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Science My transgender hobbyhorse

The problem is girls being forced to choose between holding in their pee and sharing a bathroom with cis boys

So in other words you posted something that has absolutely nothing to do about the thread title or even OP material.

I at least assumed you posted something germane to the topic. That, I think, was my mistake.

Your complaints about poor civil engineering aside, wherein the organization of a single-gender bathroom to prevent these problems is possible, but not quite what those used to designing bathrooms in the US expect, say nothing about whether trans people ought to have some right to transition.

If you wanted to actually be useful, you would pull up the floor plan of those bathrooms and design a solution rather than designing new ways to complain about the failures of those who do things poorly as an excuse to just not do things.
 
The problem is girls being forced to choose between holding in their pee and sharing a bathroom with cis boys

So in other words you posted something that has absolutely nothing to do about the thread title or even OP material.

I at least assumed you posted something germane to the topic. That, I think, was my mistake.

Your complaints about poor civil engineering aside, wherein the organization of a single-gender bathroom to prevent these problems is possible, but not quite what those used to designing bathrooms in the US expect, say nothing about whether trans people ought to have some right to transition.

If you wanted to actually be useful, you would pull up the floor plan of those bathrooms and design a solution rather than designing new ways to complain about the failures of those who do things poorly as an excuse to just not do things.

Why don't you think it's related to the OP? We're talking gender norms here.
 
The problem is girls being forced to choose between holding in their pee and sharing a bathroom with cis boys

So in other words you posted something that has absolutely nothing to do about the thread title or even OP material.

I at least assumed you posted something germane to the topic. That, I think, was my mistake.

Your complaints about poor civil engineering aside, wherein the organization of a single-gender bathroom to prevent these problems is possible, but not quite what those used to designing bathrooms in the US expect, say nothing about whether trans people ought to have some right to transition.

If you wanted to actually be useful, you would pull up the floor plan of those bathrooms and design a solution rather than designing new ways to complain about the failures of those who do things poorly as an excuse to just not do things.

Why don't you think it's related to the OP? We're talking gender norms here.
No, the topic is quite clearly "transgender".

If you wanted to discuss "gender norms" that's its own topic

That is not about transgender. That is about post-gender bathrooms, and the issues created by bad civil engineering.

It says nothing as to whether trans people deserve rights. It only says that a number of civil engineers don't deserve the right to remain civil engineers, or need to go back to school.
 
The problem is girls being forced to choose between holding in their pee and sharing a bathroom with cis boys

So in other words you posted something that has absolutely nothing to do about the thread title or even OP material.

I at least assumed you posted something germane to the topic. That, I think, was my mistake.

Your complaints about poor civil engineering aside, wherein the organization of a single-gender bathroom to prevent these problems is possible, but not quite what those used to designing bathrooms in the US expect, say nothing about whether trans people ought to have some right to transition.

If you wanted to actually be useful, you would pull up the floor plan of those bathrooms and design a solution rather than designing new ways to complain about the failures of those who do things poorly as an excuse to just not do things.

Why don't you think it's related to the OP? We're talking gender norms here.
No, the topic is quite clearly "transgender".

If you wanted to discuss "gender norms" that's its own topic

That is not about transgender. That is about post-gender bathrooms, and the issues created by bad civil engineering.

It says nothing as to whether trans people deserve rights. It only says that a number of civil engineers don't deserve the right to remain civil engineers, or need to go back to school.

The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is. It's in the title of the documentary. So it's absolutely about gender norms. It's the main focus.

Transgenderism is brought up is because (my interpretation) because it highlights a paradox in the progressive narrative.
The postmodern dichotomy states that men and women are the same, and that we only behave differently because how how we have been socialised. If that's true, then what's up with the transgendered? Clearly, to those who are trans, there's different rules for women and men? To them, it's clearly a big deal what gender we are. To the point where they're willing to undergo extensive surgery and are willing to deal with the trauma of taking powerful sex hormones to change those hormones. If gender is just a construct, why go through (what must be a traumatic) nightmare to correct it?

The denial of gender differences of behaviour is like an ongoing bizarre huge conspiracy within the left. I understand where it came from. The evolution of this idea makes perfect sense. What doesn't make sense his how this idea survived into and out of the 1980'ies and keeps going. We have had solid scientific evidence proving behavioural gender differences from before post modern gender theory even became a thing.

