Harry Bosch
Contributor
Whoa, you've been one of the biggest Trump cheerleaders on this forum. Are you suddenly having second thoughts, three days after the election??
-
Features
Where to for the democrats now
- Thread starter Will Wiley
- Start date
Whoa, you've been one of the biggest Trump cheerleaders on this forum. Are you suddenly having second thoughts, three days after the election??
Heavy stuff. It is encouraging to see that there are some brave enough in the Democratic party to stand up to entrenched insiders and call out for reform.
Donna Brazile is 57. Let's guess Zach is 25. It seems tough to get the math to work that she leads a full life and climate change shortens his life by 40 years.
But I haven't seen the latest climate models. Maybe they show the earth suddenly turning to a crisp in 2038.
Derec
Contributor
Caveat elector.
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2001
- Messages
- 50,599
- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
KeepTalking
Code Monkey
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
- Messages
- 4,641
- Location
- St. Louis Metro East
- Basic Beliefs
- Atheist, Secular Humanist, Pastifarian, IPUnitard
I would imagine that is the result of payments from The Agency ceasing some time around Tuesday or Wednesday.
Derec
Contributor
Or he takes Day After Tomorrow way too seriously.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Yea, I think that there will be many people like Will who will regret their support of Trump.
Jayjay
Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2002
- Messages
- 7,173
- Location
- Finland
- Basic Beliefs
- An accurate worldview or philosophy
Now is the time to listen to the Zachs of the party. Dems lost everything, and they have 2 or 4 years to do nothing but fix their party. The longer they delay the introspection, or worse yet skip it altogether, the more hopeless in will be in 2020.
Terrell
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,198
- Location
- DMV
- Basic Beliefs
- socially liberal/libertarian on most issues, but not all.
Some new players are needed. They need to have some political talent, good ideas, and be willing to help those people who will ultimately run to replace them when they retire. Judges/Justices appointed by Democratic presidents need to be willing to retire at strategic times. Ruth Bader Ginsberg & Stephen Breyer are examples of those who should have retired during Obama's first term while the Dems still had control of the White House & the Senate. These justices need to learn the value of political pragmatism and cannot let it be about themselves or seeking the perfect replacement. The perfect replacement may not come, you may have to settle for a moderate to avoid a conservative.
Work to get more Democrats elected to state legislatures, governorships, and Congress. Those state level offices are more important than the average voters may think. Those things need to be done, the presidency isn't enough. Down ballot offices likely need a mix of moderates & liberals but the presidency will likely require a somewhat moderate (center-center left) Democrat to get back states like MI, WI, and PA.
For retaking the Senate you'll need more moderate Senators in some of the Midwestern states. States like MO, NC, VA, FL are also attainable by moderate Democrats. There's plenty of long term strategy that Democrats need to step up their game on, this includes liberals/progressives being willing to be pragmatic.
Work to get more Democrats elected to state legislatures, governorships, and Congress. Those state level offices are more important than the average voters may think. Those things need to be done, the presidency isn't enough. Down ballot offices likely need a mix of moderates & liberals but the presidency will likely require a somewhat moderate (center-center left) Democrat to get back states like MI, WI, and PA.
For retaking the Senate you'll need more moderate Senators in some of the Midwestern states. States like MO, NC, VA, FL are also attainable by moderate Democrats. There's plenty of long term strategy that Democrats need to step up their game on, this includes liberals/progressives being willing to be pragmatic.
Last edited:
skepticalbip
Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 7,304
- Basic Beliefs
- Everything we know is wrong (to some degree)
The encouragement is that there is a crack in the zombie like acceptance of the Democrat leadership, not his rather absurd doomsday beliefs.
Heavy stuff. It is encouraging to see that there are some brave enough in the Democratic party to stand up to entrenched insiders and call out for reform.
Donna Brazile is 57. Let's guess Zach is 25. It seems tough to get the math to work that she leads a full life and climate change shortens his life by 40 years.
