Lol. Didn’t say you were them. Said you were using the same excuse as them. But nice deflection from you and your choice of behaviors. Your call if you want to keep using excuses to be rude.
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- Thread starter 1ICrying
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So now address the rest. Or do you like avoiding the real questions and just answering deliberate mis-readings?
Though to answer your post, yes, I do think you have described your god as weak and not omnipotent.
Learner
Veteran Member
Not all your wishes can come true.
Seriously, the spreading of "the word" is very easy, listening is very hard. Back then (in the OT) even when the Israelites saw what God did and could do, they still turned their backs. When Jesus came,they saw and they gasped but they wanted to kill HIM over their traditions and comfortable way of life so to speak. Alas we are seemingly by ourselves.
Those that want to be with God will act accordingly by choice if they believe by faith, in this world, and those that don't want to be in the new world is fine too.
Don't worry about those who have not had the word yet and pass away. They will be judged fairly e.g. by what's in their hearts and what they've done imo, because that is the atribute of a Righteous God.
And so...God of the bible would be weaker than who if HE is the ultimate Creator? God regrets making man but HE hasn't failed any tests of some god academy or mans knowledge of how a God should be especially since the laws are ULTIMATELY made by HIM. A flawed notion to the theology.
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Learner
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Keith&Co.
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how?That is very fair, thanks 1IC, if you don't mind I will use this.
Seriously, how can you use this? In what way? If the Bible says 'do not be perverse' and the answer to 'what is perverse?' includes: "3The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him"
So, if nothing helps you decide what is or isn't perverse, because it's okay if someone masturbates and it's also okay if someone eschews masturbation, as long as God accepts them, then how do you decide what you can or cannot do?
Learner
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So I can show a little more humility and compassion to others, my friend.
Keith&Co.
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Yeah, but that still doesn't answer the question about whether or not your base desires are perverse.
Sure, maybe you can't judge Zeus when HE says 'I'm gonna stick my dick in it' but this was offered as an answer to how we tell what 'perverse' actually is.
So how can you use that answer 1eye gave to that question?
Atheos
Veteran Member
I have a good friend (Brandon) who is a homosexual male and enjoys a healthy and fulfilling relationship with his husband. Many christians believe their relationship to be perverse, but...
Sounds like as long as Brandon and his husband do not see anything unclean in their marriage or relationship there's nothing perverse about it. It's only wrong if one of the christians who thinks it's wrong does it.
Does that about sum it up?
1ICrying said:
Sounds like as long as Brandon and his husband do not see anything unclean in their marriage or relationship there's nothing perverse about it. It's only wrong if one of the christians who thinks it's wrong does it.
Does that about sum it up?
Wut.Not all your wishes can come true.
THEN FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HUMANE, WHY DO YOU CAUSE PEOPLE TO NOT BE JUDGED BY THEIR GOOD HEARTS WHEN YOU RECKLESSLY INFECT THEM WITH THE WORD THAT IF THEY DON’T BELIEVE YOU THEY ARE NOW BOUND FOR HELL?
Learner
Veteran Member
Wut.Not all your wishes can come true.
I jest. You mentioned before about avoiding to answer questions.
If they hear the word and don't believe then the word DID reach them anyway? I was talking of those who have never heard. Besides its a case by case basis. Many people who aren't convinced are considered lost sheep. If you don't believe then there's nothing to worry about.
Atheos
Veteran Member
Learner, this is inconsistent with the words of Jesus. Assuming, of course, that one believes there was a Jesus and that the commonly accepted "gospel" writers accurately recorded things he said.
Learner
Veteran Member
Non-believers can still be converted as I said its a case-by-case thing. You probably mean when I said " If you don't believe then there's nothing to worry about". I wasn't clear here, I meant in context that to the non-believer - there is no hell, therefore to them, it isn't a threat when someone preaches.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
For me religion is not an emotional threat. For me religion is all in the head of the believer.
The threat religion poses to us atheist and freethinkers is what it has always been.
The curtailment of our freedoms based on a religious interpretations with the political power to impose beliefs and interpretations on us.
It is the history of region from the ancient Hebrews to the Egyptians, Persians, Romans. Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and Christians.
The first amendment specifies religious freedom. freedom to practice rituals and express beliefs. Along with that there are constructional prohibitions against govt enacting laws supporting religious practices and against any religious test for office.
The founders wanted freedom of religion. They also understood the historical abuses of power of Christianity. Jefferson for one had no liking for the RCCC papal power. There was also the British Anglican church. A state religion.
The limits on religion at the time wirer intended to protect minority Christians from majority Christians. Colonial Christianity was not very tolerant. There were no Muslims or atheists to deal with, it was Christian against Christian. The Pilgrims were fleeing Christians.
All have suppressed differing views at different times.
The threat religion poses to us atheist and freethinkers is what it has always been.
The curtailment of our freedoms based on a religious interpretations with the political power to impose beliefs and interpretations on us.
It is the history of region from the ancient Hebrews to the Egyptians, Persians, Romans. Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and Christians.
