding to inflation when these large corporations are making billions off of the cost of their labor. Most can afford to increase employees pay and benefits. It's just exciting to see people start to say something like "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore".

Any thoughts on this? If you are still in the work place, do you think your pay is fair? Have you asked for a raise this year or received a decent raise? What impact will this have on the over all economy? Does government need to be involved or can the workers unite and do this on their own?

Not all of the efforts of these workers worked. It explains some of the problems and accomplishments of the workers in my link.

Finally, for those of you who don't live in the US, is anything like this happening in your country?

As said in Star Wars multiple times, "I got a bad feeling about this".

Sounds like a perfect storm is fast approaching, if not already here. Companies are desperate for workers, and workers are dropping away like flies. Their profits go down, more businesses close. The ones that do manage to stay open are having trouble getting products and food they need due to supply chain issues. Gas and food prices are skyrocketing, so out of work people eat up their savings faster or become more dependent on social services. Can't find enough truckers to haul the goods. Anti-vaxxers are getting fired or walking away, so even more labor shortage. Drought in the west, so some crops are dying out. What's next, cats and dogs living together? Mass hysteria?

 

[none]

It's here.
Drama everywhere.
Can't walk around, have to ride bicycles to reduce being intercepted is common.
Rural folks taking their money out of the city where they pay well most of the time they don't.. it's a ploy to get your social security number so if you retaliate against the abuse you can be safely removed before the others figure it out.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

What's all the fuss about? If you don't like your job, or the terms, just quit.

Same solution as 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

Nothing new here. And if the employer is able to replace you with cheap labor, that's good for the economy.

The market fixes the problem -- profit motive, competition, supply-and-demand. If the demand is great enough, then the price (wage) increases as needed. But if the supply of replacement workers is sufficient, then the wage can stay low, saving on labor cost = good for consumers.

All that matters is getting the needed work done = better production = more wealth = higher living standard for all. Even if all the workers are replaced by machines. Whatever it takes.

Economics 1A.

 

[none]

What's all the fuss about? If you don't like your job, or the terms, just quit.

Same solution as 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

Nothing new here. And if the employer is able to replace you with cheap labor, that's good for the economy.

The market fixes the problem -- profit motive, competition, supply-and-demand. If the demand is great enough, then the price (wage) increases as needed. But if the supply of replacement workers is sufficient, then the wage can stay low, saving on labor cost = good for consumers.

All that matters is getting the needed work done = better production = more wealth = higher living standard for all. Even if all the workers are replaced by machines. Whatever it takes.

Economics 1A.

Ever jump off the roof of Foxconn?

 

[Ford]

What's all the fuss about? If you don't like your job, or the terms, just quit.

Difference this time around is that the employer down the street isn't offering the same shit wages and conditions. Out of the frying pan, into the fire was the "same solution as 10 years ago, 20 years ago."

Now the employees are saying "fuck your frying pan, fuck your fire, and I don't need to take your shit wages or conditions."

Your local grocery store is unable to stock their shelves in no small part because nobody wants to stock shelves for shit wages.


You hadn't factored that into the equation, did you?

 

[Metaphor]

I got a bit of perspective from a friend who runs a bar/restaurant in Wisconsin with her musician husband. She's offering good pay, but is struggling to find people because the market is very competitive right now and her business is in an upscale area. I feel bad for her, but I wonder aloud if she'd be offering what she's offering if everything were like it was before.

Are you asking: would your friend pay a higher price for wage labour when instead she can get the same for a lower price?

I doubt she would. When I go to a store, I don't pay a higher price for a product than the store is asking. Would you?

 

[Ford]

I got a bit of perspective from a friend who runs a bar/restaurant in Wisconsin with her musician husband. She's offering good pay, but is struggling to find people because the market is very competitive right now and her business is in an upscale area. I feel bad for her, but I wonder aloud if she'd be offering what she's offering if everything were like it was before.

Are you asking: would your friend pay a higher price for wage labour when instead she can get the same for a lower price?

I doubt she would. When I go to a store, I don't pay a higher price for a product than the store is asking. Would you?

Funny you should ask.

My father ran a small manufacturing outfit that made "foam packing products for industry" back in the day. You know...the stuff your television comes packed in? Yeah. Anyway, what with it being a factory in the rust belt, the unions would try to organize his shop. They'd send "ringers" in to get hired, they'd have "meetings" and demand the shop unionize.

So what did he do? Send in thugs to beat the union guys? Run ads on the local television stations? Buy some local politicians to write legislation? Band together with other factories in the area to fight the red menace?

