Who lies more --- the Left or the Right?

[Jimmy Higgins]

If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. - President Obama. It's debatable whether it was an intentional lie, but it was highly damaging to public perception of the ACA.

How many people lost their health insurance plans? Almost no one.

The people that lost their "plans" had plans that weren't actually health care plans, but generally catastrophic coverage plans.

If I remember correctly, the number of people who gained coverage exceeded those who lost it. This doesn't change the fact that some people couldn't "keep it".

It is overly simplistic to say that though. Plans that weren't actually health care insurance plans were nixed. Most Americans kept their insurance. The GOP was trying to make people freak out that the entire system was going to change. Most people didn't even notice it happened at all.

Understood & I agree. Can we agree that the statement did not accurately depict what would happen?

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If you like your plan and you like your doctor, you won't have to do a thing. You keep your plan. You keep your doctor.

Context is everything. The people that lost their "plans" (catastrophic coverage) usually didn't have a doctor.

Whole picture? The GOP were tearing at him over this plan, complaining of death panels, people losing their plans, losing their doctors, losing access, fear mongering hyperbole. If Obama says, "The ACA will only affect the plans of people with minimal coverage that is below the limits of what we feel are necessary to ensure a sustainable health care system in our nation," the right-wing is leading with "Obama says people's health care plans will be impacted by the Democrats." Obama couldn't be more forthcoming because the alternate party would crush him with whatever they could get their hands on. And then the people would have taken the GOP bait. Heck, they still did and the GOP crushed the Democrats in 2010, which led to the massive gerrymandering after the 2010 census in the states... all over a bill that is generally looked at favorably in the US today. In general, "the people" are not good with the fine details and the electorate will crush you over a trendy comeback. Welcome to the world of our representative democracy.

At worst, the statement was overly broad (politically designed as such, barely even a political fib), and didn't speak to the impact of what expanding coverage would mean to plans that were not contributing to the health care system and were coverage only for really bad stuff. It was stated as such because of the GOP's belligerence and the electorate's inability to understand finer details. In the end, most people's plans weren't changed at all.

Let's compare this to Trump's lie on his health care reform... reform that would be better, cheaper, etc... that didn't exist at all, other than a political mantra. That is a blatant lie.

 

[Gospel]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

View attachment 46578

Dude, this is the real world. I have to live in it. Don't facepalm because I understand it. It is also lazy as all heck. You haven't even applied any modicum of a rebuttal with data.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

According to this, an estimated 2.6 million people's nongroup coverage plans were impacted. I can't find evidence suggesting large group insurance had any impacts at all.

 

[Gospel]

That's cute. I live in a fantasy land because I fail to consider context in your isolated example of Obama talking about the ACA. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue when your responses are filled with acknowledgments that the statement(s) wasn't entirely accurate. While Obama's decision to say what he did might have been politically appropriate for the climate, it doesn't make the statements accurate.

Edit: I forgot to add that If a person repeatedly makes an inaccurate statement despite having access to correct information, it can often be considered a lie.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. - President Obama. It's debatable whether it was an intentional lie, but it was highly damaging to public perception of the ACA.

Edit: And yes, I'm aware that the plans that didn't qualify were overpriced and subpar, but he should have said Insurance companies would be less able to overcharge for garbage coverage.

Lies have to be intentional. Otherwise they are just mistakes or a lack of understanding.

I don't think anyone realized how much crap "insurance" was out there when Obama said that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. - President Obama. It's debatable whether it was an intentional lie, but it was highly damaging to public perception of the ACA.

How many people lost their health insurance plans? Almost no one.

The people that lost their "plans" had plans that weren't actually health care plans, but generally catastrophic coverage plans.

If I remember correctly, the number of people who gained coverage exceeded those who lost it. This doesn't change the fact that some people couldn't "keep it".

It is overly simplistic to say that though. Plans that weren't actually health care insurance plans were nixed. Most Americans kept their insurance. The GOP was trying to make people freak out that the entire system was going to change. Most people didn't even notice it happened at all.

A lot of the self employed lost their "insurance" because they didn't know they had garbage. Not just the catastrophic ones, but plans that were designed with coverage limits that were worthless if something bad happened.

I remember a discussion on here, someone presenting what the student health plan had been and the new version at about 10x the price, they couldn't see what was different. The original would basically cover a doctor visit, not much more than that.