Your Political Philosophy

[Speakpigeon]

You concentrate on organization of political, social, technological, ans cultural characteristics in judging relative civilization. My view is that we are first human beings. Measures of what serves bringing human beings into functional groups is of primary interest for those identifying whether and how well those groupings operate as civilizations.

Civilizing aims to bring humans together under common methods and principles. That which makes groups human beings more likely to include all human beings is my primary index of rating common era civilizations. So those groups that exhibit capacity to harbor and include other groups within its organizations are more civilized than those groups that tend to isolate themselves. Also groups endure are more civilized than groups that are only transient.

Lower and Upper kingdom Egypt, Sumeria, Hindu India, Dynastic China from 1500 BC, Byzantium, Rome, Rashidan-Abbisad Caliphate, Ottoman Caliphate, Mayan and Inca empires, and the British empire, are examples best meeting those objectives across the agricultural and industrial eras.

Yes I include blood cultures, slave cultures, repressive cultures, among those whom I believe transcend single areas of dominance in my marking advanced civilizations. Longevity and Multi-group inclusion together with organization, invention, innovation, define relative civilization.

My point is preeminent civilization cannot be merely well organized, but, it needs to be inclusive, noted for innovation and invention in their era to be call advanced in a period.

Perhaps the Prussian-German empire was a competitor for the British empire, but, it was not noted for innovation nor inclusion. Rather it was noted for repression, subjugation, and classism. Note I completely ignore Tsarist Russia for similar reasons primarily isolation. As for My Sparta reference I used it as an example of a repressive short lived isolationist society.

Of course what I lay out is not a political philosophy. Rather it is a civilization philosophy more nearly identified with Utopianism than theocracy or democracy.

And so back to Germany between WW1 and WW2. Even excluding Einstein (he didn't have a job in Germany in 1905), Germany was at the forefront of physics and had a plethora of first rate scientists (many of them Jewish of course), including Quantum Physics luminaries Max Planck, Max Born, Erwin Schrödinger and Werner Heisenberg, and had a large number of scientific institutions. When Germany was defeated in 1945, the U.S.S.R., the U.S. and the U.K. all grabbed the still large number of German scientists still alive, who went on to contribute to space exploration, cryptology, nuclear energy, superconductivity etc. They also had mathematicians, logicians (modern logic was founded mainly by German and British people), and influential philosophers and artists, again many of them Jewish. Aside from the Nazis, I think it's probably true to say that Germany was still significantly less open than Britain or France for example, but probably not so as to be regarded as less civilised. It was just the mentality of the time, with Afro-Americans still to get their civil rights in the U.S. for example. France also had a large number of Nazi sympathisers at the time and Britain had Enoch Powell in the 60s. Further, to judge "civilised" on the basis of inclusiveness seems biased. It's probably true that inclusiveness is an advantage in the long term but very few civilisations have been inclusive (the Romans to some extent and ours dating back to the French and American revolutions...). And of course you would have to count Israel as less civilised for being an excusively Jewish state. So while inclusiveness is a factor in the development of a civilisation it cannot count as a criterion. Also I'm not saying that Nazi Germany was the most civilised regime, only that Nazism appeared in Germany which was the most civilized country at the time. Without the Nazis, I think the modern era would have been shaped much more by the German people than it turned out to be.
EB

 

[iolo]

I believe absolutely in democracy and the maximum possible individual freedom, and see neither as in the least compatible with the current economic system, which bids fair to destroy the world entirely in its insane obsession with profit, and all humane education with its desperate urge to turn it into conditioning for wage slaves. I believe that if we could get free to control our world, we could produce a creative Utopia within a few generations. To do these things we have to break free of some huge conditioning, which will, alas, be difficult. Without solidarity, however, I think the species will have disappeared within the next century.

 

[fromderinside]

My view is that we are first human beings. Measures of what serves bringing human beings into functional groups is of primary interest for those identifying whether and how well those groupings operate as civilizations.

Civilizing aims to bring humans together under common methods and principles. That which makes groups human beings more likely to include all human beings is my primary index of rating common era civilizations. So those groups that exhibit capacity to harbor and include other groups within its organizations are more civilized than those groups that tend to isolate themselves. Also groups endure are more civilized than groups that are only transient.

