laughing dog
Contributor
The point is that it makes your arguments appear to be driven by irrational bigotry instead of rational reasoning.
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War Against Iran?
- Thread starter ZiprHead
- Start date
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
The "leadership" of the USA has been itching for war against Iran for decades. I am grateful that it hasn't happened under Bush or Obama. Trump isn't a warmonger like them, but he does listen to the same crowd they listened to. Getting out of Syria and Yemen is a good thing for the US. Going to war with Iran is a bad thing for the US, and there is no actual basis for doing so.
As you say, he was attacked. You want him to sit there and get sunk?
In the middle of combat he did mistake a civilian jet for a fighter. Unfortunately, civilians that blunder onto a battlefield tend to get hit by mistake. Blame the bozos that started a fight under the flight path of a civilian airliner.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Wow. He went into their territory, and was the "victim" when they attacked. He went into their territory. Theirs. That was the initial act of aggression.
They responded to his aggression. That is considered an act of aggression by Iran by those who really want to go to war.
They responded to his aggression. That is considered an act of aggression by Iran by those who really want to go to war.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
The unwritten post war agreement was the US provides security for the Arabs and they keep pumping oil.
It is really not about the USA or Israel for that matter.
The primary antagonists are Saudis and Persians, Shia vs Sunni. It goes back to early Islam and who represents authentic Islam as inheritors of Mohamed. Apostasy or caging sects is a serious offense in Iran and SA. People have been beheaded in SA for apostasy.The Iranian theocracy considers the Arab Muslim monarchies invalid and want to replace them with an Iranian hegemony.
There was a Palestinian civil war and a civil war between Palestinians and Jordan, neither which had anything to do with USA or Israel. The idea that the region can stabilize into a western liberal democracy is fantasy. It is family and tribal.
In reality Iran is the state that could stabilize the region. They have a long sense of history and culture compared to Arabs. Take away sanctions and their belligerence and Iran would dominate economically. That would be the real Israeli fear.
The civil war in Syria was essentially a proxy Iran Saudi war.
The region is riddled with factions. Look at the Wiki page on the Lebanese Civil War. A long list of oppenets and nothing to do with Israel and the USA.
Lebanon is essentially occupied by terrorists fended by Iran. Heavily armed and stockpiled.
We screwed up yet again by getting mired in a sectarian civil war in Syria. Yemen is reported to be a wasteland, Iran vs SA.
Getting involved in Venezuela would be yet another endless civil war.
The Iran Iraq war. The Iraqi taking of Kuwait and would have taken SA. They are fucking crazy.
SLD
Contributor
They were firing on the Vincennes because the Vincennes had crossed into their territorial waters. The CO deliberately went off station, ignored orders to return and found himself in a sudden gun battle when he crossed into territorial waters. Supposedly he wasn’t aware that he’d crossed into their waters. Warships that cross territorial waters without permission and with a country that’s none too friendly with theirs will indeed find themselves under attack. Even if they do so by mistake.
Again it’s how wars get started. And Drumpf could be causing one now. Actually it may be a rogue Bolton at NSC. That motherfucker is indeed a warmonger.
SLD
SLD
Contributor
I blame the bozo who violated orders, went charging into Iranian territorial waters, glory seeking, and couldn’t tell the difference between a descending F-4 and a climbing airbus. The CO's behavior was disgraceful and brought great discredit on our Naval service. He should’ve been court martialled.
SLD
SLD
Contributor
Trump has no fucking clue what he is or what he’s doing when it comes to foreign policy. He'll flit from one extreme to the other, from calling Kim rocket man one day, and a great guy the next. He’s getting played by all of them, especially his staff , Bolton and Pompeo.
funinspace
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Which has nothing to do with laying waste to Libya nor the creation of the Syrian civil war...
The 'Syrian civil war' was fed and nurtured by the Saudi's and their little piglet kingdoms, Turkey, and the US. Iran and Russia were part of longstanding support of the only legitimate government in Syria. The western media discovered a fully functional CIA/US base of operation to support the 'rebels' fighting Assad's government 6 months after the civil war had seriously kicked into gear. How long had it already been there is anyone's guess. ISIS and Al Qaeda are Sunni monstrosities. It may be at a level a Saudi vs Iran proxy battle, but it is the Saudi's and their friends who picked the fight and fed the monsters.
Yemen is a wasteland largely because the Saudi's are bombing the shit out of it with direct US help. The former dictator abdicated, but seemed to have a change of heart later (maybe the Saudi's convinced him to try and get it back). Either way the Houthi's were gaining control of the country and the Saudi's were pissy that ethnic Zaidi's/Shia's were going to be in charge.
Yeah, Iran supports various groups at battle and terrorism in the region. But to suggest that somehow they are the biggest generators of violence and chaos is laughable. I'm not sure how one would try to quantify it. Yemen is at best a draw between who is worst, but I'd still lean toward the Saudi's. But I'll add up Syria, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and Libya against any list you can provide for Iranian chaos vs. Saudi/US chaos. But sure, Iran has supported the Palestinians, militia groups in Lebanon, and militias in the rump state of Iraq (as well as Iraq). Iran supported a lot of the heavy lifting in stopping the expansion of ISIS in Iraq.
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Yep, and that is the scary part (underlined)...