Nope. His radical solution was to pay his employees as good or better than they could get from the local union, and treat them better as well. If someone needed a raise, they could walk into his office and make their case rather than go to their union rep and wait for collective bargaining to kick in. Without fail, whenever the union would try to organize his shop, the employees would throw them out.

Now here's the really crazy part. Did this "pay the employees a generous wage" thing tank the business? You might be surprised to learn that it didn't. In fact, his plant was so successful that the owner of the company used the profits from his plant to prop up the other two factories he owned.

From him, I learned that paying your people well and treating them well led to success, and paying rock-bottom wages and treating your employees like shit was a recipe for failure.

 

[Metaphor]

I got a bit of perspective from a friend who runs a bar/restaurant in Wisconsin with her musician husband. She's offering good pay, but is struggling to find people because the market is very competitive right now and her business is in an upscale area. I feel bad for her, but I wonder aloud if she'd be offering what she's offering if everything were like it was before.

Are you asking: would your friend pay a higher price for wage labour when instead she can get the same for a lower price?

I doubt she would. When I go to a store, I don't pay a higher price for a product than the store is asking. Would you?

Funny you should ask.

My father ran a small manufacturing outfit that made "foam packing products for industry" back in the day. You know...the stuff your television comes packed in? Yeah. Anyway, what with it being a factory in the rust belt, the unions would try to organize his shop. They'd send "ringers" in to get hired, they'd have "meetings" and demand the shop unionize.

So what did he do? Send in thugs to beat the union guys? Run ads on the local television stations? Buy some local politicians to write legislation? Band together with other factories in the area to fight the red menace?

Nope. His radical solution was to pay his employees as good or better than they could get from the local union, and treat them better as well. If someone needed a raise, they could walk into his office and make their case rather than go to their union rep and wait for collective bargaining to kick in. Without fail, whenever the union would try to organize his shop, the employees would throw them out.

Now here's the really crazy part. Did this "pay the employees a generous wage" thing tank the business? You might be surprised to learn that it didn't. In fact, his plant was so successful that the owner of the company used the profits from his plant to prop up the other two factories he owned.

From him, I learned that paying your people well and treating them well led to success, and paying rock-bottom wages and treating your employees like shit was a recipe for failure.

But that isn't what I asked. I asked if you think there is something wrong with your friend paying the market price for labour?

 

[Ford]

Funny you should ask.

My father ran a small manufacturing outfit that made "foam packing products for industry" back in the day. You know...the stuff your television comes packed in? Yeah. Anyway, what with it being a factory in the rust belt, the unions would try to organize his shop. They'd send "ringers" in to get hired, they'd have "meetings" and demand the shop unionize.

So what did he do? Send in thugs to beat the union guys? Run ads on the local television stations? Buy some local politicians to write legislation? Band together with other factories in the area to fight the red menace?

Nope. His radical solution was to pay his employees as good or better than they could get from the local union, and treat them better as well. If someone needed a raise, they could walk into his office and make their case rather than go to their union rep and wait for collective bargaining to kick in. Without fail, whenever the union would try to organize his shop, the employees would throw them out.

Now here's the really crazy part. Did this "pay the employees a generous wage" thing tank the business? You might be surprised to learn that it didn't. In fact, his plant was so successful that the owner of the company used the profits from his plant to prop up the other two factories he owned.

From him, I learned that paying your people well and treating them well led to success, and paying rock-bottom wages and treating your employees like shit was a recipe for failure.

But that isn't what I asked. I asked if you think there is something wrong with your friend paying the market price for labour?

Did you miss the part where the market price has gone up?


What's happening here (again) is that workers are realizing they've got more value than just rock-bottom wages. "Here's the job, and here's what it pays...take it or leave it" isn't working anymore.

Awhile back, I walked into my old store and the manager asked if I was interested in coming back to work a few night shifts. It was all i could do not say "are you fucking kidding me?" The fact is that the "market price for labour" is above and beyond what the "pay rock bottom wages" businesses are offering, and they're suffering as a result.

Workers are realizing they have value, and can demand more for their services. That apparently bothers you quite a bit. Maybe these businesses would be better off if they had paid above "market price" from the get-go.

 

[Metaphor]

Did you miss the part where the market price has gone up?

No. I understand the market price has gone up. You believe or implied that your friend would pay 2020 market price if she could. But she can't, so she's paying 2021 market price. But if the market price was the same as it was in 2020, would there be something wrong with your friend paying that?

Workers are realizing they have value, and can demand more for their services. That apparently bothers you quite a bit.

How did you come to falsely believe it bothers me? Because I asked a question?

 

[Ford]

Did you miss the part where the market price has gone up?

