What should the endgame be with regards to Islam?

[Togo]

By the way, I noticed that you are up to your usual strawmen. Muslims aren't the problem, fundamentalist/militant Islam is the problem, and you know the distinction yet you distort to smear your opponents. You must really view your political opponents as the enemy and sub-human to treat them this way. I notice a similar pattern in how you treat conservatives.

We have posters in a justifying the view that moderate Muslims are rightfully viewed as dangerous because they cannot be easily distinguished from the extremists. So, that ain't no straw man.

We also have people arguing that any form of Islam is corrupting, and thus that even moderate versions are an issue.

 

[fromderinside]

My impression of Islam and Muslims is mostly positive with a hold back on women's and children's rights.

Saw a Rick Steves bit on Western Turkey where he visited the home of the  Mevlevi Order where he said current Muslims mainstream align themselves to their views. This is not an view that focuses on punishment or purity of belief. Rather it is a celebration of God and love.

The Sema represents a mystical journey of man's spiritual ascent through mind and love to the "Perfect". Turning towards the truth, the follower grows through love, deserts his ego, finds the truth, and arrives at the "Perfect". He then returns from this spiritual journey as a man who has reached maturity and a greater perfection, able to love and to be of service to the whole of creation.

So All I'm going to do is remind people of what it means to be a Muslim and work for them, like the Catholics, to come into the modern age with respect to gender.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

By the way, I noticed that you are up to your usual strawmen. Muslims aren't the problem, fundamentalist/militant Islam is the problem, and you know the distinction yet you distort to smear your opponents. You must really view your political opponents as the enemy and sub-human to treat them this way. I notice a similar pattern in how you treat conservatives.

We have posters in a justifying the view that moderate Muslims are rightfully viewed as dangerous because they cannot be easily distinguished from the extremists. So, that ain't no straw man.

[Citation needed]

Some of us have expressed the opinion that people fear the average Muslim because they can't distinguish them from the extremists that are actually dangerous, but that's not the same as saying that the moderates are something to actually be afraid of.

 

[repoman]

Will there be more extremist muslims in a country with a lot of muslims than one with few? Will this difference make up for the loss of extremist Xtians?

Will extremist muslims be better able to get at the levers of power in a country with a higher muslim population?

 

[laughing dog]

We have posters in a justifying the view that moderate Muslims are rightfully viewed as dangerous because they cannot be easily distinguished from the extremists. So, that ain't no straw man.

[Citation needed]

Some of us have expressed the opinion that people fear the average Muslim because they can't distinguish them from the extremists that are actually dangerous, but that's not the same as saying that the moderates are something to actually be afraid of.

Here are some quotes from the Why can't intelligent people distinguish between extremists and everyday Muslims? thread

Maybe because they all operate out of the same cookbook and you can never tell when they will get around to reading passages of the Koran than advocate violence.

Second this. We can't tell them apart very well and we are wired to false positive about threats rather than false negative. It's better to avoid 1000 suspicious patches of grass than not avoid one tiger in the grass.

Moderate Muslims may not be trusted because they are seen, whether rightly or wrongly, as perhaps knowing who the extremists are within their community but don't report it to the authorities, therefore guilt by association. They may also seen as not sufficiently condemning the actions of extremists.

.

 

[arkirk]

A lot of people here have a lot of opinions about Muslims, Islamists, and anyone who prays to Allah, all those opinions negative

So what to do? If Muslims are a problem, what to do about it?

This is not a problem that can be fixed in our lifetimes. The best we can do is gentle, unthreatening advocation of secular humanist concepts. You simply cannot logic or torture or cajole anybody out of their belief system. Things will remain fucked up as long as these belief systems hold sway in this world. Unfortunately it appears to be an addiction. I suspect that if mankind stays around a bit longer, all these crazy monotheistic religions will gradually fade away. Major movements do not work in the matter of religion any more than political movements. They are all flashes in the pan in a history that only gives us a very short window in which to exist.

 

[Clivedurdle]

Isn't teaching reading and writing colonialist, imperialist and atheistic?

Take up the White Man's burden -
And reap his old reward,
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard -
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah slowly !) towards the light:-
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
"Our loved Egyptian night ?"

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_burden.htm

- - - Updated - - -

What does boko haram mean?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

[Citation needed]

Some of us have expressed the opinion that people fear the average Muslim because they can't distinguish them from the extremists that are actually dangerous, but that's not the same as saying that the moderates are something to actually be afraid of.

Here are some quotes from the Why can't intelligent people distinguish between extremists and everyday Muslims? thread

Maybe because they all operate out of the same cookbook and you can never tell when they will get around to reading passages of the Koran than advocate violence.

Second this. We can't tell them apart very well and we are wired to false positive about threats rather than false negative. It's better to avoid 1000 suspicious patches of grass than not avoid one tiger in the grass.

Moderate Muslims may not be trusted because they are seen, whether rightly or wrongly, as perhaps knowing who the extremists are within their community but don't report it to the authorities, therefore guilt by association. They may also seen as not sufficiently condemning the actions of extremists.

.

You're proving my point.

 

[Togo]

Here are some quotes from the Why can't intelligent people distinguish between extremists and everyday Muslims? thread

Maybe because they all operate out of the same cookbook and you can never tell when they will get around to reading passages of the Koran than advocate violence.

Second this. We can't tell them apart very well and we are wired to false positive about threats rather than false negative. It's better to avoid 1000 suspicious patches of grass than not avoid one tiger in the grass.

Moderate Muslims may not be trusted because they are seen, whether rightly or wrongly, as perhaps knowing who the extremists are within their community but don't report it to the authorities, therefore guilt by association. They may also seen as not sufficiently condemning the actions of extremists.

.

You're proving my point.

I don't think so. You're saying that people are not arguing that moderate Muslims are dangerous/violent. The first and third quotes are reasons people have given for regarding moderates as dangerous, and the second is a reason for treating them as dangerous even if they aren't.

 

[laughing dog]

Here are some quotes from the Why can't intelligent people distinguish between extremists and everyday Muslims? thread

Maybe because they all operate out of the same cookbook and you can never tell when they will get around to reading passages of the Koran than advocate violence.

Second this. We can't tell them apart very well and we are wired to false positive about threats rather than false negative. It's better to avoid 1000 suspicious patches of grass than not avoid one tiger in the grass.

Moderate Muslims may not be trusted because they are seen, whether rightly or wrongly, as perhaps knowing who the extremists are within their community but don't report it to the authorities, therefore guilt by association. They may also seen as not sufficiently condemning the actions of extremists.

.

You're proving my point.

As Togo pointed out, you are wrong again.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Stop supporting the radicals just because they are "our radicals". it was an error in the Cold War, and it is even more stupid now.

Neocons like to deny that there is any relationship between the Mujahedeen and Al Qaeda. The US was quite content to support the Syrian rebels, until one of the factions called itself "ISIS" and dared to operate outside of Syria.

The royal family of Saudi Arabia has been made absurdly wealthy because of oil deals. Imagine if the Chinese were to take the trillions of US debt that they own and use it to fund the political activities of the KKK. Flush with that much money they could actually become something, and then people outside the US would wonder what the endgame should be with regards to Americans.