It's probably true that inclusiveness is an advantage in the long term but very few civilisations have been inclusive (the Romans to some extent and ours dating back to the French and American revolutions...). And of course you would have to count Israel as less civilised for being an excusively Jewish state. So while inclusiveness is a factor in the development of a civilisation it cannot count as a criterion. Also I'm not saying that Nazi Germany was the most civilised regime, only that Nazism appeared in Germany which was the most civilized country at the time. Without the Nazis, I think the modern era would have been shaped much more by the German people than it turned out to be.
EB

Just like when: thought is permitted or encouraged as it was among those who encoded language just as they had already done with transactions on tablets in Sumeria, Babylonia, Egypt; free discussion of politics and philosophy emerged in the upper classes in Greece; establishment of a Senate in Rome; the founding of the Library in Alexandria; inclusiveness and communication was extended. Along with consequences of such changes: development of tax collecting systems in China; irrigation in Egypt; commerce in China and Phoenicia; roads and ways for transition from class to class in Rome; etc, and technological derivatives: permitted by invention of paper; the printing press; opening up navigation around the world by China and Europe and perhaps the Vikings; all come from more inclusion and freedom to do with mind and hand.

I don't thing we are disagreeing on what is civilization except its context. Every thing you point out has roots in increased communication, commerce, and mobility. The civilizations we both point to are obvious innovators there. As for our most contentious group, the Germans, they formalized the university system which permitted them to attract the brightest throughout the world. As for the US it was a wild west of entrepreneurship, but, only a middling elitist country until it established the land grant university system and its national parks system. From the entrepreneurship came a national rail system for commerce and then communication free press, the telegraph telegraph, radio, motion pictures, the bomb, and every thing else most hate about it.

 

[rousseau]

Intrsting that we're at the front-end of 'civilization'. The spread of agriculture happened only a few thousand years ago. We can talk of a couple hundred years, but what will 10 000, 50 000 do?

People think we're modern, but only a few decades ago people were lynching black people. I'd propose that in 50 000 social evolution will produce much more socially conscious persons.

 

[fromderinside]

Check out what's taking place right now. Individual tendencies like those of personal fear are driving political movements toward difference tending. Such is the problem we'll be having in 50,000 years,as we have seen in the last 10,000 years.

Trends back and forth from Hunter gatherer to fixed place industry and farming have ebbed and flowed, but there is still strong evidence these tendencies are still unresolved. Tribe is still a discussion between Ukraine and Russia, and now, in Europe as well. America has presented a candidate for highest office who has attracted new racists mainly out of fear.

While I'm hopeful, civilization needs to go much further if it is to overcome fear driving. Unfortunately the only possibilities I see for that right now are either genetic engineering or pharmaceutical treatment. Those options lead to other grave possibilities.

 

[rousseau]

Although I'd argue that the needle is moving in terms of social norms. In only a few hundred years minority and women's rights have improved immensely. I'd expect this trend to continue.

If people are trained to accept social norms, and social norms tend toward acceptance, we should expect the human race to become more and more accepting and empathetic.

Given we're in the very beginning of the information age I'd even expect this trend to accelerate as good ideas spread more quickly.

 

[fromderinside]

Fearful am I.

Putin tribalism in Baltics and Ukraine.

Le Pen anti foreigner in France.

Right wing increases in Germany, England, Spain, Portugal and Greece at least.

Trump and racism as candidate for president in US.

Homophobic eruptions in Turkey and most of ME.

I now there are beginnings of right word shift in Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Push back against openness in Asia, particularly Pakistan, India and former east Asian soviet republics..

Africa is a sewer of ethnic, racial, and sexual hatred and repression.

As for information it seems fear has the speed lane here.

Still, the goal is increased, maintained, acceptance regimes and policies.

 

[rousseau]

It's all a blip in the overall progression. Racism and xenophobia are predominantly problems with boomers and prior generations, at least in reference to gen x and millenials.

Fear will remain but inclusiveness will definitely grow.

 

[ryan]

Fearful am I.

Putin tribalism in Baltics and Ukraine.

Le Pen anti foreigner in France.

Right wing increases in Germany, England, Spain, Portugal and Greece at least.

Trump and racism as candidate for president in US.

Homophobic eruptions in Turkey and most of ME.

I now there are beginnings of right word shift in Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Push back against openness in Asia, particularly Pakistan, India and former east Asian soviet republics..

Africa is a sewer of ethnic, racial, and sexual hatred and repression.

As for information it seems fear has the speed lane here.

Still, the goal is increased, maintained, acceptance regimes and policies.

"Right word" shift in Canada? How so? We just elected a liberal federal government last year, and most of the more powerful provinces are either democratic or liberal.