In the 1970'ies, in the name of feminism, and introducing women into the workplace on equal footing of men we wanted to believe men and women behaved the same. For some reason this was considered an essential truth if we wanted workplace gender equality. It's not. Now we know it. But now women are a common sight on every level in the workforce. Women are obviously as professionally capable of men without us having to postulate that they behave the same. But we keep going with making this claim.

I suspect it's just the sunk cost fallacy. The left has been saying so long that gender is just a construct that we're hesitant to admit that it's not. It's unfortunately also become an ideological divide. Where claiming gendered behavioral differences is associated with conservatism. Which further makes it harder, within the left, to admit we might have made a mistake.

My position is that claiming that gender is just a construct is an anti-feminist position. Because... by necessity we will need to decide that the correct norm is either male or female, and force the other gender to act the gender they're not, and pretend we're treating everybody fairly. It also makes it impossible to acknowledge gender specific struggles and talk about them. It robs us of the ability to create norms and traditions that help men and women function better together in the work place. I'd argue that those traditions and norms have already been developed and are in full effect. But we're not acknowledging them. These are tacit arrangements that young people starting their careers just have to pick up along the way somehow.

I think it's high time, we in the left, stop putting up with being a part of this gender-is-just-a-construct conspiracy. It's helping nobody any longer. I think it's doubtful it ever helped anyone.
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
 
The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".
Are cow, bull, hen, and rooster "cluster concepts"?
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
Wow. Lol. I guess the documentary nailed it
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
Wow. Lol. I guess the documentary nailed it
"Nailed" what? That liberals know not to apply particular kinds of definitions to particular kinds of problems so as to not engage in particular kinds of fallacious thinking?

Your own definition of woman, in fact the entire concept of "woman" is a cluster concept.

Cluster concepts just do not yield themselves to qualitative declarations.
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
Wow. Lol. I guess the documentary nailed it
"Nailed" what? That liberals know not to apply particular kinds of definitions to particular kinds of problems so as to not engage in particular kinds of fallacious thinking?

Your own definition of woman, in fact the entire concept of "woman" is a cluster concept.

Cluster concepts just do not yield themselves to qualitative declarations.
You're worse than Foucault.

Then don't use qualitative declarations then. Which is generally a good idea because they're a bitch to measure and compare.

I don't think you understand what cluster concepts are. If you try to silence your opposition with fancy words you are hoping we don't understand, it helps if you understand them yourself.
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
Wow. Lol. I guess the documentary nailed it
"Nailed" what? That liberals know not to apply particular kinds of definitions to particular kinds of problems so as to not engage in particular kinds of fallacious thinking?

Your own definition of woman, in fact the entire concept of "woman" is a cluster concept.

Cluster concepts just do not yield themselves to qualitative declarations.
<Ad-hom deleted>.

Then don't use qualitative declarations then. Which is generally a good idea because they're a bitch to measure and compare.

I don't think you understand what cluster concepts are. If you try to silence your opposition with fancy words you are hoping we don't understand, it helps if you understand them yourself.
Seeing as I'm the one who brought up the concept and offered it's definition and limitations near the start of the thread, it's pretty clear you're just here not paying attention.

This is in some schools called a "cluster concept": a concept from a cluster of ideas or examples as center point for an idea

In those same schools, one of which I happened to go to some years ago, we learned right along with the idea of "cluster concepts" what such a cluster concept definition could be used to leverage.

Inappropriate uses of cluster concepts yield themselves to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

It is something that genital format exclusionists, (transphobes) fall into. It's one you are falling into, because one cannot say there is any "true" satisfaction of a cluster concept
And this is because the cluster concept does not derive it's definition from a semantic structure which can give it hard and fast borders, but from examples based on their arbitrary selection of naive grouping.

It's a hint there is something, but the thing is pointedly NOT the cluster concept. So you can't make qualitative statements about it.

"They are a girl" or "they are a boy" are qualitative statements.

At best, they can offer what they are from their own declaration, and you can let that shift the cluster concept.
 
