We may not die

[LordKiran]

A couple of notes:

1. An increase in life expectancy without an increase in quality of life might be a bad thing.
2. Death can still occur even if life expectancy increases faster than time. In fact, death can still be a certainty.

Look at Kurzweil's work--he's predicting uploading the mind at 2040. While I think he's being overly optimistic on some of the technology he's also aiming too low--he's looking at uploading to desktop computers but we don't need to limit it thus. We can use far beefier computers, if Moore's law holds we will have them in the early 30s. (And note that the very nature of the mind is highly parallel. Massive processor arrays are a viable answer, we don't need blazing speed in a single processor.) (Note that he's looking at simulation which doesn't require understanding. If we can extract the information we can do it.)

If the quality of life is bad, upload when it becomes an option. Also, upload makes it much less likely you'll die and it makes it much easier to back up your mind in case you do.

This doesn't really address the fundemental concept of death as a metaphysical transition of consciousness from your mortal coil into the unknown (Most likely nonexistence.)

You have no reason to believe that which is uploaded will be you, rather than a simulation with all your memories and personality traits. So really it's still death by another name, with all the uncertainty and fear that comes with it. Unless you can find a way to maintain the human consciousness within it's original shell, we're all doomed to death no matter what science brings.

 

[LordKiran]

There must be something wrong when a person has to say this: I am sorry but I want medical advancements to accelerate so that people can live longer and be healthier.

Does this really seem like a bad thing?

Yes there are an infinite number of possible doom and gloom scenarios, but there are probably infinite number of advantageous scenarios. Sometimes we have to do what is obviously needed with a level of uncertain implications, or we will never get anything accomplished.

Does it matter?

Even if by some miracle of technology you manage to stave off your own demise and live long into the future the person you are will eventually die, long before the implosion of our sun or the heat death of the universe, after existing for so many eons of time, you will become numb to the world.
With every year, your perception of time gradually speeds up, and after long enough, will eventually speed up to the point of knocking yourself out of perceivable reality as you know it today. The world will become an alien place to you watching entire generations become born and then die, each more alien than the last. Eventually viewing all life and existence with the same dispassion and uncaring indifference of a sentient machine. At that point would you even be alive?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes. Yes, you would.

 

[Jarhyn]

Death is nature's gentle rape. Life is long and our brains are evolved such that they get burned out over time in fending off the boredom which robs us of the enjoyment of our own suffering.

This is not something I would choose to have happen. It is a violation of who I am, and it is in no way acceptable to me. It is a process which has dragged trillions into playing along with this natural rape. It is Stockholm syndrome on the most massive of scales, and the tacit acceptance of it is the continued belief that there is somehow a rape that is OK. But it hasn't been ok, continues to be not-ok, and will in fact NEVER be ok. I choose to live no matter what emotions life throws my way and will roll about in all the shame and pain and misery just as much as I do the joys, happiness, and love.

I pity anyone who has been so abused by life that they have chosen to give up, be broken, and submit.

 

[rousseau]

The only thing more terrifying than death: living forever.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

The only thing more terrifying than death: living forever.

Well, that's a glass half empty sentiment. No matter how bad things get over the eons, you know that you're guaranteed to experience greater joy and happiness in your future than you've ever experienced before. There's no need to whine about the countless millennia of unthinkable despair and agony when there's that to look forward to.

 

[rousseau]

The only thing more terrifying than death: living forever.

Well, that's a glass half empty sentiment. No matter how bad things get over the eons, you know that you're guaranteed to experience greater joy and happiness in your future than you've ever experienced before. There's no need to whine about the countless millennia of unthinkable despair and agony when there's that to look forward to.

The worst part, to me, is that people stop wanting to have sex with you by the time you're in your fifties. So that leaves you.. a lot of time to not get laid.

 

[LordKiran]

Well, that's a glass half empty sentiment. No matter how bad things get over the eons, you know that you're guaranteed to experience greater joy and happiness in your future than you've ever experienced before. There's no need to whine about the countless millennia of unthinkable despair and agony when there's that to look forward to.

The worst part, to me, is that people stop wanting to have sex with you by the time you're in your fifties. So that leaves you.. a lot of time to not get laid.