 

[fromderinside]

"Right word" shift in Canada? How so? We just elected a liberal federal government last year, and most of the more powerful provinces are either democratic or liberal.

Health Care (40%), Tax Cuts (34%), Increasing Taxes on the Wealthy (28%), Cutting the Deficit (28%) and Help for the Middle Class (28%) Top Canadians’ Budget Priorities http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7182

Oh ameri ...., Canada ....

sure looks like center right to me.

 

[ryan]

"Right word" shift in Canada? How so? We just elected a liberal federal government last year, and most of the more powerful provinces are either democratic or liberal.

Health Care (40%), Tax Cuts (34%), Increasing Taxes on the Wealthy (28%), Cutting the Deficit (28%) and Help for the Middle Class (28%) Top Canadians’ Budget Priorities http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7182

Oh ameri ...., Canada ....

sure looks like center right to me.

We just elected them. In less than a year everyone just totally does a 180, bullllll shhhh

Never take a poll over an actual election.

 

[fromderinside]

Health Care (40%), Tax Cuts (34%), Increasing Taxes on the Wealthy (28%), Cutting the Deficit (28%) and Help for the Middle Class (28%) Top Canadians’ Budget Priorities http://www.ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7182

Oh ameri ...., Canada ....

sure looks like center right to me.

We just elected them. In less than a year everyone just totally does a 180, bullllll shhhh

Never take a poll over an actual election.

It may be that the liberal platform includes tax cuts and deficit cutting? Just sayin'

Besides the poll is much more recent. I'm not saying the election is history but, well, it is.

 

[ryan]

We just elected them. In less than a year everyone just totally does a 180, bullllll shhhh

Never take a poll over an actual election.

It may be that the liberal platform includes tax cuts and deficit cutting? Just sayin'

Besides the poll is much more recent. I'm not saying the election is history but, well, it is.

Look, we have a solid left-wing government - for now. Maybe those percentages were the majorities of various alternatives. The link's information is too vague.

 

[fromderinside]

If you are a Canadian Attention:

Place your forefinger over your thumb, start walking. Now begin drawing your forefinger back and forth over your thumb.

Very good.

 

[ryan]

If you are a Canadian Attention:

Place your forefinger over your thumb, start walking. Now begin drawing your forefinger back and forth over your thumb.

Very good.

Capitalistic? You would think so. But there is a hidden intellectual base developing. If you look at the number of universities in the top 200, for example, you will see Canada has 8, http://www.topuniversities.com/univ...region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search= . That is only 4%. But Canada has only 35 million of the 1.4 billion in the G8 (if we include Russia) which is less than 3% by population.

 

[fromderinside]

Oooh. Been stretching alot lately. It takes that to get liberal from a variance of one percent from, well, average. OhmygawdCanada, eh?

 

[ryan]

Oooh. Been stretching alot lately. It takes that to get liberal from a variance of one percent from, well, average. OhmygawdCanada, eh?

I am stretching - wow! Canada just elects a liberal government 7 months ago from a conservative one, and you say that we are moving to the right. I know it is impossible for people on here to admit when they are wrong, but this unconscionable.

 

[fromderinside]

Oooh. Been stretching alot lately. It takes that to get liberal from a variance of one percent from, well, average. OhmygawdCanada, eh?

I am stretching - wow! Canada just elects a liberal government 7 months ago from a conservative one, and you say that we are moving to the right. I know it is impossible for people on here to admit when they are wrong, but this unconscionable.

I only mention your argument is shit. 3% contrasted with 4% signifies nothing.

On the other hand a poll in Oh-Canada that reflects American sentiments, well known center right politically, surely provides context for my claim about Canada's leanings regardless of an election nine months past.

So yeah you're stretching and no I''m not stretching.

 

[ryan]

I am stretching - wow! Canada just elects a liberal government 7 months ago from a conservative one, and you say that we are moving to the right. I know it is impossible for people on here to admit when they are wrong, but this unconscionable.

I only mention your argument is shit. 3% contrasted with 4% signifies nothing.

On the other hand a poll in Oh-Canada that reflects American sentiments, well known center right politically, surely provides context for my claim about Canada's leanings regardless of an election nine months past.

So yeah you're stretching and no I''m not stretching.

Fromderinside, from the information you were given, you were absolutely right to assume Canada is leaning to the right. So I am giving you good information suggesting otherwise.

Put your worries for Canada to rest. The liberals have gained popularity since the election, http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-liberal-honeymoon-1.3540724 .

 

[fromderinside]

Yeah. Canada is all about love your Bieber.