How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[TV and credit cards]

An article in Foreign Policy Magazine hits the nail on the head:

Russia’s Ukraine Propaganda Has Turned Fully Genocidal

Egged on by the language of annihilation and extermination, Russian soldiers have become willing executioners.

foreignpolicy.com

Is this possible or have I just stumbled into conspiracy theorist territory?

Nothing wrong with postulating based on current conditions. Wait too long and we'll be witnessing the evidence in the rearview mirror.

But none of this is Russia specific, is it, these bat-crap crazy beliefs? We laugh at them, we dismiss them but no small segment of society believes this and similar shit. I've yet to hear much about the US fringe right and their thoughts on what is happening in Ukraine but I do worry about it and how their opinions may be shaped.
This is a problem for the world to tackle. This problem is not country specific. In a world where one's reckless voice can be heard by all in an instant, I believe the line where free speech is protected needs another look.

 

[Elixir]

I've yet to hear much about the US fringe right and their thoughts on what is happening in Ukraine but I do worry about it and how their opinions may be shaped.

It feels like they’re waiting for Cheato to mansplain to them how it’s a good idea to back Uncle Vlad’s mass murder campaign in order to save Murka from the demonkrat Nazis.
But Cheato is still focused on relitigating 2020, so that can wait.

 

[steve_bank]

From the news there is wide support for assistance not for direct action.


From the reporting republicans do not think NATO's mission should be an active agent that gets involved in a country to establish democracy. I do not think NATO should be made into a political organization. We see the results of attempted nation building in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Some republicans are against expanding NATO membership. It was said Sweden and Finland are haveing behind the scene talks to pave the way for membership.

63 Republicans vote against House resolution affirming support for NATO and its 'democratic principles'

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week

theweek.com

63 Republicans vote against House resolution affirming support for NATO and its 'democratic principles'​

The House on Thursday evening passed a nonbinding resolution reaffirming its "unequivocal support for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as an alliance founded on democratic principles," and calling on President Biden "to use the voice and vote of the United States to establish a Center for Democratic Resilience within NATO headquarters," to underscore the alliance's "support for shared democratic values and committed to enhancing NATO's capacity to strengthen democratic institutions within NATO member, partner, and aspirant countries."

 

[lpetrich]

Link with original title: Cosponsors - H.Res.831 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Calling on the United States Government to uphold the founding democratic principles of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and establish a Center for Democratic Resilience within the headquarters of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

This resolution reaffirms unequivocal support for the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as an alliance founded on democratic principles.

The resolution also calls on the President to use the voice and vote of the United States to adopt a new Strategic Concept for NATO that is clear about its support for shared democratic values and committed to enhancing NATO's capacity to strengthen democratic institutions within NATO member, partner, and aspirant countries.

Finally, the resolution calls on the President to use the voice and vote of the United States to establish a Center for Democratic Resilience within NATO headquarters.

Introduced by Rep. Gerald Connolly D-VA, the resolution has 36 cosponsors from both parties.

The vote: Roll Call 115 | Bill Number: H. Res. 831
D: Y 219, nv 1
R: Y 143, N 63, nv 3
ttl: Y 362, N 63, nv 4

Voting against it: Andy Biggs AZ, Lauren Boebert CO, Madison Cawthorn NC, Matt Gaetz FL, Louie Gohmert TX, Paul Gosar AZ, MTG GA, Jim Jordan OH

Republican leader Kevin McCarthy CA voted for it, as did anti-Trump Republican Adam Kinzinger IL. Liz Cheney WY was absent.

Every Democrat but an absent one voted for it, including ones like Ilhan Omar and Barbara Lee who are relatively left-wing on foreign policy.

 

[Rhea]

[video titled “owner found”]
More Russian asset stuff.

So who owns it? Don’t make us go watch!

 

[lpetrich]

To find out what the far left has to say, I checked on Communist Party USA – cpusa.org and World Socialist Web Site - Marxist analysis, international working class struggles & the fight for socialism

In articles like The Communist Party’s position on Russia’s war in Ukraine – Communist Party USA and Germany’s war of retribution against Russia - World Socialist Web Site they described the war as not much more than Western imperialism.

Seems like a case of the  Horseshoe theory of politics, where the far left and the far right converge on each other.

 

[barbos]

I see nothing changed here.
That's sad.

 

[Rhea]

Hi barbos. Welcome back. We were worried about you. Glad to see you are okay.

 

[Rhea]

Barbos’ post about weapons prompted me to do some searching. Found this interesting article that explains the Tochka-U

Weapons of the war in Ukraine

From ballistic missiles to armed drones, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is proving the devastating power of modern weaponry.

graphics.reuters.com

Although there’s nothing about anyone blaming the Russians for using it.

 

[barbos]

Although there’s nothing about anyone blaming the Russians for using it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Rhea]

Although there’s nothing about anyone blaming the Russians for using it.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Are you onfused? I said the reuters article did not say anything about the tochka use being blamed on the russians. But it did have interesting info about why the Ukrainians were the ones who were using them. It seemed to imply, of course any use of tochkas is from the Ukrainians.

 

[barbos]

I said the reuters article did not say anything about the tochka use being blamed on the russians.

That's very nice, you should tell that to your president.

 

[Rhea]

I don’t have him on speed-dial.
Wha do you mean?

