Venezuela - Updated Chronicles in Socialist Success Stories!

[Axulus]

I think we can draw some inferences about human well being from what is going on in Venezuela.

For example, if people are willing to line up for hours to get something that something probably increases human well being. Toilet paper, for example. Medical supplies.

And, human well being would probably be increased even more if they didn't have to line up for hours to get it.

You guys are imposing a standard on others that does not fit their situation. I realize you don't understand this and was just curious what the pile-on would look like. You guys NEVER LET ME DOWN....unfortunately.

What doesn't fit? Can you explain?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think we can draw some inferences about human well being from what is going on in Venezuela.

For example, if people are willing to line up for hours to get something that something probably increases human well being. Toilet paper, for example. Medical supplies.

And, human well being would probably be increased even more if they didn't have to line up for hours to get it.

You guys are imposing a standard on others that does not fit their situation. I realize you don't understand this and was just curious what the pile-on would look like. You guys NEVER LET ME DOWN....unfortunately.

It appears that this is just another version of ignore-the-facts.

 

[dismal]

Barter! It's not just for Greek shopkeepers anymore...

Tissue Paper-for-Venezuelan Oil Swap Offered by Trinidad

(Bloomberg) -- Venezuela, plagued with shortages of basic goods, was offered a reprieve by the Prime Minister of neighboring Trinidad & Tobago: exchange oil for tissue paper.

Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar suggested an oil-for-tissue swap in a news conference Tuesday following a meeting in Port of Spain with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. She said the deal would benefit both countries.

“The concept of commodity sharing is simple -– the Government of Trinidad and Tobago will purchase goods identified by the Government of Venezuela from T&T’s manufacturers, such as tissue paper, gasoline, and parts for machinery,” Persad-Bissessar said.

Well, let it be said that if there is an international conspiracy to deprive Venezuela of toilet paper that Trinidad and Tobago are not part of it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...r-for-venezuelan-oil-swap-offered-by-trinidad

 

[Axulus]

In a faraway land, an eccentric king nailed an edict to the door of his palace that said: “Henceforth, $20 bills will be sold here for $1.”

Within minutes, his subjects were clamoring for those cut-rate twenties. So the king posted a second edict: “Each $20 bill shall be used only to buy things abroad.” Then a third: “Whatever you buy abroad with your $20 you must sell in our kingdom for $2.”

“This will make me beloved!” he thought. “Foreign goods will be cheap for all.”

But it didn’t work out that way. Soon, the lines for $20 bills were matched by lines at every store that sold foreign goods.

Since nobody saw much point in buying anything abroad to sell for just $2, people mostly pocketed the twenties and the imports never showed up on store shelves. And if any item did hit the shelves, whether it was a $2 box of diapers or a $2 sack of flour, it could be sold for $6 on the black market — so standing in line at the shops became a job.

The king was incensed. A new edict appeared: “Pocketing your twenty and marking up a $2 import are henceforth economic crimes, punishable by imprisonment.”

Riot police officers roamed the queues sniffing out dissent; subjects were recruited as spies. “It must be a conspiracy! A foreign plot to overthrow the monarchy,” raged the king.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/07/o...rothy-kronick-venezuelas-currency-circus.html

 

[untermensche]

In a faraway land, an eccentric king nailed an edict to the door of his palace that said: “Henceforth, $20 bills will be sold here for $1.”

Within minutes, his subjects were clamoring for those cut-rate twenties. So the king posted a second edict: “Each $20 bill shall be used only to buy things abroad.” Then a third: “Whatever you buy abroad with your $20 you must sell in our kingdom for $2.”

“This will make me beloved!” he thought. “Foreign goods will be cheap for all.”

But it didn’t work out that way. Soon, the lines for $20 bills were matched by lines at every store that sold foreign goods.

Since nobody saw much point in buying anything abroad to sell for just $2, people mostly pocketed the twenties and the imports never showed up on store shelves. And if any item did hit the shelves, whether it was a $2 box of diapers or a $2 sack of flour, it could be sold for $6 on the black market — so standing in line at the shops became a job.

The king was incensed. A new edict appeared: “Pocketing your twenty and marking up a $2 import are henceforth economic crimes, punishable by imprisonment.”

Riot police officers roamed the queues sniffing out dissent; subjects were recruited as spies. “It must be a conspiracy! A foreign plot to overthrow the monarchy,” raged the king.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/07/o...rothy-kronick-venezuelas-currency-circus.html

These policies were started in 2003.

Venezuela is having acute problems.

Why did it take 11 years for these policies to result in shortages if the problem is the policies?

 

[Perspicuo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/07/o...rothy-kronick-venezuelas-currency-circus.html

These policies were started in 2003.

Venezuela is having acute problems.

Why did it take 11 years for these policies to result in shortages if the problem is the policies?

