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zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance

DrZoidberg

DrZoidberg

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Can somebody please explain the greatness of this book? I just read it, and it seems to make the banal point that things appear different depending on perspective. Well...whoopdy... fucking.. do. Not amazed.

My problem is that really smart people that I respect have recommended this. It makes me wonder if it's me who is missing something? Am I too stupid for this book?
 
You're probably just smarter than the smart people who recommended it to you. Good job.
 
Now I'm reading another 70'ies classic The Illuminatus! Trilogy. That one is brilliant! A book based upon the idea that every conspiracy theory is true, even if they contradict one another. The plot is preposterous. But then again is the subject matter. A really cleverly written book. And extremely funny. The references are a bit dated. But if you're interested in 70'ies, hippies, counter culture I recommend it. The plot is preposterous. But then again is the subject matt

So anybody thinking about reading, Zen and the art of... bla bla, pick up Illuminatus instead. You'll learn more.

edit: This is actually a really good way to deconstruct conspiracy theories. Take them seriously and and figure out what the end result would look like. It most likely won't be anything remotely resembling the world we actually live in. Which would debunk the conspiracy.
 
It would appear that you enjoy conspiracy theories far more than Zen. :D

How 'great' any book is perceived depends largely on the life experience of the reader and their ability to comprehend and empathize with the experiences portrayed in the book. Many people have suggested that I should write a book about the Yukon Quest, the toughest sled dog race on the planet. I have declined to do so, even though I have raced in it three times, was the Race Marshall in 1995 and am the first Canadian woman to compete in and complete a 1000 mile race by dog team.

I am a bit of a hobby writer and have actually received remuneration for some of my work and I do not doubt that I could produce an excellent read but I don't think there are enough people who could comprehend what the race is all about to make this expenditure of my energy worthwhile. There are also many animal rights people who do not understand that racing dogs live to run and the majority of people who participate in the sport take far better care of their animals than they do of themselves. A few bad actors have tainted this sport as happens in so many aspects of life.

In summary, each of us has different interests at different points in our life. The topics that I read now are far different from those that I read a decade ago and you may discover that your interests and comprehension also shift over time. :)
 
One of many new age books from the period. Zen and Buddhism in general was a fad.

People were leaving Christianity and the perceived mysterious eastern traditions were thought to have some special esoteric knowledge not available in the west.

A generation earlier was the utopian Lost Horizons about an idyllic isolated society in a secret valley in the Himalayas.

Other books I remember

The Tao Of Physics
Dancing Wu Li Masters.

Don't think you are missing anything.
 
Under the Rose said:
It would appear that you enjoy conspiracy theories far more than Zen. :D

How 'great' any book is perceived depends largely on the life experience of the reader and their ability to comprehend and empathize with the experiences portrayed in the book. Many people have suggested that I should write a book about the Yukon Quest, the toughest sled dog race on the planet. I have declined to do so, even though I have raced in it three times, was the Race Marshall in 1995 and am the first Canadian woman to compete in and complete a 1000 mile race by dog team.

I am a bit of a hobby writer and have actually received remuneration for some of my work and I do not doubt that I could produce an excellent read but I don't think there are enough people who could comprehend what the race is all about to make this expenditure of my energy worthwhile. There are also many animal rights people who do not understand that racing dogs live to run and the majority of people who participate in the sport take far better care of their animals than they do of themselves. A few bad actors have tainted this sport as happens in so many aspects of life.

In summary, each of us has different interests at different points in our life. The topics that I read now are far different from those that I read a decade ago and you may discover that your interests and comprehension also shift over time. :)
Click to expand...

That is WAY cool.
 
Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back is a best seller on Amazon. I've thought about stone cold making up some shit like this and putting it on Kindle. Not so much to make money, but more of an experiment in human gullibility.
 
steve_bnk said:
... Buddhism in general was a fad...
Click to expand...

That gets both a :laughing-smiley-014 and :rolleyes: from me.

Buddhism’s impact on “the west” is tremendous and has increased with time. It’s changed the face of psychotherapy practiced in mental health facilities across the US and other countries, among other influences.

I’m not sure how “Zen” the book in the OP is. The word’s used in the title of cookbooks and so much else. I understand this particular book is a road trip where a father and son both have an adventure and discuss philosophy in general. If he talked about mindfulness in the book, then that’s increasingly popular topic. Mindfulness is being present to reality, something philosophers and people in general have lacked forever. So it’s not a bad influence from “the east”.
 