But I haven't seen the latest climate models. Maybe they show the earth suddenly turning to a crisp in 2038.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Delay the introspection? I just had people tell me that my votes for Gary Johnson (LP) should have gone to Hillary and that it is Johnson's fault that she lost.
I can see someone saying that Green Party votes should go to the Democrats, and Constitution Party votes should go to the Republicans, but who in their right mind (or even their wrong mind) thinks that Johnson "stole" votes from Hillary?
As long as the Democrats are seeking external blame, they'll not get around to the introspection.
Will Wiley
Veteran Member
What I have said repeatedly is that Trump is awful but that as an Australian I prefer him because of what we know of his foreign policy. I used the word prefer repeatedly .I have also repeatedly said that as an Australian I am less concerned about his domestic policy. I have also criticised Clinton. I also said that Sanders would have been my preference out of the major possible candidates.
For some reason you and others have repeatedly called me a Trump supporter because of that.
skepticalbip
Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 7,304
- Basic Beliefs
- Everything we know is wrong (to some degree)
Far too many on this forum seem to have blinders, only seeing a binary comparison. For them, anyone who is not an enthusiastic Clinton supporter is necessarily a die hard Trump supporter.
Sarpedon
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,976
- Location
- MN, US
- Basic Beliefs
- the Philosophy of Not Giving a Damn
Trump is backtracking on his positions at light speed. A little is normal, but in this case I think he's just conforming to the opinion of the last person he talked to, and on Thursday, it was Obama. I wonder who it will be next week. Weak!
Harry Bosch
Contributor
I hate to point out the obvious, but the truth is that there is really is only a binary comparison! Stein and Johnson had no chance. Zero. Zippo. I'd love to have a different system. But I live in the real world. And in the real world, we signal support for our guy by attacking his opponent.
Terrell
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,198
- Location
- DMV
- Basic Beliefs
- socially liberal/libertarian on most issues, but not all.
I don't think one can really be sure w/r/t Johnson and who he draws more votes from. He is aligned with the Democrats on some issues and the Republicans on others. It's probable that he's a wash; though it may slightly favor one over the other overall.
Johnsons positions on issues can be found here.
Some examples, Johnson:
There are plenty of others to check at the aforementioned site linked above.
Johnsons positions on issues can be found here.
Some examples, Johnson:
- Supports abortion rights
- Opposes requiring insurance companies or employers pay for contraception
- Opposes stop & frisk, believes it to be unconstitutional
- Supports zero corporate taxes
- Supports vouchers
- Opposes hate crime laws
- Accepts that Climate Change is caused by humans, but doesn't think there's a government solution
- Never used eminent domain as governor of NM, opposes federal use of it.
- Opposes requiring parents to vaccinate their children.
- Stay in U.N. but avoid regime change.
- Keep free trade agreements
- Generally pro-gun rights
- Pardon Snowden
There are plenty of others to check at the aforementioned site linked above.
Jayjay
Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2002
- Messages
- 7,173
- Location
- Finland
- Basic Beliefs
- An accurate worldview or philosophy
Is there a poll that would ask Johnson and Stein supporters what their second choice would have been? That should give a little bit more scientific answer than trying to compare their vacuous campaign promises.
Terrell
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,198
- Location
- DMV
- Basic Beliefs
- socially liberal/libertarian on most issues, but not all.
JayJay, I don't know of one, but that would be a good option to determine people's second choices. I suspect that he got some liberals & some conservatives. He did get a bigger percentage of the vote than he got in 2012. I don't know if that's the best the Libertarians have ever done.
skepticalbip
Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 7,304
- Basic Beliefs
- Everything we know is wrong (to some degree)
The fact that there were only two of the candidates that had any real chance of winning does not mean that everyone who voted supported either one. A great many, more than any other election I have seen, disliked both and ended up voting against the one they thought was worse, not for either.
I voted for Johnson because I would rather vote for someone than only vote against. However, if there had only been a binary choice I would have voted against Clinton, not for Trump.
Why the fuck would you do that? Don't you have anything good to say about "your guy" that could attract voters to them?
Last edited: