Stephen Breyer to retire at the end of this court session.

[Copernicus]

Nobody disputes the fact that Ketanji Brown Jackson's name identifies her likely racial identity and therefore leads people to make assumptions about her on that basis without ever even meeting her. The fact is that race and gender were factors in getting her the nomination during Biden's presidency, but they would have been a factor in preventing her nomination for well over two centuries of American history before now. Ideally, they wouldn't be a factor at all, but reality doesn't work that way.

There are of course people who do not agree that 'ideally', KBJ's ethnicity and sex should not be a factor. They champion the idea that black people and black women in particular should continue to be preferenced for high profile roles.

There are also, of course, white supremacists who would gladly murder her for having assumed such a high profile role. The world is full of all sorts of people. What's your point other than the fact that you appear not to like it when racial discrimination goes against white people? This was a historic Supreme Court appointment precisely because she broke a barrier that most white people were perfectly happy to leave in place.

I don't like racial discrimination for or against anybody.

I am quite sure, however, that in this instance you don't know what 'most' white people want.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on that point. I've lived in America a lot longer than you have, and I've seen the surveys and polls, not to mention elections. The results of that study were not in the least surprising. All you have to go on is TV and movie entertainment. I'll refrain from trying to lecture you on  Racism in Australia. I suspect that you've never been on the wrong end of it, but you likely know Australian attitudes towards the subject than I do.

Your implication that most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people is unevidenced.

Your speculation that I have never been on the receiving end of racism depends on whether you believe racism can happen to people determined to be white.

Metaphor, I have no idea what your personal experiences have been with discrimination in Australia, but I've witnessed enough racism in America for over seven decades, starting from my earliest memories. I did not say that "most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people". That is you putting words in my mouth. I said that they would be happy to leave the barriers in place, because that is what majorities of white Americans have been voting to do in recent elections. The majority of white voters for the past half century have voted Republican, and that is the policy of the Republican Party. (See What About White Voters?). Leaving barriers in place is not the same thing as saying that they wanted to restrict public office to white people. They just don't feel that the barriers are a problem or should be a problem for people in ethnic minorities. Democrats tend to support removing those barriers. That's what all of the hubbub about Critical Race Theory is about, and that is exactly what made Ketanji Brown Jackson face such hostile questions from Republicans during the confirmation hearings.

 

[Copernicus]

I assume there should be no such requirement for black Americans to ape Englishness.

I suspect you know that references to apes and monkeys in connection with black Americans is considered a racial slur, but, just in case you didn't, it is perceived that way. As for behaving like white people, you have absolutely no idea. Those who are light-skinned enough quite often can and do take advantage of it to blend in. Otherwise, there are all sorts of cosmetic products, including especially hair straighteners, skin bleaching, and plastic surgery. Losing a Black English Vernacular accent is another form of trying to assimilate.

 

[Metaphor]

Nobody disputes the fact that Ketanji Brown Jackson's name identifies her likely racial identity and therefore leads people to make assumptions about her on that basis without ever even meeting her. The fact is that race and gender were factors in getting her the nomination during Biden's presidency, but they would have been a factor in preventing her nomination for well over two centuries of American history before now. Ideally, they wouldn't be a factor at all, but reality doesn't work that way.

There are of course people who do not agree that 'ideally', KBJ's ethnicity and sex should not be a factor. They champion the idea that black people and black women in particular should continue to be preferenced for high profile roles.

There are also, of course, white supremacists who would gladly murder her for having assumed such a high profile role. The world is full of all sorts of people. What's your point other than the fact that you appear not to like it when racial discrimination goes against white people? This was a historic Supreme Court appointment precisely because she broke a barrier that most white people were perfectly happy to leave in place.

I don't like racial discrimination for or against anybody.