That's not even a problem. I await the day my sex drive dies, that will leave me a lot more time to focus on more productive endeavors.

 

[jonatha]

That's not even a problem. I await the day my sex drive dies, that will leave me a lot more time to focus on more productive endeavors.

If you'd like to get rid of it sooner, I'll send you my address and you can mail it to my wife...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

There must be something wrong when a person has to say this: I am sorry but I want medical advancements to accelerate so that people can live longer and be healthier.

Does this really seem like a bad thing?

Yes there are an infinite number of possible doom and gloom scenarios, but there are probably infinite number of advantageous scenarios. Sometimes we have to do what is obviously needed with a level of uncertain implications, or we will never get anything accomplished.

Does it matter?

Even if by some miracle of technology you manage to stave off your own demise and live long into the future the person you are will eventually die, long before the implosion of our sun or the heat death of the universe, after existing for so many eons of time, you will become numb to the world.
With every year, your perception of time gradually speeds up, and after long enough, will eventually speed up to the point of knocking yourself out of perceivable reality as you know it today. The world will become an alien place to you watching entire generations become born and then die, each more alien than the last. Eventually viewing all life and existence with the same dispassion and uncaring indifference of a sentient machine. At that point would you even be alive?

That's some good prose.

We've all been dead before. Maybe that's what it was like.

 

[southernhybrid]

I could never understand the fascination with down loading your mind. My mind controls the functions of my body and my mind is dependent on the physical structures of my brain. I have no problem with dying. I've seen a lot of people die. It's usually a relief at the end of a long life. We should just appreciate that we have had the chance to live. Think of all the sperm that never reach the egg, or all the eggs that are disposed of each month without ever having the chance to be fertilized. Then, be thankful that you were the rare result of an egg and sperm that met and grew into a human. I feel confident that we will all die and it's really nothing to fear. If you're lucky enough to have a peaceful death, it can be a much more gentle experience than birth. Stop fixating on the impossible and get out and enjoy what you have now.

 

[DBT]

Death is a relief at the end of a long life of suffering, old age decline and disease, or even a short life that's full of suffering, but is it necessarily the case that death would be seen to be a relief if you could retain your youth, health and vitality indefinitely?

 

[southernhybrid]

Death is a relief at the end of a long life of suffering, old age decline and disease, or even a short life that's full of suffering, but is it necessarily the case that death would be seen to be a relief if you could retain your youth, health and vitality indefinitely?

I don't know, but since that's not going to be an option, I can't take the idea too seriously. But if it were an option, life would probably get boring after awhile. We have a life cycle. Living indefinitely would cause an awful lot of changes to the life cycle and with unlimited lives, how would we manage to provide enough resources for a population that grows at an enormous rate? We go through various stages in life. I can't fathom how that would happen if life had no concrete ending. My 50s and 60s have been the best decades of my life so far. Why would I want to go back to my youth? It's really hard to wrap my head around living indefinitely. I'm not sure it would be the Utopian existence some imagine. I guess we will never know.


Research has pretty much affirmed that human life can't exist beyond a maximum of 115 years. And, very few manage to even come close to that age. Better we just accept reality and stop making fanciful dreams that will never become a reality. At least that's how I see it.

 

[southernhybrid]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/12/01/going-die-thats-okay/

If you want to be happy, you must accept that you will die. And so will your loved ones. Yes, you and those you love will die. You each will end interminably and eventually be forgotten, and happiness in life demands realizing this fact.Realizing that you will die will not immediately make you happy. Quite the contrary. To find happiness in the shadow of death requires reckoning with it bravely and fiercely until the full light of life shines through. This light remains obscured until you know what death means for your life and the lives of those you love.
Everything that matters becomes much more clear once you apprehend the facts of mortality. Truly knowing that you are going to die teaches what may be life’s most valuable lessons: life is short, some misery is guaranteed, and yet happiness, contentment, and fulfillment are possible. The clear conclusion that follows is that seizing happiness — and helping others to do so too — while we have the chance may be the only thing that makes sense to do with our time. So, the first thing to do is acknowledge is that you are going to die.

I read this book review today and thought if fit in with this thread. It pretty much sums up most of my own feelings on death.