What in a country is static? Somethings take time, like when US booms eventually become busts.

This is a bust.
Of a different kind, but a bust nevertheless.

Politically there is nothing democratic in the Chavista régime, and in economy there is nothing even barely sane.

 

[untermensche]

These policies were started in 2003.

Venezuela is having acute problems.

Why did it take 11 years for these policies to result in shortages if the problem is the policies?

What in a country is static? Somethings take time, like when US booms eventually become busts.

This is a bust.
Of a different kind, but a bust nevertheless.

Politically there is nothing democratic in the Chavista régime, and in economy there is nothing even barely sane.

Nothing democratic?

It is as democratic as the US, which isn't saying much.

 

[Jayjay]

What in a country is static? Somethings take time, like when US booms eventually become busts.

This is a bust.
Of a different kind, but a bust nevertheless.

Politically there is nothing democratic in the Chavista régime, and in economy there is nothing even barely sane.

Nothing democratic?

It is as democratic as the US, which isn't saying much.

By what standard? 2012 Democracy Index scores US at 8.11 (21st), and Venezuela at 5.15 (95th), for example.

 

[untermensche]

Nothing democratic?

It is as democratic as the US, which isn't saying much.

By what standard? 2012 Democracy Index scores US at 8.11 (21st), and Venezuela at 5.15 (95th), for example.

By what standard, exactly.

Here is what they said about the US.

The US and the UK remain at the bottom end of the full democracy category. US democracy has been adversely affected by a deepening of the polarisation of the political scene and political brinkmanship and paralysis. The UK is beset by a deep institutional crisis.

The Economist Intelligence Unit sees the problem with US democracy as a problem of warring parties.

Yet totally ignored is the influence of collected capital.

By what standard indeed.

 

[Jayjay]

By what standard? 2012 Democracy Index scores US at 8.11 (21st), and Venezuela at 5.15 (95th), for example.

By what standard, exactly.

Here is what they said about the US.

The US and the UK remain at the bottom end of the full democracy category. US democracy has been adversely affected by a deepening of the polarisation of the political scene and political brinkmanship and paralysis. The UK is beset by a deep institutional crisis.

The Economist Intelligence Unit sees the problem with US democracy as a problem of warring parties.

Yet totally ignored is the influence of collected capital.

By what standard indeed.

"Influence of collected capital" is just words, unless you can quantify it. And being at the bottom of the full democracy category of countries is hardly relevant, because Venezuela doesn't even make it to that category. Yes, US has problems compared to Norway or Sweden, but by almost any reasonable standard, it ranks way above Venezuela.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/07/o...rothy-kronick-venezuelas-currency-circus.html

These policies were started in 2003.

Venezuela is having acute problems.

Why did it take 11 years for these policies to result in shortages if the problem is the policies?

The problems have been going on for a long time. As the problems get bigger and bigger the government goes even more insane trying to continue it's destructive path.

 

[maxparrish]

Some new items are too sad to comment on:

When I began this blog, my objective was to show to those abroad how Chavismo’s claims were always exaggerated and inaccurate, how history was being changed and how Chavismo twisted the truth and the law just enough to get its own way to kidnap the State and its institutions. This objective of this message was achieved long ago, thanks to many people, blogs and institutions.

What Venezuela faces today is quite different. All institutions of Government, checks, balances and the rule of law are in the hands of the same ideological party and Government. Media is mostly controlled by Chavismo, and what little is not, is either being asphyxiated by the Government (Tal Cual is shutting down its daily edition today due to the lack of newsprint) or uses self-censorship in order to avoid confrontations with the Government.

But the level of paranoia and indolence exhibited by Government and PSUV officials has now reached levels of insensitivity that even after observing Chavismo for sixteen years simply flabbergast me.

Upon the death of a 14 year old school boy this week in the hands of a member of the national police, the Government machinery immediately began spinning the murder . The facts are clear, the kid was leaving school and was caught in the middle of a demonstration, he hid under car and a policeman pulled him out of from under it. As the kid started telling the cop not to repress them, the cop simply shot at his head, with whatever type of gun he was using, killing him. As if this was not sufficient, the cops then tried to drag the body away with their motorcycle, but they were stopped by the friends of the kid and the protesters who simply could not believe what was happening.

Before any specific facts were known, Maduro, who was in Trinidad, made statements suggesting that Colombian paramilitary groups had infiltrated the country into San Cristobal (where the murder occurred) and that the kid belonged to a right wing sect…Yes, he was the member of a Boy Scout troop. Maduro also spewed out all his usual vile about the US wanting to overthrow him, the right wing opposition and the like....

http://devilsexcrement.com/

 

[untermensche]

By what standard, exactly.

Here is what they said about the US.