I am quite sure, however, that in this instance you don't know what 'most' white people want.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on that point. I've lived in America a lot longer than you have, and I've seen the surveys and polls, not to mention elections. The results of that study were not in the least surprising. All you have to go on is TV and movie entertainment. I'll refrain from trying to lecture you on  Racism in Australia. I suspect that you've never been on the wrong end of it, but you likely know Australian attitudes towards the subject than I do.

Your implication that most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people is unevidenced.

Your speculation that I have never been on the receiving end of racism depends on whether you believe racism can happen to people determined to be white.

Metaphor, I have no idea what your personal experiences have been with discrimination in Australia, but I've witnessed enough racism in America for over seven decades, starting from my earliest memories. I did not say that "most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people". That is you putting words in my mouth. I said that they would be happy to leave the barriers in place, because that is what majorities of white Americans have been voting to do in recent elections. The majority of white voters for the past half century have voted Republican, and that is the policy of the Republican Party. (See What About White Voters?). Leaving barriers in place is not the same thing as saying that they wanted to restrict public office to white people. They just don't feel that the barriers are a problem or should be a problem for people in ethnic minorities. Democrats tend to support removing those barriers. That's what all of the hubbub about Critical Race Theory is about, and that is exactly what made Ketanji Brown Jackson face such hostile questions from Republicans during the confirmation hearings.

What barriers did KBJ have?

 

[Copernicus]

What barriers did KBJ have?

Oh, gosh, I couldn't have any idea of all the barriers she faced. We could start with her skin color and her gender, but I suspect you would deny that those were barriers to her. After all, you are so good at putting yourself in the shoes of a black woman.

 

[Metaphor]

What barriers did KBJ have?

Oh, gosh, I couldn't have any idea of all the barriers she faced. We could start with her skin color and her gender, but I suspect you would deny that those were barriers to her. After all, you are so good at putting yourself in the shoes of a black woman.

I suspect her sex and skin colour helped her to get into Harvard rather than hindered her.

 

[ZiprHead]

KJB was preferenced based on her black-ness and woman-ness. That's who the thread is about. And some people think black people, and black women in particular, should continue to be preferenced in the same way she was.

I don't know how obvious Biden could have made it. He said he would look for a black woman.

A black woman who is more qualified than several of those sitting on the court already.

 

[Toni]

Nobody disputes the fact that Ketanji Brown Jackson's name identifies her likely racial identity and therefore leads people to make assumptions about her on that basis without ever even meeting her. The fact is that race and gender were factors in getting her the nomination during Biden's presidency, but they would have been a factor in preventing her nomination for well over two centuries of American history before now. Ideally, they wouldn't be a factor at all, but reality doesn't work that way.

There are of course people who do not agree that 'ideally', KBJ's ethnicity and sex should not be a factor. They champion the idea that black people and black women in particular should continue to be preferenced for high profile roles.

There are also, of course, white supremacists who would gladly murder her for having assumed such a high profile role. The world is full of all sorts of people. What's your point other than the fact that you appear not to like it when racial discrimination goes against white people? This was a historic Supreme Court appointment precisely because she broke a barrier that most white people were perfectly happy to leave in place.

I don't like racial discrimination for or against anybody.

I am quite sure, however, that in this instance you don't know what 'most' white people want.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on that point. I've lived in America a lot longer than you have, and I've seen the surveys and polls, not to mention elections. The results of that study were not in the least surprising. All you have to go on is TV and movie entertainment. I'll refrain from trying to lecture you on  Racism in Australia. I suspect that you've never been on the wrong end of it, but you likely know Australian attitudes towards the subject than I do.

Your implication that most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people is unevidenced.

Your speculation that I have never been on the receiving end of racism depends on whether you believe racism can happen to people determined to be white.

Oh, in the US, there is PLENTY of evidence that A LOT of white people would be much happier if public positions were restricted to white people. I'd invite you to my family reunion for some evidence but we don't have those much any more. I will say that I have steadfastly refused a friend request from a cousin who, for the duration of Obama's tenure as POTUS had a confederate flag superimposed over an image of the White House as his background for his Facebook page. Not good enough? For a very recent example, please view the confirmation hearings of Kentaji Brown Jackson.

