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What is logic?

Speakpigeon

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Rationality (i.e. facts + logic), Scepticism (not just about God but also everything beyond my subjective experience)
Please give a short description of whatever it is that you think deserves to be called logic.
EB
 
Please give a short description of whatever it is that you think deserves to be called logic.
EB
"Garbage out, garbage in."

I.e., logic is any reasoning procedure that can guarantee that whenever you get the wrong output from it, it's because you put the wrong input into it.
 
Please give a short description of whatever it is that you think deserves to be called logic.
EB
A set, V, of values and a set, O, of operators that each defines a rule to map a collection of operands from V to a single valued result in V
 
The abstract epistemic concept/law of necessary inference.
 
Logic is a system of thinking, in which a bunch of statements are taken as starting points, which interact with one another using IF...THEN...AND...OR...NOT. . .etc. and from which an inescapable conclusion results. Logic does not necessarily produce truth, only a conclusion which fits the bunch of statements given.
 
It is about ideas and their progression.

Do they progress in a manner that can be defended?
 
Please give a short description of whatever it is that you think deserves to be called logic.
EB

The various paths a frog can take to traverse a pond peppered with lillypads.
Please explain.

I can see how one would go about making logical assertions about possible paths but how is that definitional of logic? If that is, anything is, it seems to me, since I can see how I could make logical assertions about just any situation.
EB
 
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Please give a short description of whatever it is that you think deserves to be called logic.
EB
A set, V, of values and a set, O, of operators that each defines a rule to map a collection of operands from V to a single valued result in V
Sounds like an algreba to me, not anything particular about logic. How is that specifically about logic?
EB
 
The abstract epistemic concept/law of necessary inference.
And do you see modern logic as an example or application of that idea or are you wedded to Aristotelian logc?

Specifically, the notion of necessity is a modal one which as such is studiously ignored in the framework of modern logic, whereas it is essential to Aristotelian logic.
EB
 
Logic is a system of thinking, in which a bunch of statements are taken as starting points, which interact with one another using IF...THEN...AND...OR...NOT. . .etc. and from which an inescapable conclusion results. Logic does not necessarily produce truth, only a conclusion which fits the bunch of statements given.
If it's a system of thinking, presumably logic as such is to be found somehow in minds or in brains. Or not?

Or, how would one know that he did identify an inescapable conclusion, as opposed to the appearance of it?
EB
 
It is about ideas and their progression.

Do they progress in a manner that can be defended?
So if I can defend my thinking it's logical? Or can you spell out criteria for deciding that a defense is successful or appropriate?
EB
 
Please give a short description of whatever it is that you think deserves to be called logic.
EB
"Garbage out, garbage in."

I.e., logic is any reasoning procedure that can guarantee that whenever you get the wrong output from it, it's because you put the wrong input into it.
So any procedure that produces such a result is good enough to be called logic?

And once you have settled on a particular procedure, how can you tell that it is correct? You can't possibly test all logical formulae to check that it works fine.

Also, this seems to suggest that (good) reasoning can't be logical unless you reason following such a procedure.

Or is it good enough if I give the correct answer, i.e. my procedure in this case would be just to trust the output of my brain?
EB
 
I would be careful not to mischaracterize an asserted argumentative conclusion as illogical just because the underlying reasoning may be flawed. Underlying logic is methodological reasoning. A reason with no rhyme may be illogical, but if there is a rhyme with your reason, then astray as we might go, it is not without some semblance of logical guidance.

We wouldn't say Spock is being illogical merely because he was mistaken. That his approach is grounded in having a method to his reasoning is mostly sufficient to demonstrate logical thinking. ("Method" might need a qualifier.)

ETA "systematic"
 
"Garbage out, garbage in."

I.e., logic is any reasoning procedure that can guarantee that whenever you get the wrong output from it, it's because you put the wrong input into it.
So any procedure that produces such a result is good enough to be called logic?
Do you have in mind any particular counterexample? I suppose a procedure that says nothing but "One is less than two.", regardless of what you put in, can make that guarantee. But I don't think it really counts as a reasoning procedure. For something to be a reasoning procedure there needs to be a causal connection between the input and the output.

