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Venezuela - Updated Chronicles in Socialist Success Stories!

I thought I said that Venezuela's specific policies will crush an economy regardless of what you call Venezuela.

And I would think an Anarchist would object to the sorts of heavyhanded government interventions into the economy we are talking about here.

That is why I said there are things the government is doing that I don't agree with.

But that doesn't mean I know for certain they won't work.

Well, that was part of my earlier point. It's not that much of a mystery what these policies will cause to happen.

What does any basic economics textbook say will happen if you introduce price controls on a good at far below its market clearing price?

What is happening when Venezuela does it?

BUT they might learn it better if the economy was not under constant attack from within and without.

Yes, yes, I know. Joe Biden must be stopped.
 
What policies of the Venezuelan government do you disagree with?

Why, for example, do you think they are having problems keeping goods in stores?

Acute problems like this can be tied to the sudden drop in the price of oil.
The artificially high oil prices is what kept these problems from being exposed before. Besides, Venezuela could have diversified and prepared when the prices were still high, and not doing so still shows gross negligence.
 
Acute problems like this can be tied to the sudden drop in the price of oil.
The artificially high oil prices is what kept these problems from being exposed before. Besides, Venezuela could have diversified and prepared when the prices were still high, and not doing so still shows gross negligence.

They were experiencing shortages long before oil prices fell.

They would not be experiencing shortages at $50 oil now if they weren't governed by economic morons.
 
Yes, they did.

One of the weirdest things about Venezuela not being a socialist country is the lengths some socialists go to defend it.

What is weirder is how capitalists try to deny that places like Haiti and Honduras and Guatemala are capitalist.

Where would you rather live?

Socialist Venezuela or capitalist Haiti?

What is weirder is how so many socialists blame capitalism for the failures of corruption.
 
Other news sources have started to note the fiendish plots being orchestrated by Joe Biden, so I guess it was not an Onion thing:

On his return Friday, he went on television to say that at the meeting various unidentified presidents had warned him that the United States was plotting against him, and "to watch out for Biden."

"In Washington, they met with all the governments of the Caribbean and told them that the government of Venezuela was going to be overthrown."

"Vice President Biden, look me in the eyes: Is this what you want for relations with Latin America and the Caribbean?"

http://news.yahoo.com/venezuelan-leader-lashes-biden-amid-deepening-crisis-174621931.html
 
What is weirder is how capitalists try to deny that places like Haiti and Honduras and Guatemala are capitalist.

Where would you rather live?

Socialist Venezuela or capitalist Haiti?

What is weirder is how so many socialists blame capitalism for the failures of corruption.

Calling the failures of capitalism corruption just shows what capitalism can look like.
 
What is weirder is how so many socialists blame capitalism for the failures of corruption.

Calling the failures of capitalism corruption just shows what capitalism can look like.

OK, so next question. If Venezuela is capitalist why are Joe Biden and the other capitalists at war with it?

Why aren't they going after somewhere socialist like........er.........Sweden?
 
Calling the failures of capitalism corruption just shows what capitalism can look like.

OK, so next question. If Venezuela is capitalist why are Joe Biden and the other capitalists at war with it?

Why aren't they going after somewhere socialist like........er.........Sweden?

I think you missed the point. You are so enamored of the word "capitalism" you have forgotten that it is just a word...one that does not actually mean a lot. It is the source of its own very special form of corruption. What I was trying to point out now for some years is that government must be able to make the adjustments necessary for the well being of the governed. It also must take into account ALL OF THOSE IT PRESUMES TO GOVERN and treat them FAIRLY. Along comes the predatory capitalist and begins gathering up the commons to himself and his organization till there is nothing left for the common man...something will happen. If the remedy is peaceable, so much the better. We are all just dots in the timeline of human history. Egalitarianism and fairness make for a better chance of survival of our people than the abuses of aristocracy or capitalist oligarchs. How we attain this egalitarianism and fairness is open to debate, but that should be our goal.

Venezuela elected Chavez and American coups sponsors plotted to overthrow him. Chavez did one thing right...instill in enough people the idea that their votes would choose who would run their country. Foreign oligarchs have been in a funk ever since, no doubt redoubling their efforts since their coups in Caracas was run out of town. Biden is obviously on the side of the foreign oil companies that stood to gain if the U.S. sponsored coups had succeeded.

My point to you was that you are making a quasi-religion out of Capitalism when it is too ill defined to even be considered that way.
 
OK, so next question. If Venezuela is capitalist why are Joe Biden and the other capitalists at war with it?

Why aren't they going after somewhere socialist like........er.........Sweden?

I think you missed the point. You are so enamored of the word "capitalism" you have forgotten that it is just a word...one that does not actually mean a lot. It is the source of its own very special form of corruption. What I was trying to point out now for some years is that government must be able to make the adjustments necessary for the well being of the governed. It also must take into account ALL OF THOSE IT PRESUMES TO GOVERN and treat them FAIRLY. Along comes the predatory capitalist and begins gathering up the commons to himself and his organization till there is nothing left for the common man...something will happen. If the remedy is peaceable, so much the better. We are all just dot in the timeline of human history. Egalitarianism and fairness make for a better chance of survival of our people that the abuses of aristocracy or capitalist oligarchs. How we attain this egalitarianism and fairness is open to debate, but that should be our goal.