NobleSavage said:
Under the Rose said:
It would appear that you enjoy conspiracy theories far more than Zen. :D

How 'great' any book is perceived depends largely on the life experience of the reader and their ability to comprehend and empathize with the experiences portrayed in the book. Many people have suggested that I should write a book about the Yukon Quest, the toughest sled dog race on the planet. I have declined to do so, even though I have raced in it three times, was the Race Marshall in 1995 and am the first Canadian woman to compete in and complete a 1000 mile race by dog team.

I am a bit of a hobby writer and have actually received remuneration for some of my work and I do not doubt that I could produce an excellent read but I don't think there are enough people who could comprehend what the race is all about to make this expenditure of my energy worthwhile. There are also many animal rights people who do not understand that racing dogs live to run and the majority of people who participate in the sport take far better care of their animals than they do of themselves. A few bad actors have tainted this sport as happens in so many aspects of life.

In summary, each of us has different interests at different points in our life. The topics that I read now are far different from those that I read a decade ago and you may discover that your interests and comprehension also shift over time. :)
Click to expand...

That is WAY cool.
Click to expand...

Thank you, NobleSavage. My experience with white gas (naptha) at -50F was used by our local fire office for years afterwards to explain the fact that vaporization of flammable liquids at extremely low temperatures is greatly reduced. At normal summer temperatures, you can singe your eyebrows if you are not careful with open flame near white gas because it vaporizes very rapidly. At -50F, I literally had to touch the match to the wood which I had poured the fuel upon. I was so cold that I did not know if I could even strike another match and I was thinking that someone had switched my fuel for water except that water would not be pourable at those temps. :confused:

It was a reality check for sure. Mess up in those temperatures and you will die. In very short time. :shock:
 
abaddon said:
steve_bnk said:
... Buddhism in general was a fad...
Click to expand...

That gets both a :laughing-smiley-014 and :rolleyes: from me.

Buddhism’s impact on “the west” is tremendous and has increased with time. It’s changed the face of psychotherapy practiced in mental health facilities across the US and other countries, among other influences.

I’m not sure how “Zen” the book in the OP is. The word’s used in the title of cookbooks and so much else. I understand this particular book is a road trip where a father and son both have an adventure and discuss philosophy in general. If he talked about mindfulness in the book, then that’s increasingly popular topic. Mindfulness is being present to reality, something philosophers and people in general have lacked forever. So it’s not a bad influence from “the east”.
Click to expand...

Therefore it was a fad. Not saying that "Buddhism" in itself is a fad. But the OMG mystical aura hype is a fad. Sort of like Wicca's appeal surging at the time of the Harry Potter movies. That was a fad too. Our societies are looking for something and therefore follows weird ghost lights in weird patterns of fashion. I guess it's just what happens in an age of the breakdown of old hollowed certainties (Christianity) within the context of the further uncertainties of dysfunctional market wild capitalism. Zen Buddhism (the actual kind) seems to me a more benign response to the generalized angst. The talking ape needs connection!
 
abaddon said:
steve_bnk said:
... Buddhism in general was a fad...
Click to expand...

That gets both a :laughing-smiley-014 and :rolleyes: from me.

Buddhism’s impact on “the west” is tremendous and has increased with time. It’s changed the face of psychotherapy practiced in mental health facilities across the US and other countries, among other influences.

I’m not sure how “Zen” the book in the OP is. The word’s used in the title of cookbooks and so much else. I understand this particular book is a road trip where a father and son both have an adventure and discuss philosophy in general. If he talked about mindfulness in the book, then that’s increasingly popular topic. Mindfulness is being present to reality, something philosophers and people in general have lacked forever. So it’s not a bad influence from “the east”.
Click to expand...

The thing that is so fun about people exploring eastern philosophy as if it's is that anything of western philosophy after Shoppenhaur is an amalgam of western and eastern philosophy. A lot smarter people than us have already, and a long time ago, picked apart eastern philosophy and used the parts of it that are useful. The rest is mostly just woo.

I'd even be so bold as to claim that any western philosophy after Shoppenhaur isn't western at all. It's global. Because that was the first time in history that any thinker on the planet had access to what any other thinker on the planet had previously written. And ideas couldn't give a rats ass about nationality.
 
DrZoidberg said:
abaddon said:
That gets both a :laughing-smiley-014 and :rolleyes: from me.

Buddhism’s impact on “the west” is tremendous and has increased with time. It’s changed the face of psychotherapy practiced in mental health facilities across the US and other countries, among other influences.

I’m not sure how “Zen” the book in the OP is. The word’s used in the title of cookbooks and so much else. I understand this particular book is a road trip where a father and son both have an adventure and discuss philosophy in general. If he talked about mindfulness in the book, then that’s increasingly popular topic. Mindfulness is being present to reality, something philosophers and people in general have lacked forever. So it’s not a bad influence from “the east”.
Click to expand...