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Oh for the love of god. Women and girls do not feel uncomfortable undressing and peeing in front of men and boys because somebody told them there's something wrong with boys. Do you even know any women?
Oh for the love of god. Women and girls aren't being asked to undress or to pee in front of anybody.

A locked stall in a room that is shared by everyone is a perfectly private space. Have you even seen a bathroom?

Mixed gender bathrooms have been the norm in many places in Europe since bathrooms were invented. The idea that such spaces must be segregated is an odd and twisted offshoot of puritanism.
 
Oh for the love of god. Women and girls do not feel uncomfortable undressing and peeing in front of men and boys because somebody told them there's something wrong with boys. Do you even know any women?
Oh for the love of god. Women and girls aren't being asked to undress or to pee in front of anybody.

A locked stall in a room that is shared by everyone is a perfectly private space. Have you even seen a bathroom?

Mixed gender bathrooms have been the norm in many places in Europe since bathrooms were invented. The idea that such spaces must be segregated is an odd and twisted offshoot of puritanism.
There’s a difference between men and women. Men don’t really care if someone sees them naked. Like, whenever there’s some scandal that celeb nudes pics were hacked/leaked, it’s not seen as embarrassing to male celebs. But for women it’s a violation. So it makes sense that men larping as women, or transwomen, don’t see a problem because they’re simply taking the male point of view.
 
Oh for the love of god. Women and girls do not feel uncomfortable undressing and peeing in front of men and boys because somebody told them there's something wrong with boys. Do you even know any women?
Oh for the love of god. Women and girls aren't being asked to undress or to pee in front of anybody.

A locked stall in a room that is shared by everyone is a perfectly private space. Have you even seen a bathroom?

Mixed gender bathrooms have been the norm in many places in Europe since bathrooms were invented. The idea that such spaces must be segregated is an odd and twisted offshoot of puritanism.
There’s a difference between men and women. Men don’t really care if someone sees them naked. Like, whenever there’s some scandal that celeb nudes pics were hacked/leaked, it’s not seen as embarrassing to male celebs. But for women it’s a violation. So it makes sense that men larping as women, or transwomen, don’t see a problem because they’re simply taking the male point of view.
Have you recently taken a blow to the head?

Every reply you have made recently has the appearance of being a reply to something completely other than what was written.

What part of "Women and girls aren't being asked to undress or to pee in front of anybody" makes you think that a discussion of how much people dislike being seen naked is a relevant response?

Nobody's being seen naked. It matters not one whit whether they are horrified by the very idea, or it's their most favourite thing ever in the whole big wide world.
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
Wow. Lol. I guess the documentary nailed it
"Nailed" what? That liberals know not to apply particular kinds of definitions to particular kinds of problems so as to not engage in particular kinds of fallacious thinking?

Your own definition of woman, in fact the entire concept of "woman" is a cluster concept.

Cluster concepts just do not yield themselves to qualitative declarations.
<Ad-hom deleted>.

Then don't use qualitative declarations then. Which is generally a good idea because they're a bitch to measure and compare.

I don't think you understand what cluster concepts are. If you try to silence your opposition with fancy words you are hoping we don't understand, it helps if you understand them yourself.
Seeing as I'm the one who brought up the concept and offered it's definition and limitations near the start of the thread, it's pretty clear you're just here not paying attention.

This is in some schools called a "cluster concept": a concept from a cluster of ideas or examples as center point for an idea

In those same schools, one of which I happened to go to some years ago, we learned right along with the idea of "cluster concepts" what such a cluster concept definition could be used to leverage.

Inappropriate uses of cluster concepts yield themselves to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

It is something that genital format exclusionists, (transphobes) fall into. It's one you are falling into, because one cannot say there is any "true" satisfaction of a cluster concept
And this is because the cluster concept does not derive it's definition from a semantic structure which can give it hard and fast borders, but from examples based on their arbitrary selection of naive grouping.

It's a hint there is something, but the thing is pointedly NOT the cluster concept. So you can't make qualitative statements about it.

"They are a girl" or "they are a boy" are qualitative statements.

At best, they can offer what they are from their own declaration, and you can let that shift the cluster concept.

