Why 'cultural appropriation' is an incoherent concept, but the damage from the peddlers of the concept is real

[dismal]

To me the poodles kernel is this: look at the purpose, not the action. Wether it is wrong to use items of other cultures depends on why you do it.

If the kernel is that it's the purpose that matters and not the relative victimhood of the cultures involved then the whole of "cultural appropriation" as grievance in itself is exposed as a sham.

If you have a problem with a given purpose you can state that problem specifically.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

dismal, what has been the actual history of white people in the United States their treatment of non-white cultures? Answer that question honestly, and you might, MIGHT, see how you start off with group X being treated badly, and end up people being upset with the appropriation of the culture of group X, particularly by members of the group who treated group X badly.

You probably won't see why, but give it a shot.

I don't have the slightest problem acknowledging that people of some cultures have historically been treated better in the US than others, and that in other parts of the world different people of different cultures have been treated better or worse.

But, no, I do not see the logic of how this effects the rightness or wrongness of various cultures adopting things from other cultures which is why i asked for someone to lay out that logic.

Then you either don't know or can't comprehend what you said in your first sentence.

Figured you wouldn't get it. Thanks and have great day.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

But, no, I do not see the logic of how this effects the rightness or wrongness of various cultures adopting things from other cultures which is why i asked for someone to lay out that logic.

You did not try to do that. You seem to have tried to claim I am incapable of understanding it because I am not from a culture that could. Not a proud moment for a board dedicated to logic and reason.

I am from a culture that supposedly should be able to see her point, and I don't. There is no purity in culture. Nobody owns a culture. If you want to put lil' nibs on the end of chipsticks and call them chopstick-fork-thingies... am I supposed to get upset because my ancestors didn't use forks, and you are somehow attacking my culture? Is my eating American steak with a fork and knife and wearing a baseball cap somehow unfair to you? Is the both of us eating burritos together somehow wrong? No. It is the intention that matters, the question of whether you are mocking and deriding people... not what you actually decide looks cool and you wanna do.

 

[Malintent]

I'm trying to understand 'cultural appropriation'..

Would the all-white rap group, 'the Beastie Boys', be a good example of the white man appropriating the black man's culture?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm trying to understand 'cultural appropriation'..

Would the all-white rap group, 'the Beastie Boys', be a good example of the white man appropriating the black man's culture?

Beastie Boys came out earlyish, in the Run DMC days, before rap would transition to what it would become later.

As far as appropriation? Look at Vanilla Ice v Eminem.

 

[dismal]

I don't have the slightest problem acknowledging that people of some cultures have historically been treated better in the US than others, and that in other parts of the world different people of different cultures have been treated better or worse.

But, no, I do not see the logic of how this effects the rightness or wrongness of various cultures adopting things from other cultures which is why i asked for someone to lay out that logic.

Then you either don't know or can't comprehend what you said in your first sentence.

Figured you wouldn't get it. Thanks and have great day.

Curious, did you consider that a logical explanation?

Because it sure seemed like you did exactly what I asked you not to do because it would not help.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm trying to understand 'cultural appropriation'..

Would the all-white rap group, 'the Beastie Boys', be a good example of the white man appropriating the black man's culture?

This here is just one more example of the black elitists trying to suppress the white man when he fights for his right to party.

 

[Malintent]

I'm trying to understand 'cultural appropriation'..

Would the all-white rap group, 'the Beastie Boys', be a good example of the white man appropriating the black man's culture?

Beastie Boys came out earlyish, in the Run DMC days, before rap would transition to what it would become later.

As far as appropriation? Look at Vanilla Ice v Eminem.

I refuse to look at them. .but I will discuss... are the two examples you provided good representations of what CA is?

 

[KeepTalking]

I'm trying to understand 'cultural appropriation'..

Would the all-white rap group, 'the Beastie Boys', be a good example of the white man appropriating the black man's culture?

Beastie Boys came out earlyish, in the Run DMC days, before rap would transition to what it would become later.

As far as appropriation? Look at Vanilla Ice v Eminem.

The Beastie Boys and Vanilla Ice are more contemporary to each other than Vanilla Ice and Eminem. The Beastie Boys first album came out in 1986, and Vanilla Ice's first album came out in 1989, while Eminem's first album came out in 1996.

Of course there was no such thing as 'cultural appropriation' back then, just like there was no such thing as 'cultural appropriation' when Elvis played Rock 'n Roll inspired by black performers in the 1950's, and The Yardbirds played the Blues in the 1960's. All of those people performed the music because they enjoyed listening to it. Plenty of people criticized Elvis, but most of that came from whites who thought the music was beneath white people to perform. Plenty of Blues performers criticized the Yardbirds performances because the Blues just wasn't the Blues if it wan't performed by black artists.

The critics were all wrong, and all of those artists that were criticized became successful despite the criticism. Why anyone would want to guard their culture, whether it be in the form of music, or story telling, or hair styles, from being more widely disseminated is beyond me. If you enjoy that culture, why wouldn't you want more people to also receive enjoyment from it? That is what makes the idea of 'cultural appropriation' incoherent to me. Culture spreads beyond the originating group because people outside that group enjoy it, so why deprive others of something you also enjoy?

 

[dismal]

It's probably been 10,000+ years since there was a musician who didn't appropriate from other musicians.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

People have been doing things even longer than that.

 

[Malintent]

Beastie Boys came out earlyish, in the Run DMC days, before rap would transition to what it would become later.

As far as appropriation? Look at Vanilla Ice v Eminem.

The Beastie Boys and Vanilla Ice are more contemporary to each other than Vanilla Ice and Eminem. The Beastie Boys first album came out in 1986, and Vanilla Ice's first album came out in 1989, while Eminem's first album came out in 1996.

Of course there was no such thing as 'cultural appropriation' back then, just like there was no such thing as 'cultural appropriation' when Elvis played Rock 'n Roll inspired by black performers in the 1950's, and The Yardbirds played the Blues in the 1960's. All of those people performed the music because they enjoyed listening to it. Plenty of people criticized Elvis, but most of that came from whites who thought the music was beneath white people to perform. Plenty of Blues performers criticized the Yardbirds performances because the Blues just wasn't the Blues if it wan't performed by black artists.

The critics were all wrong, and all of those artists that were criticized became successful despite the criticism. Why anyone would want to guard their culture, whether it be in the form of music, or story telling, or hair styles, from being more widely disseminated is beyond me. If you enjoy that culture, why wouldn't you want more people to also receive enjoyment from it? That is what makes the idea of 'cultural appropriation' incoherent to me. Culture spreads beyond the originating group because people outside that group enjoy it, so why deprive others of something you also enjoy?

If cultural appropriation did not exist when Elvis sang 'black music', for example, then what is it that changed in society that makes cultural appropriation exist today?