We are NOT a nation of immigrants

[AdamWho]

We hear the phrase "We are a nation of immigrants", constantly and it is false.

Currently about 13% of the population is foreign born and can rightfully be called 'immigrant' see data from Brookings

Since this number is about the same as the AA population in the US, it makes about as much sense to say "We are a nation of immigrants" as it would be to say "We are a nation of blacks".

What we are is a nation of citizens.

If you claim it means "we are descended from immigrants", that is an empty platitude which can apply to all persons at all times.


You hear this rhetoric in nearly all political discourse even on the right, which is supposed to be super 'natavist'. Why is it so antithetical to state "we are NOT a nation of immigrants"?

 

[Trausti]

We hear the phrase "We are a nation of immigrants", constantly and it is false.

Currently about 13% of the population is foreign born and can rightfully be called 'immigrant' see data from Brookings

Since this number is about the same as the AA population in the US, it makes about as much sense to say "We are a nation of immigrants" as it would be to say "We are a nation of blacks".

What we are is a nation of citizens.

If you claim it means "we are descended from immigrants", that is an empty platitude which can apply to all persons at all times.


You hear this rhetoric in nearly all political discourse even on the right, which is supposed to be super 'natavist'. Why is it so antithetical to state "we are NOT a nation of immigrants"?

Well, the US was a melting pot of different, mainly European, peoples. It's okay if there is assimilation. It'll go to shit if you push identity politics.

 

[Speakpigeon]

We hear the phrase "We are a nation of immigrants", constantly and it is false.

Currently about 13% of the population is foreign born and can rightfully be called 'immigrant' see data from Brookings

Since this number is about the same as the AA population in the US, it makes about as much sense to say "We are a nation of immigrants" as it would be to say "We are a nation of blacks".

What we are is a nation of citizens.

If you claim it means "we are descended from immigrants", that is an empty platitude which can apply to all persons at all times.


You hear this rhetoric in nearly all political discourse even on the right, which is supposed to be super 'natavist'. Why is it so antithetical to state "we are NOT a nation of immigrants"?

The expression really means that the vast majority of the current U.S. population descended from relatively rescent immigration, which is both true and not trivial at all. And key constituencies issued from very rescent immigration indeed. You're not going to impress of Jew by telling him that his ancestor's immigrated to Israel from Egypt at the time of the pharaohs. But most Americans know they come from rescent immigration. For most, their fathers, grandfathers, or great-grandfathers had come from abroad.
EB

 

[fromderinside]

We hear the phrase "We are a nation of immigrants", constantly and it is false.

Currently about 13% of the population is foreign born and can rightfully be called 'immigrant' see data from Brookings

Since this number is about the same as the AA population in the US, it makes about as much sense to say "We are a nation of immigrants" as it would be to say "We are a nation of blacks".

What we are is a nation of citizens.

If you claim it means "we are descended from immigrants", that is an empty platitude which can apply to all persons at all times.


You hear this rhetoric in nearly all political discourse even on the right, which is supposed to be super 'natavist'. Why is it so antithetical to state "we are NOT a nation of immigrants"?

Your assertion false. Our nation is identified by the many ethnic waves of immigration since Plymouth. Streets of NY reflects the immigrant scene around the time of the Civil war, a wave of forced immigration, depicting tensions between two recent immigration waves, Irish and Italian, which was followed by northern European, Chinese, Hispanic, SE Asian, and central american waves which leads up to the current Chinese, Soviet Union, Iranian, and ME waves ongoing.

 

[Tristan Scott]

If you claim it means "we are descended from immigrants", that is an empty platitude which can apply to all persons at all times.

You can call it that if you wish, however from my perspective the term refers to a book written by JFK: A Nation of Immigrants. In the book he explores the history of immigration to this country and the reasons people have immigrated here. He also explores the xenophobia that has resulted. And yeah, he starts right of in the beginning pointing out that, with the exception of Native Americans, we are all either immigrants or descendants of immigrants. He also points out that it is difficult to consider African Americans immigrants since they did not actually migrate here, they were forced and coerced into coming and sold into slavery.

