Roe v Wade is on deck

[TomC]

I personally don't care what she believes (or why), as long as she is allowed to choose, for herself, what she does with her body.

So, what do think about her opinions?

She's an idiot for explaining that personal autonomy begins before pregnancy?

That's what it looks like to me. Feel free to elaborate.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I already reflected on it. Odd that you would make such a bare presumption, when it was already provided.

 

[TomC]

At one point in time, I pretty much agreed with your momma. I was very young and had an idealistic/romantic bent of mind. I knew that I really wanted to have children, and probably a large family.

Funny how things turn out, innit?

I was in high school when the RvW decision was made. I was a voracious reader. I'd read zillions of opinions, across the spectrum of opinions, for a long time. In 1976, I graduated from 12 years of pricey Catholic Academy firmly believing that abortion was a private medical matter. Nobody's business but the woman and her doctor.

Then, a couple of years later, my own child became the issue. Over the course of around a month Judy and I came to the decision that abortion was our best option. We started looking for an abortion clinic(in a pre-internet world that was a tough one!). Then she miscarried. Our immediate problem was resolved.

But I couldn't stop thinking about what had actually happened. We, both of us, had enthusiastically consented to irresponsible sex. Mostly her really, I was a seriously closeted gay dude. But nevertheless, I was there and knew what I was doing.

I couldn't escape the reality. What we had done, up to the miscarriage, was choose sex, then decide to kill our kid because s/he didn't fit into our plans. That's the reality, ugly as it was. Over the course of another month or two, I became pretty hardcore anti-abortion. Believe it or not, the sharp edges of my then world view concerning reproductive morality have been ground off. I'm a whole lot more cognizant of the human reality. I'm a lot less judgemental than I used to be.

I went from Catholic Pro-Choice to non-theist Pro-Life.

Tom

Do I remember correctly that there was never a positive pregnancy test confirming the pregnancy?

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

It’s a nice touch that while you both were ‘enthusiastic’ it was ‘mostly her’ since you are gay, although closeted at the time.

This is the kind of dishonest post I've come to expect from you.

And feminist Wokesters in general.
Tom

How am I being dishonest?

Was there a positive pregnancy test?

By mischaracterization of what I said and making up stuff based on that.

Really, I find your lies and mischaracterization exhausting. But I'm not on staff anymore. You can still say false things about me, as you have done, but I don't have to care about remaining more civil.

 

[Toni]

At one point in time, I pretty much agreed with your momma. I was very young and had an idealistic/romantic bent of mind. I knew that I really wanted to have children, and probably a large family.

Funny how things turn out, innit?

I was in high school when the RvW decision was made. I was a voracious reader. I'd read zillions of opinions, across the spectrum of opinions, for a long time. In 1976, I graduated from 12 years of pricey Catholic Academy firmly believing that abortion was a private medical matter. Nobody's business but the woman and her doctor.

Then, a couple of years later, my own child became the issue. Over the course of around a month Judy and I came to the decision that abortion was our best option. We started looking for an abortion clinic(in a pre-internet world that was a tough one!). Then she miscarried. Our immediate problem was resolved.

But I couldn't stop thinking about what had actually happened. We, both of us, had enthusiastically consented to irresponsible sex. Mostly her really, I was a seriously closeted gay dude. But nevertheless, I was there and knew what I was doing.

I couldn't escape the reality. What we had done, up to the miscarriage, was choose sex, then decide to kill our kid because s/he didn't fit into our plans. That's the reality, ugly as it was. Over the course of another month or two, I became pretty hardcore anti-abortion. Believe it or not, the sharp edges of my then world view concerning reproductive morality have been ground off. I'm a whole lot more cognizant of the human reality. I'm a lot less judgemental than I used to be.

I went from Catholic Pro-Choice to non-theist Pro-Life.

Tom

Do I remember correctly that there was never a positive pregnancy test confirming the pregnancy?

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

It’s a nice touch that while you both were ‘enthusiastic’ it was ‘mostly her’ since you are gay, although closeted at the time.

This is the kind of dishonest post I've come to expect from you.

And feminist Wokesters in general.
Tom

How am I being dishonest?

Was there a positive pregnancy test?

By mischaracterization of what I said and making up stuff based on that.

Really, I find your lies and mischaracterization exhausting. But I'm not on staff anymore. You can still say false things about me, as you have done, but I don't have to care about remaining more civil.

I’m very sincere here: I did not intentionally mischaracterize anything you wrote.

Please tell me what I got wrong.

