Venezuela - The Politics of Hunger

[maxparrish]

This powerful video shows Venezuela’s desperate politics of hunger
By Francisco Toro September 21 at 3:17 PM

Francisco Toro is executive editor of CaracasChronicles.com and a contributing columnist for Post Global Opinions.

A woman lies sick in bed as her caretaker taps out a message on her cellphone. It rings in a soldier’s pocket, as he joins the ranks of riot troops facing down an opposition march. The caretaker opens the fridge and finds it bare, and sends another message. The soldier reaches into his pocket to read them, while his commanding officer orders the troops to stop the protest. As the soldier reads the message he looks out at the protesters and sees that they are protesting the same things making his life hell: critical food and medicine shortages, enormous lines, the breakdown of Venezuela’s economy and society.

“Dad,” a voiceover says, “remember that the people you’re sent to beat back are going through the same thing we are. It’s unbearable, you know it.”

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKZMUgVgnbs/

The powerful one-minute Web clip hit the Internet on Saturday — and the Venezuelan government responded with fury. By Monday, three of the opposition activists who produced it— Marco Trejo, César Cuellar and James Mathison — were arrested, facing charges in military tribunals for “inciting military rebellion” that could see them spend the next 15 years in jail. Other activists are being sought.

The arrests are just the latest episode in Venezuela’s increasingly rapid descent into a classic police state. News of detentions of regional opposition activists have become routine, as a government that once sold itself as a shining new beacon of enlightened “21st-century socialism” turns to the same types of repressive tactics of its 20th-century counterparts.

With each new set of arrests, a new set of unthinkables is breached. Until last month, it was “unthinkable” that one of the nation’s most celebrated pro-democracy activists could be effectively kidnapped by the security forces and held incommunicado for days before being charged on crudely fabricated evidence. Then it happened to Yon Goicoechea. Until this month, it was unthinkable that you could find yourself behind bars merely for flying a camera drone over an opposition march. Then it happened to Alejandro Puglia. Until this month, no editor had been jailed merely for relaying cellphone video of people protesting. Then it happened to Braulio Jatar. And now, the unthinkable has happened to a Trejo, Cuellar and Mathison. ...

More at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...utm_term=.20dc5201e487&wpisrc=nl_popns&wpmm=1

 

[dismal]

Who'd have ever guessed that a leftist government would become more oppressive and grip tighter to the reins of power as its policies became increasingly destructive and unpopular.

 

[Trausti]

As I understand leftist thinking, the problem is that a cabal of capitalists has been secretly plotting to disrupt the great Chavez revolution; not that there are any obvious and inherent failings to socialism.

 

[maxparrish]

Who'd have ever guessed that a leftist government would become more oppressive and grip tighter to the reins of power as its policies became increasingly destructive and unpopular.

I am as shocked as you, well at least as much as Police Inspector Renault.

In any event, for anyone interested in "2nd Thoughts" literature, I suggest a book by Clifton Ross "Dark Side of Utopia". Ross is a life-long Berkeley leftist who has spent his 'free time' making political pilgrimages to 'revolutionary' utopias. As a far left utopianist (he was born in the 50s) he has been continually disappointed, the previous occasion being the Sandinista revolution. But he always had a rationalization for "what went wrong".

Venezuela was the last hope for his heroic quest; he traveled and lived in "paradise" making hundreds of friends and political contacts (on both sides of the divide). Naturally, he was a Chavez booster for several years - so much so he tried to convince a professional friend of mine to move to his "utopia". But unlike most of the American far left, it took Venezuela to finally shatter his world view.

I had the chance to meet Cliff Ross at one of his book signings, but have tracked his years long journey through a mutual friend of ours. He knows more about the left than any "leftist" here (or most anywhere). He has spent a lifetime simmered in various forms of communism, socialism, liberationist theology, and communalism. In the meantime, he obtained a Phd and ended up teaching English to third world immigrants.

The story, the last half of his book, on Venezuela is most interesting. He traces not only the sights and events that disillusioned him, but also the emotional journeys of many former Chavez'istas that now agree with him. None the less, as he confided, he has lost many friends on the left...not so many in Venezuela (where most see the disaster unfolding) but in the US, where the Berkeley left spouts the usual crazy talk blaming the US (etc.) (e.g. see Unter in this forum).