Oh yes. So most white people would be happy to have open anti-black discrimination because you know white people who would be happy?

I did not say ‘most’. I said ‘plenty.’

 

[Metaphor]

Nobody disputes the fact that Ketanji Brown Jackson's name identifies her likely racial identity and therefore leads people to make assumptions about her on that basis without ever even meeting her. The fact is that race and gender were factors in getting her the nomination during Biden's presidency, but they would have been a factor in preventing her nomination for well over two centuries of American history before now. Ideally, they wouldn't be a factor at all, but reality doesn't work that way.

There are of course people who do not agree that 'ideally', KBJ's ethnicity and sex should not be a factor. They champion the idea that black people and black women in particular should continue to be preferenced for high profile roles.

There are also, of course, white supremacists who would gladly murder her for having assumed such a high profile role. The world is full of all sorts of people. What's your point other than the fact that you appear not to like it when racial discrimination goes against white people? This was a historic Supreme Court appointment precisely because she broke a barrier that most white people were perfectly happy to leave in place.

I don't like racial discrimination for or against anybody.

I am quite sure, however, that in this instance you don't know what 'most' white people want.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on that point. I've lived in America a lot longer than you have, and I've seen the surveys and polls, not to mention elections. The results of that study were not in the least surprising. All you have to go on is TV and movie entertainment. I'll refrain from trying to lecture you on  Racism in Australia. I suspect that you've never been on the wrong end of it, but you likely know Australian attitudes towards the subject than I do.

Your implication that most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people is unevidenced.

Your speculation that I have never been on the receiving end of racism depends on whether you believe racism can happen to people determined to be white.

Oh, in the US, there is PLENTY of evidence that A LOT of white people would be much happier if public positions were restricted to white people. I'd invite you to my family reunion for some evidence but we don't have those much any more. I will say that I have steadfastly refused a friend request from a cousin who, for the duration of Obama's tenure as POTUS had a confederate flag superimposed over an image of the White House as his background for his Facebook page. Not good enough? For a very recent example, please view the confirmation hearings of Kentaji Brown Jackson.

Oh yes. So most white people would be happy to have open anti-black discrimination because you know white people who would be happy?

I did not say ‘most’. I said ‘plenty.’

And I said most, which came from Copernicus' claim.

 

[Toni]

Nobody disputes the fact that Ketanji Brown Jackson's name identifies her likely racial identity and therefore leads people to make assumptions about her on that basis without ever even meeting her. The fact is that race and gender were factors in getting her the nomination during Biden's presidency, but they would have been a factor in preventing her nomination for well over two centuries of American history before now. Ideally, they wouldn't be a factor at all, but reality doesn't work that way.

There are of course people who do not agree that 'ideally', KBJ's ethnicity and sex should not be a factor. They champion the idea that black people and black women in particular should continue to be preferenced for high profile roles.

There are also, of course, white supremacists who would gladly murder her for having assumed such a high profile role. The world is full of all sorts of people. What's your point other than the fact that you appear not to like it when racial discrimination goes against white people? This was a historic Supreme Court appointment precisely because she broke a barrier that most white people were perfectly happy to leave in place.

I don't like racial discrimination for or against anybody.

I am quite sure, however, that in this instance you don't know what 'most' white people want.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on that point. I've lived in America a lot longer than you have, and I've seen the surveys and polls, not to mention elections. The results of that study were not in the least surprising. All you have to go on is TV and movie entertainment. I'll refrain from trying to lecture you on  Racism in Australia. I suspect that you've never been on the wrong end of it, but you likely know Australian attitudes towards the subject than I do.

Your implication that most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people is unevidenced.

Your speculation that I have never been on the receiving end of racism depends on whether you believe racism can happen to people determined to be white.