Venezuela elected Chavez and American sponsors plotted to overthrow him. Chavez did one thing right...instill in enough people the idea that their votes would choose who would run their country. Foreign oligarchs have been in a funk, no doubt redoubling their efforts since their coups in Caracas was run out of town. Biden is obviously on the side of the foreign oil companies that stood to gain if the U.S. sponsored coups had succeeded.

My point to you was that you are making a quasi-religion out of Capitalism when it is too ill defined to even be considered that way.

Uttemensche is the one who keeps droning on about Venezuela being capitalism, not me.

Why don't you lecture him?
 
What is weirder is how capitalists try to deny that places like Haiti and Honduras and Guatemala are capitalist.

Where would you rather live?

Socialist Venezuela or capitalist Haiti?

What is weirder is how so many socialists blame capitalism for the failures of corruption.

It looks like Untermensche is saying Venezuela is socialist.

Seriously here, Capitalism is a system that can only lead to corruption or revolution. It has no redeeming qualities. It enforces a game on unwilling and sometimes unable citizens which results in losers and winners. The winners all love it. The losers are a divided bunch...some only wish they could be winners...others hate it. The point is, it enforces the need to win economically on all of us over and above any other concern. It is the religion of unbridled, amoral individualists. Once the stratification of society becomes established it really just resembles an modern version of middle ages aristocracy.

Biden is perhaps one of the most lack luster politicians I have seen. He is clearly a lackey of his handlers and really just brings aggression to the table...much like Hilary in that regard. When a politician strongly avoids saying anything supportive of a country for many years on end, it is obvious, if they are high ranking Democrats or Republicans, they have plans to destabilize and overturn the government there...especially when coups from their own country attempted there have failed and they have had to endure the shame of having failed.
 
What is weirder is how so many socialists blame capitalism for the failures of corruption.

Calling the failures of capitalism corruption just shows what capitalism can look like.

Corruption can be a problem in both capitalism and socialism. If anything, it tends to be more of an issue in "socialist" countries because they are better at suppressing dissent.
 
Calling the failures of capitalism corruption just shows what capitalism can look like.

Corruption can be a problem in both capitalism and socialism. If anything, it tends to be more of an issue in "socialist" countries because they are better at suppressing dissent.

CIA infiltration however seems to mainly be a problem in Socialist countries. According to you however, we are not to worry: After the regime change, the people will welcome us back with open arms...just like Dubbiya said!;)
 
Corruption can be a problem in both capitalism and socialism. If anything, it tends to be more of an issue in "socialist" countries because they are better at suppressing dissent.

CIA infiltration however seems to mainly be a problem in Socialist countries. According to you however, we are not to worry: After the regime change, the people will welcome us back with open arms...just like Dubbiya said!;)

You continue to assume US skullduggery without evidence.

Many of us predicted what was going to happen to Venezuela based on an understanding of economics. We weren't assuming anybody trying to undermine it, we were just looking at the logical consequences.

Those consequences have to a large degree come true--if it requires the CIA to undermine their economy why did we predict it correctly without considering any undermining?
 
CIA infiltration however seems to mainly be a problem in Socialist countries. According to you however, we are not to worry: After the regime change, the people will welcome us back with open arms...just like Dubbiya said!;)

You continue to assume US skullduggery without evidence.

Many of us predicted what was going to happen to Venezuela based on an understanding of economics. We weren't assuming anybody trying to undermine it, we were just looking at the logical consequences.

Those consequences have to a large degree come true--if it requires the CIA to undermine their economy why did we predict it correctly without considering any undermining?

It reminds me of the fundamentalist Islamic countries blaming all their problems on the West. It can't be the Islamic policies fucking up their country. No, those are the most perfect policies possible ordained by Allah himself. Therefore, the source of the problems must be the West (or other outsiders).
 
Well, that would help explain why there economy sucks so bad. Maybe you are on to something.

What explains the problems in capitalist Haiti and Honduras and Guatemala?

Why does capitalism suck so bad there?

A breakdown of individual property rights and the rule of law. Which they also have a smidge of a problem with in Venezuela these days.
 
What explains the problems in capitalist Haiti and Honduras and Guatemala?

Why does capitalism suck so bad there?

A breakdown of individual property rights and the rule of law. Which they also have a smidge of a problem with in Venezuela these days.

Haiti has been capitalist for decades. It has even had elected leaders thrown out by the US. It has been invaded many times by the US. It's economy was directly controlled by the US until 1947.

Yet none of that has helped this capitalist nation prosper.

The miracle of capitalism.

I see the appeal.
 
A breakdown of individual property rights and the rule of law. Which they also have a smidge of a problem with in Venezuela these days.

Haiti has been capitalist for decades. It has even had elected leaders thrown out by the US. It has been invaded many times by the US. It's economy was directly controlled by the US until 1947.

Yet none of that has helped this capitalist nation prosper.

The miracle of capitalism.

I see the appeal.

Does Haiti have a strong commitment to individual property rights and the rule of law?

Because that's what my comment that you quoted was about, and your reply does not seem to have addressed.
 
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