zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance

[Wiploc]

Can somebody please explain the greatness of this book?

It had a lovely theodicy. That only accounts for two or three pages, though.

And, as with any theodicy, to make it work, you have to conveniently "forget" one or more of the omnis (omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent). Still it was beautiful:

Riding motorcycles across the desert. Difficult days. Hot, dry. Finally they get to the mountains, and feel so good. They feel good together, having come thru the desert together. One of their wives couldn't come with them. But she wants to fly to the mountains to join them. But that would ruin it, because she hasn't been thru the desert with them. She wouldn't feel what they feel, wouldn't be part of their group. Letting anyone straight into Heaven without torturing them in purgatory first would ruin Heaven for the good people who earned the right to be there. And they're in such a good mood; it would be a shame to ruin it.

Screw the reprobate.


Note: I'm not claiming that this Cliffs Notes version is beautiful, just that that few pages in the book was.

 

[Wiploc]

Another book from that period was Carlos Castanada's The Teachings of Don Juan.

I loved this quote I read somewhere, something like:

"Don Juan is an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a tortilla."

 

[credoconsolans]

OP - you're not alone.

The books sucks. I started it and couldn't bring myself to finish it.

I got 2/3 of the way through it and just gave up. It was not deep, the guy wasn't having any thoughts no one had ever had before...just pedestrian, no pun intended.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But I really hate being smugly self-congratulatory.

Then avoid taking philosophy courses. As near as I can tell, the point of studying philosophy is to discover that you're smarter than Plato and them.

Don´t agree at all. Philosophy for me is about learning about new ways to ask questions. To exercise the ability to shift perspective. Philosophy is rarely about supplying answers.

 

[skepticalbip]

My only problem with Castaneda is that it´s a Western filtering of Indian religion to the point where it´s all just bullshit projections from a drug addled mind. .

Your only problem? Isn't that kinda like saying that the only problem with homeopathy is that it is total bullshit?

The fact that the whole book was presenting drug induced hallucinations as "deeper reality" just played to the drug culture of the time. It didn't reveal mystic hidden truths, that its advocates claimed, to its cult followers or anyone else.

 

[DrZoidberg]

My only problem with Castaneda is that it´s a Western filtering of Indian religion to the point where it´s all just bullshit projections from a drug addled mind. .

Your only problem? Isn't that kinda like saying that the only problem with homeopathy is that it is total bullshit?

The fact that the whole book was presenting drug induced hallucinations as "deeper reality" just played to the drug culture of the time. It didn't reveal mystic hidden truths, that its advocates claimed, to its cult followers or anyone else.

That´s not what I meant. I meant that there was genuine wisdom in the book. But that wisdom didn´t come from ancient Indian teachings. It came from the sociology and psychology departments of the world´s universities. It came from science, and the scientific world. The 50´ies and 60´ies was a monumental shift in how we saw ourselves. All the old conservative values were dying real fast and we were struggling to find something to replace it with. This is of course still something we´re struggling with. We´re still right up in the middle of this revolution, ie the shift from an agrarian world to a... well... whatever stable social culture we´ll get at some point. This is what I meant Castaneda was projecting onto the Toltects. He was seeing things that weren´t there. It was of course smart because nobody could challenge him really. The Toltec old teachings were transmitted orally only.

What died with the end of the 70´ies was the idea that someone could come up with a simple one-size-fits-all solution for how we should all live our lives. That was the culture of the time Castaneda was a part of. There´s no difference between what they were trying to do back then and what we´re doing today. We are all looking for methods and ways to live better lives. But today we approach the project with a wee bit more humility then Castaneda´s generation did.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I read both books as a teenager and enjoyed both of them. Castaneda I followed for four or five books.

I didn't know any philosophy at the time. The author of Z&TAOMM referred to himself as Phaedrus, a character and a dialogue in Plato. I liked how he used the idea of Quality in his writing classes to motivate his students. I don't recall anything eastern in it at all, but, as I said, I didn't know any philosophy at the time.

The Casataneda books were fun, for a while, and there's something to be said for the idea of living as a Hunter or a Warrior, ie that life is a quest and a struggle.

To that degree I'd call them inspirational rather than philosophical.

 

[Guyt]

It is one of those must-read books; you are not "cultured" (as the French say) if you haven't read them.

Same for me, I made it to about 3/4 of the way before putting it down for good.

It's like Foucauld's Pendulum, which I haven't bothered with.

 

[Earl IV]

I find the service manual that I got with my bike to be more helpful (and more interesting)

 

[skepticalbip]

I have been trying to remember the name of a book on Buddhism that impressed me back in the late 1970s when I became interested in Buddhism and Zen. I am pretty sure that it was by Christmas Humphreys so it must have either been his book simply titled Buddhism or the one simply titled Zen: A Way of Life. It was great because it was just strait forward description, almost like lessons, without trying to imbed it in some narrative or story like Castaneda or Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I have several other books on Buddhism by other authors but none as understandable and well written.

But I do have one book on Buddhism that I have never seen in bookstores, The Teaching of Buddha. It was in my hotel room in Taiwan placed there like Gideon’s Bibles are in hotel rooms here. Apparently they have certain rooms for English speakers because the book was in English, a real surprise to me since finding anything I could read in Taiwan was rare. Anyway, I began reading it (there wasn’t much else to do at night) and got interested so it ended up in my briefcase to read on the flight home.

 

[Wiploc]

Another book from that period was Carlos Castanada's The Teachings of Don Juan.

I loved this quote I read somewhere, something like:

"Don Juan is an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a tortilla."

Sorry, the quote was about Carlos Castanada, not about Don Juan.