Oh, in the US, there is PLENTY of evidence that A LOT of white people would be much happier if public positions were restricted to white people. I'd invite you to my family reunion for some evidence but we don't have those much any more. I will say that I have steadfastly refused a friend request from a cousin who, for the duration of Obama's tenure as POTUS had a confederate flag superimposed over an image of the White House as his background for his Facebook page. Not good enough? For a very recent example, please view the confirmation hearings of Kentaji Brown Jackson.

Oh yes. So most white people would be happy to have open anti-black discrimination because you know white people who would be happy?

I did not say ‘most’. I said ‘plenty.’

And I said most, which came from Copernicus' claim.

Cool. I’m allowed to post in my own words, chose to convey my own meaning.

 

[Metaphor]

Nobody disputes the fact that Ketanji Brown Jackson's name identifies her likely racial identity and therefore leads people to make assumptions about her on that basis without ever even meeting her. The fact is that race and gender were factors in getting her the nomination during Biden's presidency, but they would have been a factor in preventing her nomination for well over two centuries of American history before now. Ideally, they wouldn't be a factor at all, but reality doesn't work that way.

There are of course people who do not agree that 'ideally', KBJ's ethnicity and sex should not be a factor. They champion the idea that black people and black women in particular should continue to be preferenced for high profile roles.

There are also, of course, white supremacists who would gladly murder her for having assumed such a high profile role. The world is full of all sorts of people. What's your point other than the fact that you appear not to like it when racial discrimination goes against white people? This was a historic Supreme Court appointment precisely because she broke a barrier that most white people were perfectly happy to leave in place.

I don't like racial discrimination for or against anybody.

I am quite sure, however, that in this instance you don't know what 'most' white people want.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on that point. I've lived in America a lot longer than you have, and I've seen the surveys and polls, not to mention elections. The results of that study were not in the least surprising. All you have to go on is TV and movie entertainment. I'll refrain from trying to lecture you on  Racism in Australia. I suspect that you've never been on the wrong end of it, but you likely know Australian attitudes towards the subject than I do.

Your implication that most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people is unevidenced.

Your speculation that I have never been on the receiving end of racism depends on whether you believe racism can happen to people determined to be white.

Oh, in the US, there is PLENTY of evidence that A LOT of white people would be much happier if public positions were restricted to white people. I'd invite you to my family reunion for some evidence but we don't have those much any more. I will say that I have steadfastly refused a friend request from a cousin who, for the duration of Obama's tenure as POTUS had a confederate flag superimposed over an image of the White House as his background for his Facebook page. Not good enough? For a very recent example, please view the confirmation hearings of Kentaji Brown Jackson.

Oh yes. So most white people would be happy to have open anti-black discrimination because you know white people who would be happy?

I did not say ‘most’. I said ‘plenty.’

And I said most, which came from Copernicus' claim.

Cool. I’m allowed to post in my own words, chose to convey my own meaning.

I never contested that white people who want official federal discrimination against black people existed.

 

[marc]

How's this for pettiness?

Ted Cruz walks out during applause for Ketanji Brown Jackson - "The moment, which was captured in a video being widely shared on social media, was met with criticism online."

Republicans Walk Out As Ketanji Brown Jackson Confirmed to SCOTUS

• The Senate confirmed Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court on Thursday.
• Video footage showed some GOP senators walking out during applause for her historic confirmation.
• Republican Sen. Mitt Romney stayed in the Senate chamber and joined the applause.

even more petty was Lindsey Graham. He wasn’t in the room at all, voting from the coat room. His excuse was he wasn’t let in because he didn’t meet the dress code, as he didn’t have a tie. But he was interviewed earlier and had a tie then.

 

[Bomb#20]

when I use "USonian" my vocabulary becomes the issue instead of my opinion.

American is correct usage.

Murkin.

No, American. Murkin is far too easily confused with merkin.

It's Bilagaana.

Oh, sorry, that's another Tony.

 

[lpetrich]

Why did multiple Republican senators vote against Jackson from the cloakroom?