The irony here is that you're doing exactly that which the documentary accuses gender sensitive liberals of doing. I think it's just babble. You sound like a Evangelical Christian desperately trying to disprove TOE.
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
Wow. Lol. I guess the documentary nailed it
"Nailed" what? That liberals know not to apply particular kinds of definitions to particular kinds of problems so as to not engage in particular kinds of fallacious thinking?

Your own definition of woman, in fact the entire concept of "woman" is a cluster concept.

Cluster concepts just do not yield themselves to qualitative declarations.
<Ad-hom deleted>.

Then don't use qualitative declarations then. Which is generally a good idea because they're a bitch to measure and compare.

I don't think you understand what cluster concepts are. If you try to silence your opposition with fancy words you are hoping we don't understand, it helps if you understand them yourself.
Seeing as I'm the one who brought up the concept and offered it's definition and limitations near the start of the thread, it's pretty clear you're just here not paying attention.

This is in some schools called a "cluster concept": a concept from a cluster of ideas or examples as center point for an idea

In those same schools, one of which I happened to go to some years ago, we learned right along with the idea of "cluster concepts" what such a cluster concept definition could be used to leverage.

Inappropriate uses of cluster concepts yield themselves to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

It is something that genital format exclusionists, (transphobes) fall into. It's one you are falling into, because one cannot say there is any "true" satisfaction of a cluster concept
And this is because the cluster concept does not derive it's definition from a semantic structure which can give it hard and fast borders, but from examples based on their arbitrary selection of naive grouping.

It's a hint there is something, but the thing is pointedly NOT the cluster concept. So you can't make qualitative statements about it.

"They are a girl" or "they are a boy" are qualitative statements.

At best, they can offer what they are from their own declaration, and you can let that shift the cluster concept.

The irony here is that you're doing exactly that which the documentary accuses gender sensitive liberals of doing. I think it's just babble. You sound like a Evangelical Christian desperately trying to disprove TOE.
Disprove what? You've offered nothing to disprove. You have offered zero actual arguments or objections, just your religion that you can push a cluster concept hard enough to make a border fall out of a median generated from arbitrary examples.
 
The documentary is about contemporary liberals inability to define what a woman is.
Again with the accusations.

No, liberals have no problem defining "woman".

The problem as I pointed out early on is the application of a cluster-concept in conjunction with the No-True-Scotsman fallacy and it's relationship, specifically, to cluster-concepts.

Ok, then. Go for it. Let's hear it.

The documentary then attempts to turn this cluster-concept towards barking that there are "untrue Scotsmen" around because of liberals.

The problem is, of course, that "woman" is a cluster concept so claiming "no-true-woman" of literally anyone who says they are a woman is the same as saying "No-True-Scotsman".

I think you are waffling now. When we describe groups of people, we focus on the differences. That works no matter how much they all have in common.
As I said, this is basic logical reasoning that you seem to be not doing.

It does not matter that your definition does a fairly good job of capturing the differences. It is still fundamentally based on a cluster concept, and cluster concepts cannot be used to say "is not within the boundary" because cluster concepts do not define their boundaries, they only define their centers, and imprecisely.
Wow. Lol. I guess the documentary nailed it
"Nailed" what? That liberals know not to apply particular kinds of definitions to particular kinds of problems so as to not engage in particular kinds of fallacious thinking?

Your own definition of woman, in fact the entire concept of "woman" is a cluster concept.

Cluster concepts just do not yield themselves to qualitative declarations.
<Ad-hom deleted>.

Then don't use qualitative declarations then. Which is generally a good idea because they're a bitch to measure and compare.

I don't think you understand what cluster concepts are. If you try to silence your opposition with fancy words you are hoping we don't understand, it helps if you understand them yourself.
Seeing as I'm the one who brought up the concept and offered it's definition and limitations near the start of the thread, it's pretty clear you're just here not paying attention.

This is in some schools called a "cluster concept": a concept from a cluster of ideas or examples as center point for an idea

In those same schools, one of which I happened to go to some years ago, we learned right along with the idea of "cluster concepts" what such a cluster concept definition could be used to leverage.

Inappropriate uses of cluster concepts yield themselves to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

It is something that genital format exclusionists, (transphobes) fall into. It's one you are falling into, because one cannot say there is any "true" satisfaction of a cluster concept
And this is because the cluster concept does not derive it's definition from a semantic structure which can give it hard and fast borders, but from examples based on their arbitrary selection of naive grouping.

