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When America Was 'Great,' Taxes Were High, Unions Were Strong, and Government Was Big

Ok, then explain the Great Depression.

By your statement, simply getting married, having children late, and completing your education will keep you out of poverty, period, no exceptions, which would include economic meltdowns beyond the control of the an average family. ALSO, you made no claims about whether the marriage is a good or bad one, if the children are healthy or diasbled, if the education is marketable.

Nor have you dealt with the societal shifts with regards to marriage and how those shifts are making marriage harder.

Something as complex as family life cannot be simply dropped into a discussion as some overall general cure of the complicated social malady of poverty.

Would you advise someone to start smoking because there are some smokers who live longer than non-smokers and not all smokers get cancer?

No.

And smoking is not poverty. They don't compare. Biology and Socio-Economics are not similar sciences. You do understand the difference between natural and social science, do you not?
 
How many women were in the workplace in the 1950s?

If we took women (traditionally) out of the workplace and put them back in the home, would there be a shortage of labor sufficient enough to drive up wages so that the husband could support a nuclear family on one income?
 
How many women were in the workplace in the 1950s?

If we took women (traditionally) out of the workplace and put them back in the home, would there be a shortage of labor sufficient enough to drive up wages so that the husband could support a nuclear family on one income?

Shhh.jpg
 
You can do a search on divorce and poverty. The keys to staying out of poverty are getting married, having kids late, and staying in school.


Well then let's make marriage mandatory in order to have kids, enforce a waiting period in order to have children, make divorce illegal, and impose severe consequences for anyone who drops out of school.


Freedom! :rolleyes:


Sarcasm aside, you did not support your assertion that making divorce more difficult would alleviate poverty. Furthermore, the policy paper you linked didn't make the case that easy divorce was the cause of poverty.


I can find policy papers that say that but they would be right wing think tanks and hence rejected on here.


If the only support for your assertion is from right wing think tanks, then perhaps you should withdraw your assertion?
 
In 1950, America led the world in GDP per capita.
I stopped right there, cause 1950 is 5 years after the end of WW2 which took place in Europe/Asia and did not take place in US.

Exactly. Those were the good old days because we were simply exporting our shit. Most of the industry in the world other than American had been heavily bombed and was still rebuilding.

Furthermore, it wasn't good days for blacks. Again, the shit they got handed wasn't noted.

We actually have competition in the world these days, there's not much shit-exporting to do.
 
You can do a search on divorce and poverty. The keys to staying out of poverty are getting married, having kids late, and staying in school.

You do realize you are making an absolute statement, don't you? A statement that can be disproven by one example of a family with married parents who had kids late, completed their education and still found themselves in poverty, even if only briefly.

Sure you don't want to rephrase your statement?

Shit still happens but completing your education and having kids late and only in marriage is a very big factor in staying out of poverty.

- - - Updated - - -

How many women were in the workplace in the 1950s?

If we took women (traditionally) out of the workplace and put them back in the home, would there be a shortage of labor sufficient enough to drive up wages so that the husband could support a nuclear family on one income?

No, because we can't export our shit anymore.

Also, the minimum standard of living these days is higher than it was then. You can't get 50's level healthcare. You can't get 50's level safety standards.
 
You do realize you are making an absolute statement, don't you? A statement that can be disproven by one example of a family with married parents who had kids late, completed their education and still found themselves in poverty, even if only briefly.

Sure you don't want to rephrase your statement?

Shit still happens but completing your education and having kids late and only in marriage is a very big factor in staying out of poverty.

- - - Updated - - -

How many women were in the workplace in the 1950s?

If we took women (traditionally) out of the workplace and put them back in the home, would there be a shortage of labor sufficient enough to drive up wages so that the husband could support a nuclear family on one income?

No, because we can't export our shit anymore.

Also, the minimum standard of living these days is higher than it was then. You can't get 50's level healthcare. You can't get 50's level safety standards.

"completing your education and having kids late and only in marriage is a very big factor in staying out of poverty."

AND

"The keys to staying out of poverty are getting married, having kids late, and staying in school."

Are not the same statements. The order and emphasis are different. One is saying that you should stay in school and if you have children, have them late and in a marriage; while the other is saying you should get married, you should have children late, and you should stay in school.

Damn, y'all move the goal posts even when you are trying to agree with and quote from each other!
 
How many women were in the workplace in the 1950s?

If we took women (traditionally) out of the workplace and put them back in the home, would there be a shortage of labor sufficient enough to drive up wages so that the husband could support a nuclear family on one income?


Well there's the rub.

On the one hand, the right wingers want to return - at least socially - to a time when the wife is in the home raising kids and being a homemaker.

Yet on the other hand, they want to drive wages down, which makes it impossible for the wifey to stay at home, bake cakes and make babies.

