The predominant factor in black deaths by police is more crimes commited - not racism

[Davka]

I doubt it. Even if I linked to solid evidence that all white police who kill unarmed blacks are racist shits, the racists here would refuse to see it. When i saw this thread, I thought "what fun, yet another desperate attempt to justify racism." And that's really all it is.

Yes, I don't doubt that you thought that. And you didn't look any further before declaring the OP a racist, did you? At least one person is being prejudiced here, that much I can say with confidence.

We're so very pleased that you are able to see into the minds of others.

 

[Davka]

 

[TV and credit cards]

Excerpt from How to debunk false beliefs without having it backfire.

While I believe the underlying premise that people do deny evidence that conflicts with their beliefs, I find it ironic that you would post this while failing to not only disprove, but to even attempt to refute Aluxus' claim. Moreover, you start a thread that racism may very well be the catalyst for the next revolution. You've got sand.

I'm very impressionable. And I very much do not want to believe the data in the op.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Yes, I don't doubt that you thought that. And you didn't look any further before declaring the OP a racist, did you? At least one person is being prejudiced here, that much I can say with confidence.

We're so very pleased that you are able to see into the minds of others.

The irony of your making this statement is delicious.

 

[Davka]

We're so very pleased that you are able to see into the minds of others.

The irony of your making this statement is delicious.

Yeah, right. Someone starts a thread with a classic racism-apologist argument, and pointing it out is mind reading.

Sorry, major fail.

I swear, you clowns act as if blaming black men for getting arrested, imprisoned, shot and killed at a disproportionate rate is a brand-new idea, rather than a tired racist trope.

 

[Axulus]

There's nothing racist about his post, just some inconvenient reality. Pointing out inconvenient reality is not racism.

Racism denial is a form of racism.

If you have nothing to contribute to this thread, please take your anti-intellectual bullshit elsewhere.

 

[Davka]

Racism denial is a form of racism.

If you have nothing to contribute to this thread, please take your anti-intellectual bullshit elsewhere.

I've contributed plenty to your little thread. Go on, please continue blaming black men for all the bad things that have happened to them. You know, if they had only learned to run faster, black men never would have been enslaved in the first place! They have only themselves to blame.

 

[Toni]

Racism denial is a form of racism.

If you have nothing to contribute to this thread, please take your anti-intellectual bullshit elsewhere.

Excuse me: calling what is contained in the links you posted in the OP "full analysis" pretty much disqualifies you from deeming anything from any other poster as 'anti-intellectual bullshit.' Even your own discussion in the OP lacked any actual analysis, rigor or even good basic arithmetic or reasoning. I fail to see how including cursory, ever so lightly fluffed presentation of stats discussed at length on this board and the old one as analysis or thoughtful. How can you not see the blatant racism when you look at claims by those two links:

From the second link:

We haven’t been furnished with the original data by the feds, so we’re relying on secondhand reports from the US media.

And that is what you term "full analysis." I don't think 'fully analysis' means what you think it means.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

 

[maxparrish]

http://assets.amuniversal.com/a14e5fb05c680132b240005056a9545d

"Why are you so polite" and "Are you crazy, don't you know we live in different worlds" is more like "are you crazy, the cartoonist lives in a different world". The cartoonist, apparently suffering the onset of massive color-ethnic blindness 30 years ago, is unaware that the guy behind the counter is usually a third world immigrant, not a white bread American male. And among the 50 (plus) convenience store employees murdered every year, the victims are far more likely to have been those first or second generations from India, Algeria, the Philippines, or the Middle East than Joe DiMaggio America.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/010911/new_767536871.shtml

As for actual black and white youth cooperation, one can do better than your cartoon:

VIRGINIA BEACH -- Police are looking for two suspects who robbed a Virginia Beach convenience store Thursday.

Police say the two armed men stole cash from the Getty Mart on Green Meadows Drive around 8:30 p.m. and ran from the store.

The suspects appear to be wearing the same masks as men involved in two Newport News robberies earlier this week.

The first suspect is described as a white man, 16-22 years old, 5 feet 7 inches tall, about 150 pounds...

The second suspect is described as a black man, 16 – 22 years old, 5 feet 7 inches tall, about 140 pounds...

Yep, its those "evil police" who force white and black collaboration in a different world:

http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news.../convenience-store-robbery-suspects/20314117/

 

[Davka]

Aw, Max, your old-codger-style blindness is so cute.

Actually, it's not. It's just as ugly as ever.

 

[Toni]

"Why are you so polite" and "Are you crazy, don't you know we live in different worlds" is more like "are you crazy, the cartoonist lives in a different world". The cartoonist, apparently suffering the onset of massive color-ethnic blindness 30 years ago, is unaware that the guy behind the counter is usually a third world immigrant, not a white bread American male. And among the 50 (plus) convenience store employees murdered every year, the victims are far more likely to have been those first or second generations from India, Algeria, the Philippines, or the Middle East than Joe DiMaggio America.

I don't understand your point unless you unaware that individuals who are not white Anglo Saxon can be racist.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/010911/new_767536871.shtml

As for actual black and white youth cooperation, one can do better than your cartoon:

VIRGINIA BEACH -- Police are looking for two suspects who robbed a Virginia Beach convenience store Thursday.

Police say the two armed men stole cash from the Getty Mart on Green Meadows Drive around 8:30 p.m. and ran from the store.