Specifically, Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.), and Jerry Moran (R-Kansas) reportedly voted from the Republican cloakroom rather than the Senate floor, while Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) remained noticeably absent. Once Paul surfaced after roughly 15 minutes, he cast his vote from the cloakroom, as well.

Noting
Grace Segers on Twitter: "Time for a very special ~SENATE CHAMBER VIBE CHECK~ for the confirmation vote of Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court" / Twitter

Time for a very special ~SENATE CHAMBER VIBE CHECK~ for the confirmation vote of Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court

The Senate chamber was packed - definitely the fullest I've seen it in a while. There were dozens of people in the visitors gallery. The edges of the chamber were lined with a few dozen members of the Congressional Black Caucus. There was an air of contained excitement. Most every member was ready and seated for the roll call vote. Harris presided over the vote, her husband Doug Emhoff looking on from the gallery. Booker received a laugh from the gallery for his enthusiastic "yes" when his name was called.

Most Republicans were present. Graham waited in the Republican cloakroom, popping his head in only to vote no. He looked to be wearing a blue polo and a blazer - senators are leaving for two weeks - and presumably did not fully enter because of his lack of formal attire. Many Republicans left after casting their vote. All senators had voted but one - Rand Paul. As senators waited, the atmosphere of the room relaxed and became chattier. Senators milled about, saying hello to each other, members of the CBC, and Doug Jones, Jackson's sherpa. After several minutes waiting, Paul popped his head in to give a thumbs down. He was wearing a green windbreaker and, like Graham, did not fully enter the chamber.

Harris's voice grew emotional as she announced the final vote. The room erupted into cheers, with Dems, as well as onlookers, giving a standing ovation. (Romney and Murkowski were the only remaining Republicans to give a standing O as well.) The joy in the room was palpable. Cori Bush jumped up and down, GK Butterfield waved his mask with joy like it were a flag. Several members and onlookers embraced.

A few more tidbits from when we were waiting for Paul:
-Booker and Manchin had a long conversation
-Murkowski came to the Democratic side, was having senators sign a book
-Ossoff had a long chat with Hank Johnson, his former boss
-Sinema chatted with Romney, Cruz, Lee

In conclusion: this was the fullest, and the most joyful, I've seen the chamber be in a long time.

Very revealing about Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, who she was talking to: three Republicans.

 

[lpetrich]

More:
Chad Pergram on Twitter: "From colleague Jason Donner. Graham and Inhofe voted from the cloakroom on Jackson nomination. They poked their heads out and voted thumbs down. They were not dressed in proper attire for Senate floor, which means wearing ties." / Twitter

John Harwood on Twitter: "update from colleagues @alizaslav and @tedbarrettcnn:

Lindsey Graham didn't wear a tie for the occasion of Ketanji Brown Jackson's confirmation to become the 1st black woman on the Supreme Court

that meant he wasn't allowed on the Senate floor and voted "no" from the cloakroom" / Twitter
then
John Harwood on Twitter: "all the more remarkable for the fact that Graham was wearing a tie at a press conference earlier in the day

he took it off" / Twitter

 

[ZiprHead]

Fun fact: While Ketanji Brown Jackson was being confirmed yesterday after enduring heinous pro-pedophilia smears, a former GOP staffer and RNC aide was being sentenced on child porn charges.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Did they actually test for the effects of white/black names, or did they test for the effects of common/strange names?

According to the article, they tested for effects of common names associated with major ethnic groups such as African Americans. They could not have tested for every conceivable minority community in the US, but, if there were a similar effect, it wouldn't have undermined their central finding about the groups they did test for.

The names they used were not common to the average American. Thus this does absolutely nothing to exclude the idea that it's a bias against odd names.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

KJB was preferenced based on her black-ness and woman-ness. That's who the thread is about. And some people think black people, and black women in particular, should continue to be preferenced in the same way she was.

I don't know how obvious Biden could have made it. He said he would look for a black woman.

