VW -- the deceit was known at the executive level, smoking gun found

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the actual victim is the government, not the people. They got a clean car, but it was only actually clean and not government clean.

And that's why I don't think highly of this fraud case.

The proof that it was actually clean and not government clean? I know what the emissions were, nobody hear can answer my question as to what the emission were, they are outraged and ignorant at the same time.

Just because they don't have good data on just how much crud is emitted doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Just because they don't have good data on just how much crud is emitted doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

I used to own a VW. The crud that was NOT emitted was also a problem. But I guess Jason thinks I'm the government.

 

[Rhea]

It matters because people are getting outraged when they don't even know what they're outraged about, and VW is taking a gigantic financial hit over this uninformed outrage.

What is your question/point in this?
Are you arguing that the violation amounts are inconsequential or something?
That it's wrong to be outraged about violations of the limit unless you are ready to argue that the limit is a good one?
Or are you arguing something else. I can't tell why you are asking this question.

They violated the limits of both US and Euro NOx emissions. Since those cause respiratory hazards as well as acid rain, it is good to regulate them, especially in areas with heavy vehicle use.

They violated them by lying. That's enough to be outraged, dont you think? If you dont like the NOx standard, argue that, don't just lie about your product while everyone else complies.

 

[laughing dog]

It matters because people are getting outraged when they don't even know what they're outraged about, and VW is taking a gigantic financial hit over this uninformed outrage.

I agree, and your post is a perfect example of uninformed outrage.

VW committed fraud against purchasers of VW cars, the US gov't and damaged everyone in the country with the extra emission that should not have happened.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It matters because people are getting outraged when they don't even know what they're outraged about, and VW is taking a gigantic financial hit over this uninformed outrage.

I agree, and your post is a perfect example of uninformed outrage.

So you know the actual emissions? Nope? Thought so. That's why you can ignorantly call my informed point "uninformed outrage".

I think the actual victim is the government, not the people. They got a clean car, but it was only actually clean and not government clean.

And that's why I don't think highly of this fraud case.

The proof that it was actually clean and not government clean? I know what the emissions were, nobody hear can answer my question as to what the emission were, they are outraged and ignorant at the same time.

Just because they don't have good data on just how much crud is emitted doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

Ha! I'm the only one here who sees to know anything about what the actual emissions were. So how big is the problem? What are the emissions levels on the road versus on the test? What was the setting that enabled VW to "cheat" the test?

Loren, you make a big noise about some government excesses, but in the end ...

 

[laughing dog]

So you know the actual emissions? Nope? Thought so.

Your outrage is now based on your imagined ability to read minds? You have no clue as to what anyone actually knows (or does not know).

That's why you can ignorantly call my informed point "uninformed outrage".

No, it is because you are either deliberately ignoring the fraud or because you don't know what fraud is. So, I amend my observation that your outrage is either disingenuous or uninformed.

 

[Rhea]

Ha! I'm the only one here who sees to know anything about what the actual emissions were. So how big is the problem? What are the emissions levels on the road versus on the test? What was the setting that enabled VW to "cheat" the test?

.

No, you're not the only one. You ignored my questions. I spent a large part of my career analyzing US FTP test data, designing emission control tests and carrying out said tests, then presenting the results on three continents. I work mainly in gasoline engines, but my husband works on the diesel side, so it's not a mystery here.

_ARE_ you claiming that the levels of the NOx emissions in the cheated vehicles, as shown in the link barbos gave earlier in this thread, are insignificant?

Here's what was posted:

The EPA's NOV alleged that under normal driving conditions, the software suppressed the emissions controls, allowing better fuel economy, at the expense of emitting up to 40 times more nitrogen oxides than allowed by law.[12][71]

What _is_ your point?
_WHY_ are you claiming that people not typing in the numbers somehow makes some point for you? What point are you claiming?

It's possible that people get what you are saying and disagree. That can happen...