If wages had kept pace with the cost of living, then a two-income family would be sitting pretty. Perhaps even comfortable enough for one spouse to work part time or even stay home and raise the family. The middle class would have actually expanded. All that extra money would be a big boon to our current consumer-driven economy.


Instead, we've got a double-whammy where the kids are at daycare or at grandma's house while both spouses work themselves to the bone just to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads - something that was possible on just one income 50 years ago.
 
How many women were in the workplace in the 1950s?

If we took women (traditionally) out of the workplace and put them back in the home, would there be a shortage of labor sufficient enough to drive up wages so that the husband could support a nuclear family on one income?

The system was designed around existing supplies of labor.

These so-called labor shortages you imagine are just that, imaginary.

The price of labor is mostly related to the power of labor.

The only thing known to increase the power of labor in general is a union.

Higher paid labor has far more to do with high union membership than imaginary labor shortages.
 
Shit still happens but completing your education and having kids late and only in marriage is a very big factor in staying out of poverty.

- - - Updated - - -

How many women were in the workplace in the 1950s?

If we took women (traditionally) out of the workplace and put them back in the home, would there be a shortage of labor sufficient enough to drive up wages so that the husband could support a nuclear family on one income?

No, because we can't export our shit anymore.

Also, the minimum standard of living these days is higher than it was then. You can't get 50's level healthcare. You can't get 50's level safety standards.

"completing your education and having kids late and only in marriage is a very big factor in staying out of poverty."

AND

"The keys to staying out of poverty are getting married, having kids late, and staying in school."

Are not the same statements. The order and emphasis are different. One is saying that you should stay in school and if you have children, have them late and in a marriage; while the other is saying you should get married, you should have children late, and you should stay in school.

Damn, y'all move the goal posts even when you are trying to agree with and quote from each other!

I don't think either of us attempted to order our lists. The one difference I see is that I don't think marriage is a big factor if you don't have kids, he's listing it anyway.
 
While the relationship is likely more complicated than ideologues of any stripe would want to acknowledge, its seems highly plausible that their are meaningful connections between economic changes from the 1950's in areas like inflation, middle class standard of living, wealth disparity, and poverty levels, due to impacts of females entering the workforce and divorce rates (that related highly to single-parenting, child-care needs, lower quantity and quality of parent-child interactions, etc.).

There was a temporary need for women in the workforce in WWII that subsided afterwards. While some women continued to enter the workforce out of financial necessity, its is highly likely that many others chose to work full time due more to changing cultural attitudes and the very explicit female empowerment movement that encouraged it.
The drastic increase in not only the number of workers, but the combined household incomes and consumer buying power would seem likely have had large economic impact, including inflation of prices and dropping of hourly wages that would then force even women that did not want to into the workforce, and greatly lower the standard of living among single parents whose numbers were increasing due to changing attitudes and laws about divorce.

I am struggling to find good research articles on it, because most google searches return stuff on gender equality in the workplace, which is not the same thing.

Note that this doesn't mean that 2 worker households has to produce these economic problems. Scandanavian countries have 70% working mothers to the US 60%. However, they also have lower divorce rates (fewer single working mothers), and women have the first child nearly 5 years later than the US (far fewer teenage and young adult mothers prior to education and career), plus other differences. But within the context of the US, most women working full time could have been a major factor contributing to the erosion of the middle class.
 
While the relationship is likely more complicated than ideologues of any stripe would want to acknowledge, its seems highly plausible that their are meaningful connections between economic changes from the 1950's in areas like inflation, middle class standard of living, wealth disparity, and poverty levels, due to impacts of females entering the workforce and divorce rates (that related highly to single-parenting, child-care needs, lower quantity and quality of parent-child interactions, etc.).

There was a temporary need for women in the workforce in WWII that subsided afterwards. While some women continued to enter the workforce out of financial necessity, its is highly likely that many others chose to work full time due more to changing cultural attitudes and the very explicit female empowerment movement that encouraged it.
The drastic increase in not only the number of workers, but the combined household incomes and consumer buying power would seem likely have had large economic impact, including inflation of prices and dropping of hourly wages that would then force even women that did not want to into the workforce, and greatly lower the standard of living among single parents whose numbers were increasing due to changing attitudes and laws about divorce.

I am struggling to find good research articles on it, because most google searches return stuff on gender equality in the workplace, which is not the same thing.

Note that this doesn't mean that 2 worker households has to produce these economic problems. Scandanavian countries have 70% working mothers to the US 60%. However, they also have lower divorce rates (fewer single working mothers), and women have the first child nearly 5 years later than the US (far fewer teenage and young adult mothers prior to education and career), plus other differences. But within the context of the US, most women working full time could have been a major factor contributing to the erosion of the middle class.

Is this along the lines of what you are looking for?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/lisaqua...mbers-of-women-in-the-workforce/#21ff8a2f1c76
 
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