The US and the UK remain at the bottom end of the full democracy category. US democracy has been adversely affected by a deepening of the polarisation of the political scene and political brinkmanship and paralysis. The UK is beset by a deep institutional crisis.

The Economist Intelligence Unit sees the problem with US democracy as a problem of warring parties.

Yet totally ignored is the influence of collected capital.

By what standard indeed.

"Influence of collected capital" is just words, unless you can quantify it. And being at the bottom of the full democracy category of countries is hardly relevant, because Venezuela doesn't even make it to that category. Yes, US has problems compared to Norway or Sweden, but by almost any reasonable standard, it ranks way above Venezuela.

In the US this has been closely studied and quantified.

And the results are exactly what anybody with eyes and a memory would expect. The rich have almost all the influence in the US Congress and about 85% of the population has ZERO influence on the legislation Congress considers.

It is clear. Capitalism has killed US democracy. There are merely the trappings of democracy left, elections and so on. But once the elections are over there is next to no real democracy. No ability of the masses to influence legislation.

To think the US is better than Venezuela in this regard is pure fantasy.

 

[Perspicuo]

What in a country is static? Somethings take time, like when US booms eventually become busts.

This is a bust.
Of a different kind, but a bust nevertheless.

Politically there is nothing democratic in the Chavista régime, and in economy there is nothing even barely sane.

Nothing democratic?

It is as democratic as the US, which isn't saying much.

There is no freedom of the press in Venezuela. What gets through to TV and radio is Chavista.

 

[untermensche]

Nothing democratic?

It is as democratic as the US, which isn't saying much.

There is no freedom of the press in Venezuela. What gets through to TV and radio is Chavista.

The message in the US media is just as limited.

 

[Perspicuo]

There is no freedom of the press in Venezuela. What gets through to TV and radio is Chavista.

The message in the US media is just as limited.

By open threats from the government? Has the US government closed newspapers and TV stations?

Cuba, Venezuela y Honduras, los países con menos libertad de prensa de América
http://internacional.elpais.com/internacional/2014/05/02/actualidad/1398990311_813205.html
(Cuba, Venezuela y Honduras, the countries with the least freedom of press in the Americas)

SIP preocupada por restricciones a la libertad de expresión en Venezuela
http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional...cciones-a-la-libertad-de-expresion-en-venezue
(Interamerican Press Association concerned about restrictions to freedom of press in Venezuela)

Also, check out Reporters Without Borders' (Reporters Sans Frontières) reports on Venezuela:
http://en.rsf.org/venezuela.html


And what's with this comparing Venezuela with the US? I think the discussion in the US is like "Is the situation in Venezuela so bad that we should we meddle in it?", which is horrifying. Nevertheless, I couldn't care less. Venezuela's situation is polarized and the government is doing a fine job of promoting the situation and finding excuses to arrest whoever it "considers" is "conspiring" to "overthrow the government", which it enjoys the privilege of defining. That's what's going on and that's what I care about. The truth.

 

[untermensche]

By open threats from the government? Has the US government closed newspapers and TV stations?

Have US media outlets openly advocated for the overthrow of the government?

Have they actively participated in coup attempts?

 

[Derec]

Have they actively participated in coup attempts?

You know who led an actual coup attempt? Your hero Chavez.

 

[SimpleDon]

...

And what's with this comparing Venezuela with the US? I think the discussion in the US is like "Is the situation in Venezuela so bad that we should we meddle in it?", which is horrifying. ...

I can't guarantee that we, the US, won't meddle in Venezuela. Among a lot of other really bad ideas that he had, George W.Bush interfered with the presidential elections in Venezuela, pumping money to Chavez's opponents.

Venezuela is a touchstone with American conservatives, an example of why,

• It is folly to try to achieve social justice through the government.
• That their policies of pursuing social injustice through the government are far superior.
• That socialism is a thoroughly tested, ideologically driven system that always fails.
• That therefore we should use their completely untested. ideologically driven fantasy system of the government free, self-regulating, self-organizing free market.
• That the fact that the government can't do everything well in the economy...
• Proves that they are right that the government should do nothing in the economy.

These things are so obvious that they don't even have to explain them, they can just say that "Venezuela is proof that ObamaCare can't ever work," for example.

 

[untermensche]

Have they actively participated in coup attempts?

You know who led an actual coup attempt? Your hero Chavez.

He overthrew a government allowing foreign exploitation for personal monetary gain, then he established open elections and won every time he ran.

His goal was to lift the 25% of the Venezuelan population that was completely ignored by the previous government, and lived in severe poverty, out of that poverty.

He helped millions of these people rise from the waste of capitalism.

This angered many Venezuelans and foreign investors who were exploiting those severely poor natives and exploiting the natural resources of the nation.

And we have seen how this anger has played out ever since.