But the relevance of the term, is to counter xenophobic responses to immigrants. When immigrants first come here they are assimilating, a difficult process made even more difficult by the fact that they are looked down upon by those that need to be reminded that all of our ancestors were at one time also immigrants.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

We hear the phrase "We are a nation of immigrants", constantly and it is false.

Currently about 13% of the population is foreign born and can rightfully be called 'immigrant' see data from Brookings

Most of the US Somali population are not immigrants either then, nor the Hispanic population.

Not an immigrant:

 

[Malintent]

We're a melting pot... right. OK.

At what point does a pot of boiling water with some random stuff thrown in, become soup?

Is it fair to say we are "a country of immigrants" when we (America) has a distinct culture from any one of the 'motherlands' our citizens are from?

Is the term "cultural appropriation" relevant to this discussion, as we try to figure out at what point America's culture has become distinct? Is use of the term a fight to maintain 'immigrant status"?

How far does ancestry go insofar as to call us all immigrants? Are we just as much a "Nation of Apes"? We all descended from Apes... we are all Africans... so we are all African Americans, afterall.

At some point we have to accept we are distinct. It seems to me there is an agenda associated with proposing we are all immigrants. Not to claim I am somehow 'better' or 'more American" than anyone else.. but MY ancestors fought in the Civil War.. So, am I one of those 'immigrants' too? My more distant ancestors were not Native Americans. No one was... they came from Africa too.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

My ancestors came here in 1604. They also came here in 1920. They fought in every war 'cept the Spanish American one.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

My ancestors came here in 1604. They also came here in 1920. They fought in every war 'cept the Spanish American one.

My ancestors came here in the early 1900s. The only war they fought in was WWII where my grandfather's unit captured an Italian whore house and ... fortified their position.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

We escaped from the English fort in 1755 and fought a rear guard action in Nova Scotia living on nothing but moose poop.... or so the legend goes.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

We escaped from the English fort in 1755 and fought a rear guard action in Nova Scotia living on nothing but moose poop.... or so the legend goes.

Luxury. MY ancestors escaped from an Iroquois raiding party in 1643 and were forced to eat their own musket bullets just to have enough iron in their diets to be able to continue moving.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

We escaped from the English fort in 1755 and fought a rear guard action in Nova Scotia living on nothing but moose poop.... or so the legend goes.

Luxury. MY ancestors escaped from an Iroquois raiding party in 1643 and were forced to eat their own musket bullets just to have enough iron in their diets to be able to continue moving.

 

[AdamWho]

From what I am reading, nobody here is an immigrant but rather just likes calling themselves one....

I am not an immigrant nor is anybody in my family.

Why is it that 87% of people in the US are native born and still cling to this mythos that they are immigrants?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

From what I am reading, nobody here is an immigrant but rather just likes calling themselves one....

I am not an immigrant nor is anybody in my family.

Why is it that 87% of people in the US are native born and still cling to this mythos that they are immigrants?

Is this seriously some kind of complex concept which you have difficulty understanding? It's about as straightforward a point as can be made. Our ancestors immigrated over to the Americas in an attempt to build a better life for themselves (or to build a better life for the slave holders who bought them, as the case may be) and the current generation of immigrants (current can refer to any period in the past couple hundred years) are doing the exact same thing. It's a response to anti-immigration rhetoric that immigration is a net negative to the nation and needs to be curtailed. It's an attempt to reframe the argument by noting that there isn't a difference between those born here and those moving here aside which generation of their family it was that did the moving here so there shouldn't be any wedges put between the two groups.

 

[Ford]

If you claim it means "we are descended from immigrants", that is an empty platitude which can apply to all persons at all times.

I suppose you could stretch it and claim that the folks who walked across the land bridge that is now submerged under the Bering Sea were immigrants as well! Anyone whose ancestors didn't evolve on this continent are immigrants!