Also: am I mistaken that when you first wrote ( in some thread I don’t remember) that you and a girlfriend were looking for an abortion but she miscarried that she had not yet had a pregnancy test? I may well have misremembered that. I apologize if I was mistaken about whether or not there was a pregnancy test.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How am I being dishonest?

Was there a positive pregnancy test?

By mischaracterization of what I said and making up stuff based on that.

Really, I find your lies and mischaracterization exhausting. But I'm not on staff anymore. You can still say false things about me, as you have done, but I don't have to care about remaining more civil.

That's okay, you weren't when you were staff either.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I’m very sincere here: I did not intentionally mischaracterize anything you wrote.

Please tell me what I got wrong.

Also: am I mistaken that when you first wrote ( in some thread I don’t remember) that you and a girlfriend were looking for an abortion but she miscarried that she had not yet had a pregnancy test? I may well have misremembered that. I apologize if I was mistaken about whether or not there was a pregnancy test.

TomC's post in question.

 

[TomC]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

I’m very sincere here: I did not intentionally mischaracterize anything you wrote.

Please tell me what I got wrong.

Everything in that previous post was wrong.

Not just a little wrong. You clearly lied about me, attributing things to me when I specifically said differently. Specifically.

For example, I said I was less judgemental than I was back in the day(late 70s). You didn't find that credible, apparently.

Would it interest you to know that, as a hardcore antiabortioist, I drove my younger sister to an abortion clinic? I really didn't want her to do it. But I knew she would go, regardless of my opinion. I didn't want her to go with one of her ditzy teenage girl friends, but I knew she would if I didn't take her. So I did. I wanted her to have someone with her who had more brains than God gave a goose.

You lie about me and mischaracterize me over and over.

Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

I’m very sincere here: I did not intentionally mischaracterize anything you wrote.

Please tell me what I got wrong.

Would it interest you to know that, as a hardcore antiabortioist, I drove my younger sister to an abortion clinic? I really didn't want her to do it. But I knew she would go, regardless of my opinion. I didn't want her to go with one of her ditzy teenage girl friends, but I knew she would if I didn't take her. So I did. I wanted her to have someone with her who had more brains than God gave a goose.

If it makes you feel any better, in Ohio (and 10 other states) now, that'll be against the law, and you wouldn't be able to do that, even if she were raped. And she'd either have a baby she didn't want or take meds she shouldn't take or do other things out of desperation that could get her killed. Hopefully that mends your hurt feelings.

It is a better world now. It has never been better to be a woman!

 

[TomC]

If it makes you feel any better, in Ohio now, that'll be against the law, and you wouldn't be able to do that. And she'd either have a baby she didn't want or take meds she shouldn't take or do other things out of desperation that could get her killed. Hopefully that mends your hurt feelings. It is a better world now.

This is the kind of lies and mischaracterization I've come to expect.


I supported Clinton in 2016 to prevent this sort of nonsensical crap. But the leftists(I use the term "Sanderistas") didn't want that. If they couldn't have what they wanted, they'd vote for Trump and what's happening now.
Vote for Trump in the indirect way maybe. Vote Green, or stay home, whatever...

A few thousand leftist votes for Trump, in states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania is why this is happening. It was a tiny fraction of the electorate, but they were a crucial few thousand.

I really doubt that 2022 will be different, much less 2024. The Woke, firm believers in the culture of entitlement and victimhood, will find reasons to not vote. They'll stay home and Facebook.

Maybe go out for a coffee at Starbucks, where they can share their impotent rage.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

I’m very sincere here: I did not intentionally mischaracterize anything you wrote.

Please tell me what I got wrong.

Everything in that previous post was wrong.

Not just a little wrong. You clearly lied about me, attributing things to me when I specifically said differently. Specifically.

For example, I said I was less judgemental than I was back in the day(late 70s). You didn't find that credible, apparently.

Would it interest you to know that, as a hardcore antiabortioist, I drove my younger sister to an abortion clinic? I really didn't want her to do it. But I knew she would go, regardless of my opinion. I didn't want her to go with one of her ditzy teenage girl friends, but I knew she would if I didn't take her. So I did. I wanted her to have someone with her who had more brains than God gave a goose.

You lie about me and mischaracterize me over and over.

Tom

Nothing you presented is evidence of your serious accusation of lying. What exactly did Toni allegedly lie about? Remember that lying requires someone to know they are misrepresenting the truth.

Without actual substantive evidence, your persistent accusations appear as slander.

 

[Toni]

Interesting that you see yourself as a lot less judgmental than you used to be. When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl. After she miscarried (if a pregnancy had existed), it was easy to change your mind about abortion.

I’m very sincere here: I did not intentionally mischaracterize anything you wrote.

