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Utah lawmaker questions whether sex with an unconscious person is rape ‘in every instance’

 
 
 
ksen

ksen

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http://www.sltrib.com/news/2136918-155/utah-lawmakers-debate-how-to-define

A Utah measure seeking to make that legal clarification won early approval in a state legislative committee Tuesday, but some lawmakers qualified their support, questioning whether the law would designate sex with an unconscious spouse as rape.

"If an individual has sex with their wife while she is unconscious ... a prosecutor could then charge that spouse with rape, theoretically," said Rep. Brian Greene, R-Pleasant Grove."That makes sense in a first date scenario, but to me, not where people have a history of years of sexual activity."
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ksen said:
"If an individual has sex with their wife while she is unconscious ... a prosecutor could then charge that spouse with rape, theoretically," said Rep. Brian Greene, R-Pleasant Grove."That makes sense in a first date scenario, but to me, not where people have a history of years of sexual activity."
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My wife and I have nearly 30 years of sexual activity on record. But it's been consensual each and every time. She has also, on several occasions, said 'no' to sex.
Since i have this strangely liberal idea that i do not OWN my wife, or her va-jay-jay, i do tend to let her have this silly little opinion, and the opportunity to decline sex.
I don't understand it, but recognize that it happens from time to time.
 
Some of the best sex I've ever had was initiated when one or more parties to it was something classifiable as 'unconscious'. I sincerely hope future partners do more of this. And to find partners who want me to do the same. No. Consent does not require present consciousness, or if it does, the exformation implied by 'rape' does not apply to all unconscious sex. The later implies the slightly uncomfortable and counter-intuitive correlary that not all non-consensual sex is 'rape'.
 
I suppose if someone says "Please have sex with me while I am unconscious.", then that sex is not rape. So, this legislator is only 99.999% bat shit nuts.
 
I ponder what else an unconscious person can consent to in the state of Utah.
 
If you have never woken up to sex, you should really try it sometime. I know many men and women who have and who say they enjoyed it very much.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
I ponder what else an unconscious person can consent to in the state of Utah.
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Well ,this is a state where there's an industry to baptize dead people as Mormons. if you can make the decision for someone's afterlife without their consent, than one or more sexual unions is hardly to blink at.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
If you have never woken up to sex, you should really try it sometime. I know many men and women who have and who say they enjoyed it very much.
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But make sure they are someone you'd like to have sex with because it might be ___________________.
 
Sometimes my wife falls asleep while I'm in the middle of having sex with her. If I keep going, is that rape?
 
I sorta get it, I've been woken up by BJs on occasion. However, I've never been woken up mid-sex, and I've never gotten the impression that any of my girlfriends did it for the thrill of getting me off while I was asleep, it was meant to be an erotic way of waking me up so we could have sex, fully awake.

I just don't see the appeal of having sex with a sleeping person. Don't you want your partner to be a vigorous participant? That has always seemed like the point of sex to me. If they aren't, I might as well just masturbate to get myself off....
 
And it's not possible for a long-term partner to have a blanket presumption of consent???

Long ago I told my wife that while I reserve the right to say no she has a presumption of yes and does not need to ask.

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Starr said:
I sorta get it, I've been woken up by BJs on occasion. However, I've never been woken up mid-sex, and I've never gotten the impression that any of my girlfriends did it for the thrill of getting me off while I was asleep, it was meant to be an erotic way of waking me up so we could have sex, fully awake.

I just don't see the appeal of having sex with a sleeping person. Don't you want your partner to be a vigorous participant? That has always seemed like the point of sex to me. If they aren't, I might as well just masturbate to get myself off....
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Yeah, in general I don't see the point, either, but that doesn't make it rape.

Rape is a matter of a lack of consent, not a lack of consciousness.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
And it's not possible for a long-term partner to have a blanket presumption of consent???

Long ago I told my wife that while I reserve the right to say no she has a presumption of yes and does not need to ask.
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[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMBXhDcogcI[/youtube]
 
Loren Pechtel said:
And it's not possible for a long-term partner to have a blanket presumption of consent???
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It's possible.
I think it would have to be establised on a couple-by-couple basis, though. And independent of whether they're married, dating, living together, going steady, or still waiting to be formally introduced.
Some may have a 'waking up to sex' fantasy, or a 'sex with a sleeping partner' fantasy.

But the quoted lawmaker seems to want consent to be assumed along with wedding vows. I don't think that's a reasonable assumption.
 
Keith&Co. said:
Loren Pechtel said:
And it's not possible for a long-term partner to have a blanket presumption of consent???
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It's possible.
I think it would have to be establised on a couple-by-couple basis, though. And independent of whether they're married, dating, living together, going steady, or still waiting to be formally introduced.
Some may have a 'waking up to sex' fantasy, or a 'sex with a sleeping partner' fantasy.

But the quoted lawmaker seems to want consent to be assumed along with wedding vows. I don't think that's a reasonable assumption.
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If you are married you should have a good idea if it is consented or not.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Keith&Co. said:
But the quoted lawmaker seems to want consent to be assumed along with wedding vows. I don't think that's a reasonable assumption.
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If you are married you should have a good idea if it is consented or not.
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i am and i do. And unconscious intimacy is not consented.

That's why i said it should be assessed on a couple-by-couple basis, not assumed by the law based on marital status.

I do have relatives that think there's no such thing as 'spouse rape' because 'she gave away the right to say no when she took a husband.' Many of those relatives live in Utah, by strange coincidence.
 
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