Seriously, though, it is far from an empty platitude. It is a fact. Except for Native Americans, everyone here (in the US and Canada) is descended from someone who most likely arrived on a boat. Some have ancestors that arrived centuries ago, some are descended from people who arrived more recently, and some - like me - are a mixed bag. Part of my family has been living here since the 17th Century. Part arrived less than a 100 years ago. I don't consider myself an immigrant, but I can factually claim that my great grandparents arrived here on a boat and didn't speak the language. They were immigrants.

That's not platitude, that's history. Our history is filled with waves of immigrants and to deny that or whitewash it destroys our history.

Why is it so antithetical to state "we are NOT a nation of immigrants"?

Because it flies in the face of reality. It is about lunchtime here, and today I brought lunch. Lasagna. A dish brought over by Italian immigrants. If I decide to go out for lunch tomorrow, I can go to the Mexican place next door (immigrants), the Irish pub a block over (immigrants), the Thai place down the street (immigrants), or get in the car and head down to the Chinese place named Sing Hi because the guy who made the sign on the building couldn't translate the owner's pronunciation of Shanghai.

All this stuff is available because of immigrants, and it is all now part of our collective culture. Saying "we're NOT a nation of immigrants" says to those people who brought their food and culture over here "hey, your heritage is not important. The risks your parents/grandparents/great grandparents took to get here and establish themselves are not important, and why don't you shut up about it and just be Americans, dammit!"

 

[Bomb#20]

We escaped from the English fort in 1755 and fought a rear guard action in Nova Scotia living on nothing but moose poop.... or so the legend goes.

Luxury. MY ancestors escaped from an Iroquois raiding party in 1643 and were forced to eat their own musket bullets just to have enough iron in their diets to be able to continue moving.

You had iron musket balls to eat? You were lucky. Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our dad would slice us in two with a bread knife. But you try and tell the young people today that, and they won't believe you.

 

[TV and credit cards]

It's a good thing to tell school children as it helps to keep mom and dad's bigotry at bay.

 

[Deepak]

What's the deal with parking on driveways and driving on parkways?

You park in driveways folks, you park in them...

 

[bilby]

From what I am reading, nobody here is an immigrant but rather just likes calling themselves one....

I am not an immigrant nor is anybody in my family.

Why is it that 87% of people in the US are native born and still cling to this mythos that they are immigrants?

I am an immigrant; I moved to Australia from the UK at the age of 25.

Of course, the super-strict definition of 'immigrant' that you are using is not the only valid definition. Many people quite reasonably consider immigrant status to pass down at least three or four generations - as a crude rule of thumb, if you met a living ancestor who was born in another country, you can reasonably claim to be an immigrant. And as an even cruder rule of thumb, you are an immigrant if you have a recent ancestor who was born in another country.

Of course, that second rule depends on your definition of 'recent'. Having grown up in a house that was as old as my current home country, I can see some merit in both the US idea - that 'recent' means in the last century or so; and the UK idea that 'recent' means in the last millennium or so.

It is said that the major difference between the English and the Americans is that an Englishman believes that 200 miles is a long way, and an American believes that 200 years is a long time. Certainly there are many English people who consider anyone living in England today to be an immigrant if their family were not recorded in the Doomsday Book, in 1086. In English Law, a family whose status has not changed since the 6th of July 1189 has been English since time immemorial, and there are strong justifications for considering all others (and that's most modern English people) as immigrants, or at least of immigrant stock.

You pays your money, and you takes your choice. Certainly the question is FAR from as clear-cut as you are implying; and it is obvious that those who describe America, Australia, or even the United Kingdom as 'nations of immigrants' are not seeking to use the strictest possible definition of the word 'immigrant'. If you can go back as little as a few hundred years and not find a single ancestor in the territory occupied by your nation today, then it is certainly reasonable to say 'I am an immigrant'. Even if you have lived in the same country since the day you were born.

 

[beero1000]

I guess we should stop calling America a 'melting pot' too. It's clearly not a pot.