Derec
Contributor
Why don't you tell me what exactly you find objectionable.
Derec
Contributor
Sure.
Isn't he dead?
The mistake there was for Saddam to invade Kuwait.
What led to 9/11 was Islamist ideology of Al Qaeda. Ideology that goes back to Mo's ramblings in the 7th century.
US Navy has the right to sail international waters. If weird beards do something stupid like order an attack on it, US should retaliate. Any war would be on the Iranians, not US.
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The entire region would gain if the theocracy were removed from power in Iran.
Derec
Contributor
From the wiki: "Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.[2][3]"
The Iranians started shooting first.
Derec
Contributor
Iranians (through Hezbollah and the Revolutionary Guards) are very involved in Syria. I do not think they are active in Libya (yet), but Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza, and Yemen are either totally or partially controlled by the Iranian theocrats.
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There is nothing bigoted about mocking theocracies. Why does the US Left have a soft spot for Iran anyway? Is it because of their anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism that US hard left also shares?
Derec
Contributor
Leaving the Middle East under Iranian domination would be the definition of fucking stupid. Iranians are on a very aggressively expansionist track: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen. What's next? Bahrain? Directly invading Saudi oil fields? How much do they need to do before you think it's ok to check them?
Had Hitler been checked when he anschlussed Austria or remilitarized Rheinland, WWII could probably have been avoided. We need more Churchill, less Chamberlain!
Derec
Contributor
There is nothing legitimate about the regime of that bloodthirsty optometrist. The Assad regime is a dictatorship propped up by ruthless violence against dissidents.
And Hezbollah is a Shiite monstrosity. Hamas and Islamic Jihad, while nominally Sunni, are also funded and controlled by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
It's "Saudis". You don't put an apostrophe every time there is an s.
Iranian-backed Houthis (whose motto is, by the way, "God Is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam") have done their share to make Yemen a wasteland. For example:
Yemen: Houthi Landmines Kill Civilians, Block Aid
So, in Syria you think Saudis are in the wrong because Assad was in power and they "picked a fight". But Houthis "picking a fight" is right in Yemen? It seems you automatically take whatever side Iranians are on!
Yes, some faction trying to take control of a country is good when Iranians try to do it (Yemen) but bad when Iranians control the current regime (Syria)? Dictators like Assad are not that bad when controlled by Iran even when they use chlorine and nerve gas against civilians, as Assad did. Obama/Biden really screwed up with their "red line" there, by the way!
Speaking of "A's'sad" and his "friend's":
Syria war: UN alarm at escalation of hostilities in Idlib
BBC said:
Only because they are a different franchise. Not because they oppose the project of building an Islamic theocracy. Iranians (or as you would write "Iranian's") execute apostates and gays just as giddily as "I'SI'S".
Jimmy Higgins
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Yeah, W just had Afghanistan and Iraq. Obama made a peace deal with Iran... and you still bitch about how the Obama Admin wanted war with Iran.
War with Iran would be America's first real war since Vietnam. You just don't walk into that without have a completely fucked in the head guy in the White House with inadequate staff and advisors who are either insane or over their own heads.
Is Pompeo as bad as Bolton? I have no idea what is going on in Pompeo's head... he hasn't been around all that long... making one wonder who the fuck approved him for his position in the Trump Administration?!SLD said:
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Trump continues to raise the bar on Presidentially acceptable stupid for the GOP every day.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
It's almost as if you've forgotten all the other military activities Obama got the US involved in. He was a war monger.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Obama sent a small group of soldiers to deal with terrorism and war lords, as have the French.
It is fashionable and cliché among some to somehow fit in an Obama bashing in any discussions on any topic. Hannity, Carlson, et al.
Obama did waffle on Syria.
Iran actively tries to destabilize Bahrain. It is Medieval religious geopolitics with modern weapons.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/middleeast/15bahrain.html
MANAMA, Bahrain — Saudi Arabia’s military rolled into Bahrain on Monday, threatening to escalate a local political conflict into a regional showdown with Iran.
Saudi Arabia has been watching uneasily as Bahrain’s Shiite majority has staged weeks of protests against a Sunni monarchy, fearing that if the protesters prevailed, Iran, Saudi Arabia’s bitter regional rival, could expand its influence and inspire unrest elsewhere.
The Saudi decision to send in troops could further inflame the conflict and transform this teardrop of a nation in the Persian Gulf into the Middle East’s next proxy battlefield between regional and global powers.
It is fashionable and cliché among some to somehow fit in an Obama bashing in any discussions on any topic. Hannity, Carlson, et al.
Obama did waffle on Syria.
Iran actively tries to destabilize Bahrain. It is Medieval religious geopolitics with modern weapons.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/middleeast/15bahrain.html
MANAMA, Bahrain — Saudi Arabia’s military rolled into Bahrain on Monday, threatening to escalate a local political conflict into a regional showdown with Iran.
Saudi Arabia has been watching uneasily as Bahrain’s Shiite majority has staged weeks of protests against a Sunni monarchy, fearing that if the protesters prevailed, Iran, Saudi Arabia’s bitter regional rival, could expand its influence and inspire unrest elsewhere.
The Saudi decision to send in troops could further inflame the conflict and transform this teardrop of a nation in the Persian Gulf into the Middle East’s next proxy battlefield between regional and global powers.