No...as he tried to explain to his audience at the book signing...it is not a CIA plot. Nor is a grand conspiracy of the Venezuelan right wing. It is what he should have always known - the whole ideology of the left (with a few exceptions) cannot be anything other than it is - a humanitarian disaster.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This powerful video shows Venezuela’s desperate politics of hunger
By Francisco Toro September 21 at 3:17 PM

Francisco Toro is executive editor of CaracasChronicles.com and a contributing columnist for Post Global Opinions.

A woman lies sick in bed as her caretaker taps out a message on her cellphone. It rings in a soldier’s pocket, as he joins the ranks of riot troops facing down an opposition march. The caretaker opens the fridge and finds it bare, and sends another message. The soldier reaches into his pocket to read them, while his commanding officer orders the troops to stop the protest. As the soldier reads the message he looks out at the protesters and sees that they are protesting the same things making his life hell: critical food and medicine shortages, enormous lines, the breakdown of Venezuela’s economy and society.

“Dad,” a voiceover says, “remember that the people you’re sent to beat back are going through the same thing we are. It’s unbearable, you know it.”

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKZMUgVgnbs/

The powerful one-minute Web clip hit the Internet on Saturday — and the Venezuelan government responded with fury. By Monday, three of the opposition activists who produced it— Marco Trejo, César Cuellar and James Mathison — were arrested, facing charges in military tribunals for “inciting military rebellion” that could see them spend the next 15 years in jail. Other activists are being sought.

The arrests are just the latest episode in Venezuela’s increasingly rapid descent into a classic police state. News of detentions of regional opposition activists have become routine, as a government that once sold itself as a shining new beacon of enlightened “21st-century socialism” turns to the same types of repressive tactics of its 20th-century counterparts.

With each new set of arrests, a new set of unthinkables is breached. Until last month, it was “unthinkable” that one of the nation’s most celebrated pro-democracy activists could be effectively kidnapped by the security forces and held incommunicado for days before being charged on crudely fabricated evidence. Then it happened to Yon Goicoechea. Until this month, it was unthinkable that you could find yourself behind bars merely for flying a camera drone over an opposition march. Then it happened to Alejandro Puglia. Until this month, no editor had been jailed merely for relaying cellphone video of people protesting. Then it happened to Braulio Jatar. And now, the unthinkable has happened to a Trejo, Cuellar and Mathison. ...

More at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...utm_term=.20dc5201e487&wpisrc=nl_popns&wpmm=1

While what is going on down there is horrible I don't see trumped up charges here.

This clearly is inciting military rebellion--it's trying to get the troops to quit cracking down on the protests.

 

[maxparrish]

More at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...utm_term=.20dc5201e487&wpisrc=nl_popns&wpmm=1

While what is going on down there is horrible I don't see trumped up charges here.

This clearly is inciting military rebellion--it's trying to get the troops to quit cracking down on the protests.

"Inciting military rebellion" is it, to appeal to an individual soldier's conscious about the moral rightness of violent suppression of free speech? If so, one must assume you were equally unruffled by the crushing of demonstrators in East Berlin in June 1953, in Hungary in 1956, and again in Czechoslovakia in 1968...after all, these peaceful protestors were "inciting military rebellion" by often begging their domestic and soviet soldiers not back the governments (in the first two cases). Off to jail, is it?

Or perhaps it was those rotten Soviet citizens that you wanted jailed, whose moral appeals penetrated to the core of the Soviet Army, who refused to obey orders and move against them or back the Communists.

Or perhaps you are sympathetic to Ceacusescu whose military orders to suppress free speech and protect his regime, was "undermined" by those who appealed to their military to not do so. And (heaven forbid) their military listened and refused to crush the dissent.

And those nasty Chinese in Tiananmen square, baiting those poor Red troops by laying down in front of their tanks. What was their message to the enforcers of oppression?

Loren, your comments were impulsive and ill-considered. People have a right to appeal to the conscious of their oppressors, including their soldiers. Seriously, where were you during the Vietnam protests? You don't think people didn't appeal to US soldiers?

"This clearly is inciting military rebellion--it's trying to get the troops to quit cracking down on the protests."

Want to retract that nonsense, or are we to assume you were on the side of all these governments and regimes?