Please tell me what I got wrong.

Everything in that previous post was wrong.

Not just a little wrong. You clearly lied about me, attributing things to me when I specifically said differently. Specifically.

For example, I said I was less judgemental than I was back in the day(late 70s). You didn't find that credible, apparently.

Would it interest you to know that, as a hardcore antiabortioist, I drove my younger sister to an abortion clinic? I really didn't want her to do it. But I knew she would go, regardless of my opinion. I didn't want her to go with one of her ditzy teenage girl friends, but I knew she would if I didn't take her. So I did. I wanted her to have someone with her who had more brains than God gave a goose.

You lie about me and mischaracterize me over and over.

Tom

I don't care that you drove your sister or anyone else to get an abortion even though you are opposed to abortion yourself. I don't care if you were vehemently in favor of your sister getting an abortion. I understand why you would go with your sister, and your concern for her safety and well being. You were being a good big brother.

You say I lie about you all the time. I've gone back and read and re-read and I cannot find any lie. I have pointed out where I saw inconsistencies: You say you are much less judgmental now than then. I questioned that because it doesn't seem that way to me. Obviously I don't know you in real life and I certainly did not know you 40+ years ago so I DON"T KNOW. I never claimed to know. I said it was interesting and pointed out what I see as a consistency.

Aside from that, I quoted your own original post, including the part that the sex was enthusiastic on both your parts but more on hers because you were a closeted gay man. Did I get that wrong? That is what you wrote, right?

We all tell ourselves stories all the time about what we did or did not do, and why; about what we did and did not think or believe and why or why not. We tell ourselves stories about our motivations and feelings and we believe the stories we tell ourselves. Sometimes the stories we tell ourselves make us look better to ourselves. Sometimes, we take on more blame or responsibility in the story than actually belonged to us. We might have been more powerful or less, more informed or less, moved by motivations which were pure or less pure.

When we tell stories to other people, the stories of ourselves or of some incident or another that happened to us, we are relating events as we remember them, through a filter of how we have told those stories to ourselves, perhaps many times over many years. By story, I mean narrative: we are telling events as we remember them, with no intention to deceive or mislead.

Other people might listen to our stories and have questions. Or they might see things from a different perspective and ask about details or events. They might share their impressions. They might see things from exactly your point of view or they might see things differently.


Imagine if someone wrote a story about being a young boy who grew up in a home without much money and food was often scarce. One day there was not even a piece of bread and the little sibling was crying with hunger. On the way home from school, the boy snatched a loaf of bread from a store and took it home so everyone had something to eat. Years later, the boy still feels very guilty because he stole a loaf of bread. He tells this story to his friend, lamenting how dishonest a thief he is.

The friend sees it differently: A young boy with out many chances or resources did the only thing he knew how to do to help his sibling (and himself) who was hungry. The boy wasn't to blame. The blame rightfully belonged to the father who chose to drink his wages rather than buy food for the family and for a system that let the children go hungry because the father had a drinking problem.

You wrote the story using words that you chose. I replied with a different perspective on events you related, using words that you used. That's not lying or mischaracterizing you. That's a person who isn't you hearing what you have to say and seeing it from a different perspective.

Do you want to tell us what you mean by implying that your sister's friend had less brains than God gave a goose?

 

[TomC]

When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl.

Nothing you presented is evidence of your serious accusation of lying. What exactly did Toni allegedly lie about? Remember that lying requires someone to know they are misrepresenting the truth.

I just quoted one of @Toni's many lies about me.

There's many more, this is just one. I said differently. She ignores what I actually did say, mischaracterizes me, lies about my opinions, and the rest of IIDB piles on. Like you.

 

[Patooka]

Do you think they lied? If so, which sentences did they utter that were lies?

Jesus Christ pal. Watch the fucking video. If you think these people weren't misleading, say so and say why. I think they they fucking lied lied because any sane reasonable person would look at the statements they made and assume they wouldn't take Roe v Wade to the chopping block. You seem to disagree, and I am quite interested in your reason as to why.

And then after that, you can explain to me, and just me personally, as to why no one should believe [two US Senators who stated they were misled by these Supreme Court Justices with regards to Roe V Wade.

And just so we are clear, I am not an insufferable pedant. I find the discrepancy between "misled" and "lied" in this context to be a distinction without meaning.

 

[Toni]

When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl.

Nothing you presented is evidence of your serious accusation of lying. What exactly did Toni allegedly lie about? Remember that lying requires someone to know they are misrepresenting the truth.

I just quoted one of @Toni's many lies about me.