No. I understand the market price has gone up. You believe or implied that your friend would pay 2020 market price if she could. But she can't, so she's paying 2021 market price. But if the market price was the same as it was in 2020, would there be something wrong with your friend paying that?

Workers are realizing they have value, and can demand more for their services. That apparently bothers you quite a bit.

How did you come to falsely believe it bothers me? Because I asked a question?

Ah...the Tucker Carlson "I'm just asking questions" defense.

 

[Metaphor]

No. I understand the market price has gone up. You believe or implied that your friend would pay 2020 market price if she could. But she can't, so she's paying 2021 market price. But if the market price was the same as it was in 2020, would there be something wrong with your friend paying that?



How did you come to falsely believe it bothers me? Because I asked a question?

Ah...the Tucker Carlson "I'm just asking questions" defense.

Defense? You made an accusation: that I was bothered "quite a bit" that the market price for labour was higher in 2021 than it was in 2020. The accusation is false, and I was curious as to what made you make it. If you don't have a good answer, that's okay, but I do take exception to the idea that I am lying.

 

[TV and credit cards]

What's all the fuss about? If you don't like your job, or the terms, just quit.

Same solution as 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

Nothing new here. And if the employer is able to replace you with cheap labor, that's good for the economy.

The market fixes the problem -- profit motive, competition, supply-and-demand. If the demand is great enough, then the price (wage) increases as needed. But if the supply of replacement workers is sufficient, then the wage can stay low, saving on labor cost = good for consumers.

All that matters is getting the needed work done = better production = more wealth = higher living standard for all. Even if all the workers are replaced by machines. Whatever it takes.

Economics 1A.

It’s so easy to tell someone else to quit their job, isn’t it? Well, all Lumpynomics aside, all of what is going on right now may be good for the workers or may not. Depends on who wins this race, wages or inflation. I’m expecting it’ll be close. Real close. The wild card is if people stay out of the labor force. That changes the equation.

And this is all well and good but without worker protections, when the economy turns as it is wont to do, bye bye higher wages. I see it even in federal jobs. My previous position and the positions of the folks I worked with, as positions became available, they were offered in lower pay bands.
And union contracts? Get this; not long after I was hired on, I was perusing the union contract handbook and noticed a few curious paragraphs. Seems upon completion of my training, I was to be bumped up to the next pay band. Well that didn’t happen. What say you, HR? HR? Finally a copy of a memo comes my way. Seems they made a little oopsie when they wrote up the contract. Doesn’t anyone proofread these things? I thought maybe a lawyer type? No? No matter. Seems a few select union and management muckety mucks have the authority to simply strike it from this signed, ratified, and delivered union contract. Really? Well! Guess who’s not joining your union? Amazing. Everyone missed this error in the contract but I managed to find it. Well ain’t I something? And I suppose a contract isn’t worth much if a few select people can just start striking paragraphs after the fact.

I’m not big on unions. Just more greedy bastards sticking their fingers in my rice bowl. In my unrealistic world, elected federal and state representatives are the workers advocate.

Daughter made out real well though. At the beginning of the pandemic I asked her to quit her high contact job. That I would help her out financially. Didn’t know at the time our Uncle Sam was going to help out so much. She really made out. Then at the beginning of this past September she goes back and on day one they promote her as their staffing levels were down by about a third. Good. That’s a load off my checking account.

Well, it should be an entertaining holiday season. I’ll be watching How Laissez-faire Economics Stole Christmas. High prices. Empty shelves. Trashed stores. Pissed off ugly people. Should be quite a spectacle.

 

[Ford]

No. I understand the market price has gone up. You believe or implied that your friend would pay 2020 market price if she could. But she can't, so she's paying 2021 market price. But if the market price was the same as it was in 2020, would there be something wrong with your friend paying that?



How did you come to falsely believe it bothers me? Because I asked a question?

Ah...the Tucker Carlson "I'm just asking questions" defense.

Defense? You made an accusation: that I was bothered "quite a bit" that the market price for labour was higher in 2021 than it was in 2020. The accusation is false, and I was curious as to what made you make it. If you don't have a good answer, that's okay, but I do take exception to the idea that I am lying.

So then you're perfectly fine with workers demanding more for their services?

Do tell.

 

[Metaphor]

Defense? You made an accusation: that I was bothered "quite a bit" that the market price for labour was higher in 2021 than it was in 2020. The accusation is false, and I was curious as to what made you make it. If you don't have a good answer, that's okay, but I do take exception to the idea that I am lying.

So then you're perfectly fine with workers demanding more for their services?

Do tell.

Of course I'm okay with it. Why wouldn't I be okay with it?