 

[dismal]

More at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...utm_term=.20dc5201e487&wpisrc=nl_popns&wpmm=1

While what is going on down there is horrible I don't see trumped up charges here.

This clearly is inciting military rebellion--it's trying to get the troops to quit cracking down on the protests.

You don't have a real strong grip on the old "freedom of speech" thing.

Abstract calls to violence (if this may even be styled a call to violence) may not be punished. For incitement restrictions to apply there must be intent, imminence and likelihood of inciting specific acts.

I'm sure untermensche will be along soon to point out you are a fascist for advocating speech restrictions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While what is going on down there is horrible I don't see trumped up charges here.

This clearly is inciting military rebellion--it's trying to get the troops to quit cracking down on the protests.

"Inciting military rebellion" is it, to appeal to an individual soldier's conscious about the moral rightness of violent suppression of free speech? If so, one must assume you were equally unruffled by the crushing of demonstrators in East Berlin in June 1953, in Hungary in 1956, and again in Czechoslovakia in 1968...after all, these peaceful protestors were "inciting military rebellion" by often begging their domestic and soviet soldiers not back the governments (in the first two cases). Off to jail, is it?

You're mixing up "right" with "legal".

I agree with the message of the video--but I also recognize that it is an attempt to get the troops to rebel against their orders and thus the charges are not trumped up.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, it does seem to be a clear violation of the law. It's a horrific law for a place to have and the guys are morally correct to be breaking it but it's definitely an illegal action. The government doesn't seem to need to fabricate evidence or trump up charges in this case.

 

[dismal]

Ya, it does seem to be a clear violation of the law. It's a horrific law for a place to have and the guys are morally correct to be breaking it but it's definitely an illegal action. The government doesn't seem to need to fabricate evidence or trump up charges in this case.

What law?

It would clearly be unconstitutional to punish someone for making that video in this country, but I may have to defer to your greater knowledge of Venezuelan law.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, it does seem to be a clear violation of the law. It's a horrific law for a place to have and the guys are morally correct to be breaking it but it's definitely an illegal action. The government doesn't seem to need to fabricate evidence or trump up charges in this case.

What law?

It would clearly be unconstitutional to punish someone for making that video in this country, but I may have to defer to your greater knowledge of Venezuelan law.

The law against inciting military rebellion. Of course such a law would be unconstitutional in our country, but the government of Venezuela is an oppressive dictatorship so they make horrible laws and don't worry about whether or not those laws would be unconstitutional in countries that don't suck shit.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the government of Venezuela is actually run by terrible people.

 

[maxparrish]

What law?

It would clearly be unconstitutional to punish someone for making that video in this country, but I may have to defer to your greater knowledge of Venezuelan law.

The law against inciting military rebellion. Of course such a law would be unconstitutional in our country, but the government of Venezuela is an oppressive dictatorship so they make horrible laws and don't worry about whether or not those laws would be unconstitutional in countries that don't suck shit.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the government of Venezuela is actually run by terrible people.

Now why would you (and Loren) immediately assume that under Venezuelan law and their Constitution the charges were valid? While all of us are illiterate when it comes to their system jurisprudence, after many years of reading source documents on their political legal disputes I have noticed that "on paper" they support most principles that comply with Human Rights. Mind you, we know their government could care less about their own free speech guarantees or their own Constitution, but I would find it dubious that government charges meets the level of "incitement to military rebellion" (i.e. military coups).

In fact, here is some further detail behind the arrests by the SEBIN secret police: Marco Trejo, César Cuellar and James Mathison were arrested for producing the clip, and they have been looking for the fellow who did the video costume design (Andres Moreno Febres-Cordero). They went to his home, but his mother (a law professor and director of a law school) told them he was not home. According to the Human Rights center at the University (which is handling the case) the arrest(s) were illegal:

- SEBIN did not have an actual civilian arrest warrant, which is required under their legal system.
- SEBIN had a cell phone picture of a MILITARY arrest warrant for their civilian target(s), which is invalid under their system.
- SEBIN police entered the mother's home without consent or warrant, and occupied it for a 1/2 day.
- SEBIN arrested the producers to be brought before a military court - also illegal.