 

[Rhea]

I need to clarify that the euters article did not say that Ukraine was the only one with those missiles. Only that they were outdated and old and Ukraine had them. They did not explicitly say no one else had them also.

 

[barbos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiwiTtuWA6M
Summary of the videos:
Ukrainiann nazis used Tochka-U in Kramatorsk on their own people (not really, cause it's East Ukraine and people are pro-russian). Russia got rid of these outdated missiles in June 2021.

Next video shows Ukrainian government soldier wearing WW2 nazi SS insignia. Specifically SS division called Galizien. Video is from "The Sun"
And BBC I understand admitted that nazis are good and very useful for democracy.
So no reason to be ashamed of nazis.


Next
Analysis of Bucha incident. There is absolutely no doubt Ukrainians are behinnd it.
1. Russians declare leaving and then leave Bucha
2. Ukrainians enter Bucha
3. Ukrainians officials proclaim hunting down people who were cooperating with russians
4. Bucha Mayor (pro-nazi piece of shit) smiles and says everything is good in Bucha and Ukrainian army won.
5. 4 days (!!!) after russians left and ukrainians (Azov batallion, which is according to you own fucking government is a neo-nazi organization) entered, This story about bodies on streets appears in western press.
6. Bodies have hands tied with white bands (white arm-bands are being used by pro-russian civilians)
7. Russia has absolutely nothing to gain by murdering civilians.



You decide.

 

[barbos]

I need to clarify that the euters article did not say that Ukraine was the only one with those missiles. Only that they were outdated and old and Ukraine had them. They did not explicitly say no one else had them also.

Well, that's called "Lie by omission"
Reuters lied by "forgetting" to mention that Russia does not use/have them anymore. Russia has Iskanders and if, as your stupid theory suggests, they wanted to send a message they would have written "For the children" on Iskander rocket instead of rocket they don't have. They also "forgot" to mention that people killed were for the most part pro-russian. They also forgot to mention prior use of that rocket on civilians in Donetsk.

 

[barbos]

I don’t have him on speed-dial.
Wha do you mean?

I mean someone should take better care of your senile president.

 

[barbos]

Does Zelensky control his nazi?
I've talked about this before. You of course ignored it, because it was not shown on CNN.
This is a recent analysis of that "old" video of Zelensky talking to Azov nazis.
This is right after he was elected, when he tried to do good on his promise to end war in Donbas.


Zelensky is a dead man walking. His immediate circle is filled with Azov/etc informants.
This is a problem for Russia. Russia needs him to be alive to sign surrender or at least some kind of agreement.

 

[zorq]

Summary of the videos:
Ukrainiann nazis used Tochka-U in Kramatorsk on their own people (not really, cause it's East Ukraine and people are pro-russian). Russia got rid of these outdated missiles in June 2021.

Oh, wow, way back in 2021? Really? That is sooooooooo long ago! Oh yeah, there is NO way Russia could possibly have any of those then. I mean how many years is that? Like 100? Oh, wait that isn't even one year. My mistake.

More Russian propaganda. More Russian lies. So gullible.

Next video shows Ukrainian government soldier wearing WW2 nazi SS insignia. Specifically SS division called Galizien. Video is from "The Sun"
And BBC I understand admitted that nazis are good and very useful for democracy.
So no reason to be ashamed of nazis.

Wow, one Ukranian Nazi? We should be soooooo afraid! What does he want that we should be so afraid of? To help protect his country from murdering invaders? Oh, that isn't scary at all. ..? Unless you are a spinless murdering invader.

Are you a murdering invader Barbos?

Next
Analysis of Bucha incident. There is absolutely no doubt Ukrainians are behinnd it.
1. Russians declare leaving and then leave Bucha
2. Ukrainians enter Bucha
3. Ukrainians officials proclaim hunting down people who were cooperating with russians
4. Bucha Mayor (pro-nazi piece of shit) smiles and says everything is good in Bucha and Ukrainian army won.
5. 4 days (!!!) after russians left and ukrainians (Azov batallion, which is according to you own fucking government is a neo-nazi organization) entered, This story about bodies on streets appears in western press.
6. Bodies have hands tied with white bands (white arm-bands are being used by pro-russian civilians)
7. Russia has absolutely nothing to gain by murdering civilians.



You decide.

I have decided that you are a completely biased and gullible consumer of Russian propaganda. I don't think you can spot even the most simple and obvious lies pushed by the Russian government. For years you have shown absolutely no ability to reflect on yourself, how you arrive at your opinions, or the motivations of the Russian government. You have never given me any reason to trust you as an independant thinker.

Who is paying you to peddle this bullshit?

 

[barbos]

Oh, wow, way back in 2021? Really? That is sooooooooo long ago! Oh yeah, there is NO way Russia could possibly have any of those then

Yes, June 2021. The rocket is useless junk compared to Iskander.

I have decided that you are a completely biased and gullible consumer of Russian propaganda.

That's not Russian propaganda. That's british/american journalists talking.
And even if it was, do you have anything which refutes it?
Your reliance on magical "it's russian propaganda!" wand is tiresome.

Wow, one Ukranian Nazi? We should be soooooo afraid!

One? According to ukrainian own estimates "only" 20% of the people of Azov are nazis (the rest are just ordinary convicted criminals)
Again, this is their own accounting. In reality they are all nazis.
If it was just a one guy I doubt Ukrainian presidents would have been naming streets after WW2 nazis.