There's many more, this is just one. I said differently. She ignores what I actually did say, mischaracterizes me, lies about my opinions, and the rest of IIDB piles on. Like you.

You did NOT seek out an abortion for your girlfriend? Because you wrote:

I was in high school when the RvW decision was made. I was a voracious reader. I'd read zillions of opinions, across the spectrum of opinions, for a long time. In 1976, I graduated from 12 years of pricey Catholic Academy firmly believing that abortion was a private medical matter. Nobody's business but the woman and her doctor.

Then, a couple of years later, my own child became the issue. Over the course of around a month Judy and I came to the decision that abortion was our best option. We started looking for an abortion clinic(in a pre-internet world that was a tough one!). Then she miscarried. Our immediate problem was resolved.

I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you as seeking an abortion if you did not do so.

 

[TomC]

You did NOT seek out an abortion for your girlfriend?

You're being normal here.

It must be the guy, women haven't any agency. You're such a gender bigot.

Don't you understand the word "we"? Judy and I decided this. Together. It was painful.

I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you as seeking an abortion if you did not do so.

Once again, you're a gender bigot with internet access. It wasn't just me, the guy, it was us! We both decided this. We were both seeking an abortion.

Why is it so hard for you, and people like you, to recognize that female humans have agency and priorities and aren't just "weak willed vessels"?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If it makes you feel any better, in Ohio now, that'll be against the law, and you wouldn't be able to do that. And she'd either have a baby she didn't want or take meds she shouldn't take or do other things out of desperation that could get her killed. Hopefully that mends your hurt feelings. It is a better world now.

This is the kind of lies and mischaracterization I've come to expect.


I supported Clinton in 2016 to prevent this sort of nonsensical crap. But the leftists(I use the term "Sanderistas") didn't want that. If they couldn't have what they wanted, they'd vote for Trump and what's happening now.
Vote for Trump in the indirect way maybe. Vote Green, or stay home, whatever...

A few thousand leftist votes for Trump, in states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania is why this is happening. It was a tiny fraction of the electorate, but they were a crucial few thousand.

I really doubt that 2022 will be different, much less 2024. The Woke, firm believers in the culture of entitlement and victimhood, will find reasons to not vote. They'll stay home and Facebook.

Maybe go out for a coffee at Starbucks, where they can share their impotent rage.
Tom

Yes, let's blame the left for people who voted for George W. Bush and Donald Trump to achieve the elimination of Roe v Wade.

 

[lostone]

As an anti-natalist misanthrope, my opinion is that being born in this already over-populated world is a curse, and that being aborted is a blessing. The less of us, the better.

 

[Toni]

You did NOT seek out an abortion for your girlfriend?

You're being normal here.

It must be the guy, women haven't any agency. You're such a gender bigot.

Don't you understand the word "we"? Judy and I decided this. Together. It was painful.

I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you as seeking an abortion if you did not do so.

Once again, you're a gender bigot with internet access. It wasn't just me, the guy, it was us! We both decided this. We were both seeking an abortion.

Why is it so hard for you, and people like you, to recognize that female humans have agency and priorities and aren't just "weak willed vessels"?
Tom

‘You’ can be singular or plural.

I find it interesting that you seem to believe that I don’t think women have agency ( although the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise) and you do, who felt the need to step in and drive his sister to get an abortion because, as you wrote:

I But I knew she would go, regardless of my opinion. I didn't want her to go with one of her ditzy teenage girl friends, but I knew she would if I didn't take her. So I did. I wanted her to have someone with her who had more brains than God gave a goose

So you didn’t trust your sister to responsibly obtain an abortion that she wanted if she went with one of her teenage girlfriends who had less brains than god gave a goose so you, heroic brother, had to step in—although you disapproved. How noble and how totally not sexist and how trusting of women’s agency and having brains to sort things out themselves.

 

[laughing dog]

When you had skin in the game, you were enthusiastically looking for an abortion fir the girl.

Nothing you presented is evidence of your serious accusation of lying. What exactly did Toni allegedly lie about? Remember that lying requires someone to know they are misrepresenting the truth.

I just quoted one of @Toni's many lies about me.

By your own words, your and your girlfriend were going to obtain an abortion. So how is Toni’s post a lie?

There's many more, this is just one. I said differently. She ignores what I actually did say, mischaracterizes me, lies about my opinions, and the rest of IIDB piles on. Like you.

Ir seems to me that the problem is the actual words in your (the words posters base their replies on) do not convey what you mean.

 

[Gospel]

It's possible her friend may have not given TomC a reason to believe she was a responsible person (his sister's friend that is). Why you'd choose to jump to the conclusion that she was (without having met her) is odd.