The thing that is so fun about people exploring eastern philosophy as if it's is that anything of western philosophy after Shoppenhaur is an amalgam of western and eastern philosophy. A lot smarter people than us have already, and a long time ago, picked apart eastern philosophy and used the parts of it that are useful. The rest is mostly just woo.

I'd even be so bold as to claim that any western philosophy after Shoppenhaur isn't western at all. It's global. Because that was the first time in history that any thinker on the planet had access to what any other thinker on the planet had previously written. And ideas couldn't give a rats ass about nationality.
Click to expand...
I'd pretty much agree with your assessment if we take Western philosophy to mean only continental philosophy. The Anglo-American analytic philosophers don't borrow much if at all from "the East."
 
J842P said:
DrZoidberg said:
The thing that is so fun about people exploring eastern philosophy as if it's is that anything of western philosophy after Shoppenhaur is an amalgam of western and eastern philosophy. A lot smarter people than us have already, and a long time ago, picked apart eastern philosophy and used the parts of it that are useful. The rest is mostly just woo.

I'd even be so bold as to claim that any western philosophy after Shoppenhaur isn't western at all. It's global. Because that was the first time in history that any thinker on the planet had access to what any other thinker on the planet had previously written. And ideas couldn't give a rats ass about nationality.
Click to expand...
I'd pretty much agree with your assessment if we take Western philosophy to mean only continental philosophy. The Anglo-American analytic philosophers don't borrow much if at all from "the East."
Click to expand...

Hmm... don't agree. It's not like the analytics were an isolated island. They were very much a reaction to what was happening in Europe. So in that respect a part of it. The marriage of west and east created an explosion of ideas, many paths were off in wild directions. So I'd still say they were part of it. The fact that European continental philosophy-snobs looked down on anything produced in the colonies and that way remained largely untouched by it far into the 20'th century... is beside the point.

But I'm not going to say you're wrong. Either side can be argued for successfully IMHO
 
DrZoidberg said:
Can somebody please explain the greatness of this book? I just read it, and it seems to make the banal point that things appear different depending on perspective. Well...whoopdy... fucking.. do. Not amazed.

My problem is that really smart people that I respect have recommended this. It makes me wonder if it's me who is missing something? Am I too stupid for this book?
Click to expand...

LOL--I agree totally.

I read it several years ago, and was, like, "WTF? What was all the hype about?" And, mind you: I am an avid motorcyclist.
And what was up with that whole diatribe at the end about "quality?" How many times did he use that word in five or six pages? A hundred?

Yeah...I guess the book came along at the right time for it to gain popularity: in the 60s and 70s with the whole Easy Rider and counterculture thing happening. I find that it is badly dated today, and since it's time it's entire message has been explained much more lucidly and entertainingly.
 
Another book from that period was Carlos Castanada's The Teachings of Don Juan. It had a cult following at the time. The best I remember (it's been decades since I read it) it was about using peyote, under the guidance of an old Indian witch doctor, to learn the wisdom of native Americans. I wouldn't recommend wasting the time reading it.

As I recall, The Tao of Pooh was fairly entertaining though.
 
skepticalbip said:
Another book from that period was Carlos Castanada's The Teachings of Don Juan. It had a cult following at the time. The best I remember (it's been decades since I read it) it was about using peyote, under the guidance of an old Indian witch doctor, to learn the wisdom of native Americans. I wouldn't recommend wasting the time reading it.
Click to expand...

My only problem with Castaneda is that it´s a Western filtering of Indian religion to the point where it´s all just bullshit projections from a drug addled mind. That said, there is wisdom in the book. I can recommend The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, which is based on Castaneda´s philosophy, but without the narration. It´s not particularly deep, and I read it as an adult, ie I´d already learned all this from life. But for a teenager it´s a great book IMHO. But I have the same critique against it a Don Juan. It´s got absolutely nothing to do with any ancient Indian religious tradition or teachings. More likely the teachings spring from the counter-cultural academic world of the 60´ies and drug fuelled psychadelic rock parties held among philosophy students studying continental philosophy.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal/dp/1878424319

http://media.tumblr.com/9377b7bab409cb0d33184c761d5aabae/tumblr_inline_ms60bpmtiF1qz4rgp.jpg

skepticalbip said:
As I recall, The Tao of Pooh was fairly entertaining though.
Click to expand...


As I remember the Tao of Pooh is pretty devoid from woo. It´s all just practical lessons for life. Which is religion as it´s best, ie actually useful.
 
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