The "charges" were rather nebulous (from a google translation):

"a) Offense to the National Armed Forces; b) Crime against the duties and military honor of usurpation of functions; c) Misuse of Decorations, Badges & Military Title; d) Crimes against Military Administration. None of these crimes was committed by ANDREW, since he neither acted as a military officer, nor was passed through military official, or in any way acted against the Bolivarian National Armed Forces."

http://www.caracaschronicles.com/2016/09/20/sebin-arrests-activists-produced-pj-video-repression/

The mother's son, Andrew, has turned himself in and is being detained at the HQ of SEBIN.

By the way, SEBIN is Venezuela's domestic intelligence agency and serves as a "GESTAPO" for Chavez-ista government.

The restructuring of SEBIN was completed in 2013 with one of its goals to guarantee the "continuity and consolidation of the Bolivarian Revolution in power".[8][10] In the beginning of the 2014–15 Venezuelan protests, SEBIN agents open fire on protesters which resulted in the deaths of two and the dismissal of Brigadier General Manuel Gregorio Bernal Martinez days later.[10] Under the Nicolas Maduro presidency, a building that was originally intended to be a subway station and offices in Plaza Venezuela was converted into the headquarters for SEBIN.[10][11] Dubbed as "La Tumba" or "The Tomb" by Venezuelan officials, political prisoners are allegedly held five-stories underground in inhumane conditions at below freezing temperatures and with no ventilation, sanitation or daylight.[12][13][14] The cells are two by three meters that have a cement bed, security cameras and barred doors, with each cell aligned next to one another so there are no interactions between prisoners.[11] Such conditions have caused prisoners to become very ill though they are denied medical treatment.[14] Allegations of torture in "The Tomb", specifically white torture, are also common, with some prisoners attempting to commit suicide.[11][12][13] Such conditions according to NGO Justice and Process are to force prisoners to plead guilty to crimes they are accused of.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Intelligence_Service

Trumped up charges? Nawwwww...who would dare suggest that?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Now why would you (and Loren) immediately assume that under Venezuelan law and their Constitution the charges were valid? While all of us are illiterate when it comes to their system jurisprudence, after many years of reading source documents on their political legal disputes I have noticed that "on paper" they support most principles that comply with Human Rights. Mind you, we know their government could care less about their own free speech guarantees or their own Constitution, but I would find it dubious that government charges meets the level of "incitement to military rebellion" (i.e. military coups).

The described video certainly sounds like it is doing what the guy is charged with. And inciting rebellion is something that countries like Venezuela would have a law against. Thus I see no reason to think there are trumped-up charges.

Now, the law might violate their constitution but that's a different matter.

According to the Human Rights center at the University (which is handling the case) the arrest(s) were illegal:

- SEBIN did not have an actual civilian arrest warrant, which is required under their legal system.
- SEBIN had a cell phone picture of a MILITARY arrest warrant for their civilian target(s), which is invalid under their system.
- SEBIN police entered the mother's home without consent or warrant, and occupied it for a 1/2 day.
- SEBIN arrested the producers to be brought before a military court - also illegal.

No surprise. I was only addressing the offense, not the arrest. It doesn't surprise me one bit that they ignored their own rules in doing the arrest.

The "charges" were rather nebulous (from a google translation):

"a) Offense to the National Armed Forces; b) Crime against the duties and military honor of usurpation of functions; c) Misuse of Decorations, Badges & Military Title; d) Crimes against Military Administration. None of these crimes was committed by ANDREW, since he neither acted as a military officer, nor was passed through military official, or in any way acted against the Bolivarian National Armed Forces."

He was trying to ursurp their functions.

 

[dismal]

What law?

It would clearly be unconstitutional to punish someone for making that video in this country, but I may have to defer to your greater knowledge of Venezuelan law.

The law against inciting military rebellion. Of course such a law would be unconstitutional in our country, but the government of Venezuela is an oppressive dictatorship so they make horrible laws and don't worry about whether or not those laws would be unconstitutional in countries that don't suck shit.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the government of Venezuela is actually run by terrible people.

Asking a military person to consider whether or not to beat down protestors is not "inciting a military rebellion" any more than asking police not to kill black people or beat down BLM protestors is "inciting a police rebellion".