It's a hint there is something, but the thing is pointedly NOT the cluster concept. So you can't make qualitative statements about it.

"They are a girl" or "they are a boy" are qualitative statements.

At best, they can offer what they are from their own declaration, and you can let that shift the cluster concept.

The irony here is that you're doing exactly that which the documentary accuses gender sensitive liberals of doing. I think it's just babble. You sound like a Evangelical Christian desperately trying to disprove TOE.
Disprove what? You've offered nothing to disprove. You have offered zero actual arguments or objections, just your religion that you can push a cluster concept hard enough to make a border fall out of a median generated from arbitrary examples.

"Arbitrary examples" you say. Interesting choice of words.

My argument is that there's nothing about cluster concepts preventing you from using that to define gender. That's just something you made up. It's hand waving. It's a lazy way to not have to make a coherent argument and defend your position.

It's also obviously bullshit. If trans people want to change gender from something to something else, then what is it they want to change? If it's just a "cluster concept", ie random noise, then why bother with the sex hormones? Claiming that trans people only want to change gender because of superficial qualities of gender is awfully superficial... and dare I say... even transphobic.

The fact that there's plenty of human behaviours found both among men and women doesn't mean that, on average, they also always overlap. The "on average" is important here.

But my most serious accusation of your position is the fundamentalism of it. As if that's the only way to define (or rather non-define) gender. There's loads of ways to define gender. But you're so wed to the idea that there's only one valid way to do it, that it makes you come across as a blind fanatic. If we can't agree on singular definitions on what life is, how come you're so cocksure about gender?

 
Oh for the love of god. Women and girls do not feel uncomfortable undressing and peeing in front of men and boys because somebody told them there's something wrong with boys. Do you even know any women?
Oh for the love of god. Women and girls aren't being asked to undress or to pee in front of anybody.

A locked stall in a room that is shared by everyone is a perfectly private space. Have you even seen a bathroom?

Mixed gender bathrooms have been the norm in many places in Europe since bathrooms were invented. The idea that such spaces must be segregated is an odd and twisted offshoot of puritanism.
There’s a difference between men and women. Men don’t really care if someone sees them naked. Like, whenever there’s some scandal that celeb nudes pics were hacked/leaked, it’s not seen as embarrassing to male celebs. But for women it’s a violation. So it makes sense that men larping as women, or transwomen, don’t see a problem because they’re simply taking the male point of view.
Have you recently taken a blow to the head?

Every reply you have made recently has the appearance of being a reply to something completely other than what was written.

What part of "Women and girls aren't being asked to undress or to pee in front of anybody" makes you think that a discussion of how much people dislike being seen naked is a relevant response?

Nobody's being seen naked. It matters not one whit whether they are horrified by the very idea, or it's their most favourite thing ever in the whole big wide world.
 
My argument is that there's nothing about cluster concepts preventing you from using that to define gender
Indeed, and with gender, as per any other cluster concept, there is an expected and correct contraindication on saying "No-True-Scotsman" as it were.

Hence why I don't say such bollocks as "they aren't a _____" with regards to gender.
It's a lazy way to not have to make a coherent argument and defend your position
Says the person in the act of not actually defending a position, because as has been noted all up and down the thread so far, no attempt has been made to apply anything but clearly dysfunctional semantic definitions of "woman" and arbitrary selections leading to cluster concepts.

Neither of these serve your purpose of declaring trans people ought not have access to hormones.

The argument being leveled by the twat referenced in the OP is that trans people ought not be allowed to exist, not be allowed to access hormones because they in particular fail to fall within the imaginary borders of "woman".

"They know it when they see it".

Sure.

How about "don't be a dick, just ask, and accept the answer politely, even if they answer their gender without telling you about their genitals."

The fact that there's plenty of human behaviours found both among men and women doesn't mean that, on average, they also always overlap

This is, quite pointedly, sexism and sex-essentialism.

You however, have not defined anything. You've avoided defining it.

My position has the benefit of letting people define themselves on that field as far as the treatment they recieve from the modes of treatment I offer commonly, and then just doing that.
 
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