The suspects appear to be wearing the same masks as men involved in two Newport News robberies earlier this week.

The first suspect is described as a white man, 16-22 years old, 5 feet 7 inches tall, about 150 pounds...

The second suspect is described as a black man, 16 – 22 years old, 5 feet 7 inches tall, about 140 pounds...

Yep, its those "evil police" who force white and black collaboration in a different world:

http://www.13newsnow.com/story/news.../convenience-store-robbery-suspects/20314117/

And your point is what? Blacks and whites cooperating with one another leads to crime?

 

[laughing dog]

Is the some sort of logical connection here that is unexplained? What does this latter ratio have to do with former ratio?

If a group is involved in ~39% of the violent crime arrests in the country, is it any surprise that this group suffers ~32% of the deaths at the hands of police (link and link)? Is it really that difficult to understand? The ratio I put forth was just another way to present that same data.

That is a rather roundabout method of admitting there is no logical connection between the two statistics.

Not only that, but, according to Athena, the black community mistrusts the police. Mightn't that increase the odds of hostility and resistance with encounters with police for any given encounter (a significant factor in whether or not force is used by the police), further undermining the claims of racism?

It might, then again, it might not. I don't see why anyone would think hostility towards the police should increase the odds of being killed by the police. Professional officers of the state ought to be trained to deal with people who mistrust them so that shooting them is the last resort.

 

[laughing dog]

What does any of this have to do with a twelve year old being shot after a 2 second encounter with police still in their cruiser?

One or two or ten incidents are not generalizable about the country as a whole. I already admitted there is room for improvement in how police departments across the country interact with the citizens, and that there is additional reason to pay attention to how it interacts with the black community. This does not mean that every concern or statement the black community makes is legitimate.

Nor does it make any concern by the black community illegitimate on its face.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is the first time I've heard the first claim.


I agree with the second but this is the effects of past racism, not current racism. Anti-discrimination measures will do nothing about it. Since I'm much more interested in how to fix it than in placing blame the current cause is what I care about.

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I don't know if "unconscious" is the right word but it probably starts here. Many of us don't like to 'get with the program', but you do what you have to do to feed yourself and your family.

I'm reminded of something I heard just last night: "Imagine all the things you want in life. Now imagine yourself in a dress". The setting was 1931 but I think the quote is easily transposed.

I have seen that name bit before but that's not a matter of promotion. Strangely enough it makes no difference who is doing the hiring--which strongly suggests there's some other factor going on. Otherwise you're forced to conclude that blacks are just as racist against blacks as whites are.

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There's nothing racist about his post, just some inconvenient reality. Pointing out inconvenient reality is not racism.

Racism denial is a form of racism.

You're setting up an unfalsifiable position. Unfalsifiable positions aren't worth anything.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Such a study would not produce good data. How an encounter with the police turns out is greatly colored by how the police expect it to go.

That's not a rebuttal. Both sides expectations matter. You can't conclude bias from looking at only one side.

 

[laughing dog]

Such a study would not produce good data. How an encounter with the police turns out is greatly colored by how the police expect it to go.

That's not a rebuttal. Both sides expectations matter. You can't conclude bias from looking at only one side.

Logic fail. The actions and motivations of the party are sufficient to determine bias. For example, if one side says "We are doing these because we are racists SOBS", then one can certainly conclude bias.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, the conviction rates pretty much prove that racism is part of the system. To argue against that, the politically incorrect need to argue that African Americans are less likely to be charged with crimes they didn't commit and thus mostly only guilty African-Americans are asked to defend themselves in court.

These are obviously weak arguments presented by the politically incorrect in a desperate attempt to preserve the injustice of the current system. They do things like this because they believe that whites are inferior and won't be able to compete if the playing field were level. It's the soft bigotry of low expectations, to borrow a phrase.

Oh, and "You must spread some reputation around before giving it to AthenaAwakened again."

Conviction rates are related to SES. Once again you are jumping to the conclusion that it's racism without considering the possibility that race is merely a proxy for SES.

Any study of racism that does not check to see if it's only a proxy for SES isn't worth the electrons it takes to store, let alone the paper to print it on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Racism denial is a form of racism.

Denying you are a witch is a form of witchcraft. This logic is straight out of Salem.

Yup, like denying you are an alcoholic is evidence you have an alcohol problem.


(Never mind the woman that I used to know who was diagnosed as an alcoholic despite being a teetotaler. They latched onto her yes answer to "Have you ever lost friends due to alcohol?" and didn't care about anything else. Note that the question does not specify whose alcohol use--she had lost friends due to their alcohol use.)

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Bad analogy. Every single person who denied practicing witchcraft was 100% correct.

All he is saying is that denial alone does not prove that someone isn't racist, since virtually all racists deny being racist.

Nor does it prove that someone is. But whether someone is or isn't doesn't change facts or reality. It seems that the charge of "racist" is meant to shut down discussion when someone gets uncomfortable with a topic. Ironic to see such behavior on a supposed "Freethought" board.

Yup, just another version of the race card. I'm surprised the ink hasn't worn off how often it's played.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If a group is involved in ~39% of the violent crime arrests in the country, is it any surprise that this group suffers ~32% of the deaths at the hands of police (link and link)? Is it really that difficult to understand? The ratio I put forth was just another way to present that same data.

That is a rather roundabout method of admitting there is no logical connection between the two statistics.

No, this is a very straightforward admission that you don't understand what he's saying.