And once you have settled on a particular procedure, how can you tell that it is correct? You can't possibly test all logical formulae to check that it works fine.
Oh, well, defining logic is a lot easier than explaining how to recognize it. In the immortal words of Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens, "That's a hard question. I don't answer hard questions." ;)

That said, the basic approach logicians have taken for millennia is "divide and conquer". The theory is that an N-step reasoning procedure must satisfy the "garbage out garbage in" criterion, provided the (N-1)-step procedure it started with satisfies it, and the final step also satisfies it. There's no way for wrongness to get in except at the beginning, or in the first (N-1) steps, or in the final step. So if you can break down all the reasoning methods used in the procedure into a small number of elementary operations, you only need to test those elementary operations.

Also, this seems to suggest that (good) reasoning can't be logical unless you reason following such a procedure.
This is more a terminological issue. People use many reasoning procedures that usually work. Do we want to call them "logic", or do we want to give them other names such as "inductive reasoning" or "probabilistic reasoning"? If you prefer, we can call what I defined "deductive logic" and consider "logic" to be a broader category.

But there are nasty paradoxes lurking in non-deductive "logic". Consider the inductive reasoning principle, "Each time we see an instance satisfying a hypothesis, it helps confirm the hypothesis." See a six-foot man, it makes it more likely that all men are shorter than 100 feet. See an eight-foot man, that too makes it more likely that all men are shorter than 100 feet. But see a 99-foot man, that makes it less likely that all men are shorter than 100 feet.

Or is it good enough if I give the correct answer, i.e. my procedure in this case would be just to trust the output of my brain?
EB
When your brain gives a wrong answer, is it ever not because you were given incorrect data? For instance, have you ever made an arithmetic error?
 
It is about ideas and their progression.

Do they progress in a manner that can be defended?
So if I can defend my thinking it's logical? Or can you spell out criteria for deciding that a defense is successful or appropriate?
EB

I can't find my keys.

Maybe they are in my pants.

Maybe they vanished into thin air.

How do we defend the latter?
 
Any set of premises that lead to a conclusion that makes me happy.
 
So if I can defend my thinking it's logical? Or can you spell out criteria for deciding that a defense is successful or appropriate?
EB

I can't find my keys.

Maybe they are in my pants.

Maybe they vanished into thin air.

How do we defend the latter?
I don't actually know that keys cannot vanished into thin air therefore, for all I know, I may not be able to find my keys just because they have vanished into thin air.
EB
 
And once you have settled on a particular procedure, how can you tell that it is correct? You can't possibly test all logical formulae to check that it works fine.
Oh, well, defining logic is a lot easier than explaining how to recognize it. In the immortal words of Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens, "That's a hard question. I don't answer hard questions." ;)

That said, the basic approach logicians have taken for millennia is "divide and conquer". The theory is that an N-step reasoning procedure must satisfy the "garbage out garbage in" criterion, provided the (N-1)-step procedure it started with satisfies it, and the final step also satisfies it. There's no way for wrongness to get in except at the beginning, or in the first (N-1) steps, or in the final step. So if you can break down all the reasoning methods used in the procedure into a small number of elementary operations, you only need to test those elementary operations.

Also, this seems to suggest that (good) reasoning can't be logical unless you reason following such a procedure.
This is more a terminological issue.
Isn't it true that people often do get to the correct conclusion without explicitly going through anything like a formal procedure? And if it's the correct answer, isn't it the logical answer, without procedure? If so, why would the notion of procedure be necessary to logic?
EB
 
I would be careful not to mischaracterize an asserted argumentative conclusion as illogical just because the underlying reasoning may be flawed. Underlying logic is methodological reasoning. A reason with no rhyme may be illogical, but if there is a rhyme with your reason, then astray as we might go, it is not without some semblance of logical guidance.

We wouldn't say Spock is being illogical merely because he was mistaken. That his approach is grounded in having a method to his reasoning is mostly sufficient to demonstrate logical thinking. ("Method" might need a qualifier.)

ETA "systematic"
We can say that someone has his own logic so usage seems to support your view here. However, as far as I can tell, this expression is systematically somewhat disparaging. So what you're left with is someone using indeed a method or a system but one that we would characterise as inadequate.

I would also expect any method that's flawed, whatever the reason, to lead inevitably to contradictions. Such a method would therefore be an illogical method. But we would need specific examples to show that's true.
EB
 
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