And in any case, it clearly does not meet the legal requirements (imminent. specific, likely) of incitement and would be covered by the first amendment in this country.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The law against inciting military rebellion. Of course such a law would be unconstitutional in our country, but the government of Venezuela is an oppressive dictatorship so they make horrible laws and don't worry about whether or not those laws would be unconstitutional in countries that don't suck shit.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the government of Venezuela is actually run by terrible people.

Asking a military person to consider whether or not to beat down protestors is not "inciting a military rebellion" any more than asking police not to kill black people or beat down BLM protestors is "inciting a police rebellion".

And in any case, it clearly does not meet the legal requirements (imminent. specific, likely) of incitement and would be covered by the first amendment in this country.

OK, let's back up a bit. Exactly what is it that you feel the argument is between you and I? Based on your responses, I have no idea what you think it is.

I know that it would not be a crime in America, Canada or anywhere else with a functional government and legal system. You seem to be under the impression that I think it would be and I don't know where you got that impression because I really don't know how I could spell that out more clearly.

The government of Venezuela is telling it's soldiers to beat down protesters and this guy is telling soldiers that they should not obey those orders because those orders are morally wrong. Trying to convince soldiers to disobey orders is a crime in Venezuela. That means that they're not trumping up charges against him when they charge him with this because he actually broke that law. This is the full extent of my argument. Whether the law is right or whether it would be a law in a different country are not part of my argument.

 

[dismal]

Asking a military person to consider whether or not to beat down protestors is not "inciting a military rebellion" any more than asking police not to kill black people or beat down BLM protestors is "inciting a police rebellion".

And in any case, it clearly does not meet the legal requirements (imminent. specific, likely) of incitement and would be covered by the first amendment in this country.

OK, let's back up a bit. Exactly what is it that you feel the argument is between you and I? Based on your responses, I have no idea what you think it is.

I know that it would not be a crime in America, Canada or anywhere else with a functional government and legal system. You seem to be under the impression that I think it would be and I don't know where you got that impression because I really don't know how I could spell that out more clearly.

The government of Venezuela is telling it's soldiers to beat down protesters and this guy is telling soldiers that they should not obey those orders because those orders are morally wrong. Trying to convince soldiers to disobey orders is a crime in Venezuela. That means that they're not trumping up charges against him when they charge him with this because he actually broke that law. This is the full extent of my argument. Whether the law is right or whether it would be a law in a different country are not part of my argument.

I guess the big question here is why people are rising up to defend the government of Venezuela.

Given I would expect most people here are fans of free speech and functioning legal systems.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

OK, let's back up a bit. Exactly what is it that you feel the argument is between you and I? Based on your responses, I have no idea what you think it is.

I know that it would not be a crime in America, Canada or anywhere else with a functional government and legal system. You seem to be under the impression that I think it would be and I don't know where you got that impression because I really don't know how I could spell that out more clearly.

The government of Venezuela is telling it's soldiers to beat down protesters and this guy is telling soldiers that they should not obey those orders because those orders are morally wrong. Trying to convince soldiers to disobey orders is a crime in Venezuela. That means that they're not trumping up charges against him when they charge him with this because he actually broke that law. This is the full extent of my argument. Whether the law is right or whether it would be a law in a different country are not part of my argument.

I guess the big question here is why people are rising up to defend the government of Venezuela.

Given I would expect most people here are fans of free speech and functioning legal systems.

Again, which statement of mine do you take as a defence of the government of Venezuela? The entire premise of what I'm saying is that they're immoral and terrible dictators. You seem not to be reading posts before replying to them. I also rechecked the rest of the thread and there doesn't seem to be anyone else rising up to defend the government of Venezuela, either. Who is it that you're talking about when you make that statement and which post are you referring to?

 

[dismal]

Well, if we're all agreed this is a shitty repressive act of a shitty repressive government there is no need to argue about whether it is legal.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, if we're all agreed this is a shitty repressive act of a shitty repressive government there is no need to argue about whether it is legal.

Well, if the shitty, repressive government is the one that defines what's legal then what's legal is whatever is says is legal. Whether or not it should be legal is another question, but it can make up whatever definitions of the law it wants to on any given day.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I guess the big question here is why people are rising up to defend the government of Venezuela.

Given I would expect most people here are fans of free speech and functioning legal systems.

Defend?? This is more a case of a stopped clock. They do a lot of evil, it's just this one allegation is false.