A black woman who is more qualified than several of those sitting on the court already.

Unfortunately, not much of a bar these days.

 

[Toni]

Did they actually test for the effects of white/black names, or did they test for the effects of common/strange names?

According to the article, they tested for effects of common names associated with major ethnic groups such as African Americans. They could not have tested for every conceivable minority community in the US, but, if there were a similar effect, it wouldn't have undermined their central finding about the groups they did test for.

The names they used were not common to the average American. Thus this does absolutely nothing to exclude the idea that it's a bias against odd names.

I think it depends on what you think of as an average American.

For most people in the US, certain names evoke images of wholesome corn fed all American, often blonde and blue eyed. Kristen, Brett or Brent come to mind. Some names are associated with generations: my firmer workplace hired a woman whose first name was Linda. Her hire was announced a week before we met her and one of my much younger coworkers noted that she must be old: Linda was an old fashioned name associated with the boomer generation. Sure enough, Linda was about 8 years older than I am. Of course, there is the infamous Karen, evoking a privileged white woman of a certain age, with overly done hair. Heidi is a fairly common name among younger (white) women as is Kelly. I knew of zero Liam’s or Ian’s when I was growing up. Now in white middle America, both are common.

In other regions, other names are prevalent and associated with certain groups. People often assumed I was Italian or Catholic or both. Occasionally, going by name only: male. Where I actually grew uo, there were very few Catholics and fewer people of Italian descent.

 

[Bomb#20]

This was a historic Supreme Court appointment precisely because she broke a barrier that most white people were perfectly happy to leave in place.

I don't like racial discrimination for or against anybody.

I am quite sure, however, that in this instance you don't know what 'most' white people want.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on that point. I've lived in America a lot longer than you have, and I've seen the surveys and polls, not to mention elections. The results of that study were not in the least surprising. All you have to go on is TV and movie entertainment. I'll refrain from trying to lecture you on  Racism in Australia. I suspect that you've never been on the wrong end of it, but you likely know Australian attitudes towards the subject than I do.

Your implication that most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people is unevidenced.

Your speculation that I have never been on the receiving end of racism depends on whether you believe racism can happen to people determined to be white.

Metaphor, I have no idea what your personal experiences have been with discrimination in Australia, but I've witnessed enough racism in America for over seven decades, starting from my earliest memories. I did not say that "most white people would be 'happy' for public positions to be restricted to white people". That is you putting words in my mouth. I said that they would be happy to leave the barriers in place,

That is some Thomas Aquinas level hairsplitting. If that's what you're into, well, Metaphor didn't say you said most white people would be happy for public positions to be restricted to white people; he only said you implied it.

because that is what majorities of white Americans have been voting to do in recent elections. The majority of white voters for the past half century have voted Republican, and that is the policy of the Republican Party.

Assumes facts not in evidence. The barrier against black SCOTUS judges and the barrier against female SCOTUS judges were broken decades ago. Your buying into "intersectionality" hypotheses doesn't magically create an additional barrier specifically against black female SCOTUS judges; neither does it make the majority of white voters agree that such an extra barrier is a thing and be happy about it. The circumstance that you equate color-blind practices with leaving racial barriers in place while most white voters equate color-blind practices with eliminating racial barriers does not make maintaining racial barriers either the policy of the Republican Party or something most white voters are happy about.

Democrats tend to support removing those barriers.

The obvious Supreme Court barrier that hasn't ever been broken is the barrier against Asian-Americans. The guy who was happy to leave that barrier in place was Mr. Biden, who chose not to consider Judge Srinivasan for nomination to the Supreme Court on account of his ethnicity.

That's what all of the hubbub about Critical Race Theory is about,

You aren't very good at reading your political opponents' minds. You might want to consider an approach other than imputing to them whatever motivation best helps you feel like a superior life-form.

 

[IIDB Staff]

The derail on racial language has been split and moved to ~elsewhere
This one is about Justice Breyer’s retirement and his replacement