The first amendment specifies religious freedom. freedom to practice rituals and express beliefs. Along with that there are constructional prohibitions against govt enacting laws supporting religious practices and against any religious test for office.
The founders wanted freedom of religion. They also understood the historical abuses of power of Christianity. Jefferson for one had no liking for the RCCC papal power. There was also the British Anglican church. A state religion.
The limits on religion at the time wirer intended to protect minority Christians from majority Christians. Colonial Christianity was not very tolerant. There were no Muslims or atheists to deal with, it was Christian against Christian. The Pilgrims were fleeing Christians.
All have suppressed differing views at different times.
Use away - it's the Bible
how?That is very fair, thanks 1IC, if you don't mind I will use this.
Seriously, how can you use this? In what way? If the Bible says 'do not be perverse' and the answer to 'what is perverse?' includes: "3The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him"
So, if nothing helps you decide what is or isn't perverse, because it's okay if someone masturbates and it's also okay if someone eschews masturbation, as long as God accepts them, then how do you decide what you can or cannot do?
Good question Keith&Co.
I think the answer to that is largely summed up by the notion of treat your neighbour like yourself, and do not do to your neighbour what you would not want done to yourself.
This would encompass all those noble pursuits such as Humility, compassion, love, truth, honesty - all postive traits. And under love, we need to remember to love ourselves, just as we should love our neighbours. And to love ourselves means we need to try to be healthy in body, mind and spirit, so not addicted to anything, but keeping are desires under control.
So I believe that the lesson is that moderate doses of sex, drugs, rock n roll, and what have you, as long as you are not hurting yourself or others*, is cool with God.
He's not that bad. He loves us. More than we love ourselves.
1I
*with the exception of consensual bdsm
I believe it does sum it up.
The Christians who believe their relationship to be perverse, by judging, have cast that judgement on themselves. They have taken the Law and drawn a circle around themselves - not the people they are judging.
Does a fellow human being know better than you do what is (in the privacy of your own home/life) perverse? Would you want someone trying to control your life based on their fears/insecurities/beliefs? Would you like a fellow human being to decide what you can and cannot do? To take away your freedom to choose?
No. So when we look at where that falls under the 'do unto others as you would do unto yourself', judging and controlling others does not fit. Are Brandon and his partner hurting themselves or others? No. Is it our business. No. Hopefully they are in love and loving one another to a high degree.
Whatever you do - do it for God. Do it for love. The Bible says, God is love.
Peace
The Bible says to love ourselves, and to love others.
So that means, once you are done loving yourself (masturbating, getting high or having sex, gay or otherwise), we will then turn our attention out to others - and to love them as well.
In some cases that may include having sex with them : )
However, after the sex is all accomplished, we are to go and help the poor, visit the sick, feed the hungry, and do good for others. Those rewards may not be physical for us, but they will certainly be spiritual, and of great reward to all.
I think God likes us to be happily balanced. And didn't Buddha say good things about moderation....
That's all folks
not forever Keith&Co, don't worry.
Ill be back
1IC
So that means, once you are done loving yourself (masturbating, getting high or having sex, gay or otherwise), we will then turn our attention out to others - and to love them as well.
In some cases that may include having sex with them : )
However, after the sex is all accomplished, we are to go and help the poor, visit the sick, feed the hungry, and do good for others. Those rewards may not be physical for us, but they will certainly be spiritual, and of great reward to all.
I think God likes us to be happily balanced. And didn't Buddha say good things about moderation....
That's all folks
not forever Keith&Co, don't worry.
Ill be back
1IC
southernhybrid
Contributor
Do you realize that the "golden rule" is found in most or possible all world religions, as well as many secular philosophies? It's probably a human universal. You don't have to be a Christian to realize that we should treat other people in the same way that we like to be treated. And, I agree that doing good works is it's own reward. I would probably use the word "emotional" instead of spiritual, but semantics aren't that important to me in most cases. If you need Christianity to be a better person and if you want to look at the rewards that you receive when you help a disabled or poor friend, give money to a charity, etc., as a spiritual reward, that's cool with me too. The word spiritual has many different meanings to people.
I would only hope that you would come to realize that I can find those same rewards without religion. Let each one of us be respectful of the path that others find that help them be a better person. A truly moral person doesn't judge those with different beliefs. That's my belief.
It's good to have friends who are of different religions, races, cultures, ages, economic situations, etc. It helps us be more understanding, more tolerant and more appreciative of our differences. Giving is its own reward!
Keith&Co.
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....just no specifics.
So, still, the question 'what is perverse' is not answered.
If my neighbor is a misogynist, he might judge handholding an offensive public display of affection. And this is not hyperbole, there aeee many incels who rage sst any sight of affection.
But if a young member of the faith begins to feel an attraction to something, an act, a gender, a person, a toy, something none of his peers ever mention, how can he find out if it is perverse?
This approach of yours won't help, he has to either mention it to peers or parents, who might judge him harshly, or seek like-minded people who are going to be welcomjng, but a tiny bit biased shen they say it's not perverse.
But ultimately, i cannot understand why a god would judge us on desires that are out of our control....