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Can Souls In Heaven Help People On Earth?

 
 
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
Imagine Hitler in heaven, spending his time going to the 6 million souls he killed and having to apologize to each one.
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That was Self-Mutation's argument. God would never allow Hitler into Heaven because it would be embarrassing for the Jews in Heaven. An eternity not making eye contact or something like that...
 
Tigers! said:
If our thought processes on heaven were the same as on earth that might apply.
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How do you know the differences between thought processes on earth and heaven? What does that even mean...does it mean that in Heaven there is no empathy for those who suffer, or any desire to alleviate their suffering if it is in your power to help?
 
DBT said:
Tigers! said:
If our thought processes on heaven were the same as on earth that might apply.
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How do you know the differences between thought processes on earth and heaven? What does that even mean...does it mean that in Heaven there is no empathy for those who suffer, or any desire to alleviate their suffering if it is in your power to help?
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Do we lose our humanity, empathy and benevolence on attaining heaven? Or does God remove it from us?
 
Also, do they choose when to watch and when not to watch or are always just aware of what's going on down on Earth and don't have the ability to turn away when their grandkids are masturbating?
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
bilby said:
I guess that depends on whose opinion you accept regarding what is or is not canonical.

Perhaps Superman can simply burn it off by flying into the Earth's yellow sun. Perhaps all Kryptonian condiments were destroyed when the planet exploded, rendering the question moot. Perhaps the whole idea of Krptonian mustard is just silly.

When we ask questions about stories, the answers are dependent only upon whom we accept as a legitimate author, and which authors' work we reject as non-canon. Anyone can author fan-fic, and debates about the validity of any particular part of the complete body of work are futile.
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Why would God make it hard or impossible for souls in heaven to help? Is God mean and spiteful? Does this seem to hold up the concept of God as good and all powerful, or is it yet another example of a Universe that operates without a God?

Canonically, the Bible speaks of a heaven. The nature of heaven unstated as such. My little question is meant to ask some questions that make the idea of heaven seem even more remote and unlikely.
Do you think this might make a few Christians think harder about the nature of God, heaven and the goodness of God?
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You're sort of missing the forest for the trees in Bilby's answer. The point is your answer depends entirely on who you ask and what school of theological thought they come from.
 
Ressurecting a thread - interesting to think about. Yeah, given the theology, can souls in heaven help anyone on earth? And how would they do it?

Tiger’s answer above is interesting - know one knows what heaven would be like. And yet Christians all over the place are absolutley certain that it’s The Best!!
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
How many angels can fit on the head of a pin?
How big is the pinhead?
What kinds of angels?
Is the pinhead in heaven?
Do the angels get to fold in their wings?
4.6 million is the answer, including the ones with just a toe touching, if the angels are in heaven, wings folded.
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You sure? Not 4,600,024 or 4,598,273?
 
Aquinas, Summa Theologica -Supplement Q74
"Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned."

I wrote the original post after some debates on some Catholic blogs far away from here, with many Aquinas groupies on the nature of the goodness of God. Usually I am told I need to read more Aquinas. Which I do. I do not like what I find when I do. Neither do my detractors. The question, can those in heaven help those on Earth, and if not why not is one of those things Aquinas is vague about. But if those in heavan can see those in hell it seems that they can see what is going on on Earth. If not why not? If yes, why can they not intervene? Questions the Aquinas groupies have no answers for. If I was in heaven, unable to act when needed, I would be very unhappy. Iwould have angry words with God.

Sometimes questions that should have answers, but don't, can be powerful questions that debunk theology. What do such questions tell us about the nature of their proposed Christian God? I am told I need to read more sophisticated theology, but I get no answers from these sophisticated theology fans. I do get called a troll. Which is not an answer.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
Aquinas, Summa Theologica -Supplement Q74
"Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned."

I wrote the original post after some debates on some Catholic blogs far away from here, with many Aquinas groupies on the nature of the goodness of God. Usually I am told I need to read more Aquinas. Which I do. I do not like what I find when I do. Neither do my detractors. The question, can those in heaven help those on Earth, and if not why not is one of those things Aquinas is vague about. But if those in heavan can see those in hell it seems that they can see what is going on on Earth. If not why not? If yes, why can they not intervene? Questions the Aquinas groupies have no answers for. If I was in heaven, unable to act when needed, I would be very unhappy. Iwould have angry words with God.

Sometimes questions that should have answers, but don't, can be powerful questions that debunk theology. What do such questions tell us about the nature of their proposed Christian God? I am told I need to read more sophisticated theology, but I get no answers from these sophisticated theology fans. I do get called a troll. Which is not an answer.
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A good example of how Christian theolgy and mythology evolves out of noting. Like fiction writing, called theology.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
Sometimes questions that should have answers, but don't, can be powerful questions that debunk theology. What do such questions tell us about the nature of their proposed Christian God?
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It tells you their god is no different than Gandalf. (Damn, that steve_bank guy beat me to it.) But that's the correct answer.

Problem is these folks think Gandalf is a real person, so the problem isn't with Gandalf or with the god, it's with the person thinking a fictional character is a real person. So when the script doesn't make sense they try to figure it out by writing more script, attempting to bring a fictional story written to teach lessons into the real world where things are open to examination. Honestly, Aquinas isn't a very intelligent person so why would anyone put so much credence into his writings? The answer is because the person who does isn't overly bright themselves. That's my two bits.

Theologians are just fiction readers and writers, seems to me
 
Pope Leo XIII made teaching Aquinas mandatory at Catholic seminaries. Along with other Theolgians. So Aquinas is in effect official Catholic Theology. That is why Aquinas matters. At the several session of The Council Of Trent, the two books on display at the altar were the Bible and Summa Theologica. Reading Aquinas, often Aquinas fails to discuss important subjects. Why can't souls in heaven intervene in Earthly affairs? Why does God allow evil agents to inflict horredous suffering on innocent and good people? I do not think this is an accident. Later in his life, Aquinas had some sort of religious experience. He wrote that all his works were as but straw, and never wrote another word.
 
It's all official Catholic fiction. That's the most important part of the discussion.
 
There's more. I am told haughtily that we are forbidden to have private interpretations of Bible verses. Council Of Trent - Session Four. But the official magesterium avoids many important subjects. There is no oficial magisterium definition of a soul and its nature for example. Or why souls in heavan do not interact with things here on Earth. Not souls or angels even. Or why God does not banish Satan and devils from Earth. And there are many verses in the Bible that are problematic. Numerous promises from God in the prophets God will put his laws and statutes into the hearts and inner most parts of the Israelites. With the Great Commission, God could do so with all mankind. The Magisterium and Aquinas have nothing at all on this subject.

The fun part of all this I keep being told to read Aquinas and the catechisms and sophisticated theologians for answers. I do not find answers just more theological problems.
 
I read a short bio of Aquinas Te Dumb Ox. Not a work of a historian.

Apparently he was a kind of papal troubleshooter. He went around debating those who disagreed with RCC doctrine.
 
Those who read and thought carefully, and saw through the nonsense had to stay silent. Stepping over allowable bounds could get you into very serious trouble with
The inquisition. The first systematic book chamioning atheism in Europe was Jean Messlier's Testament published after his death in 1732.
 
Rhea said:
Ressurecting a thread - interesting to think about. Yeah, given the theology, can souls in heaven help anyone on earth? And how would they do it?

Tiger’s answer above is interesting - know one knows what heaven would be like. And yet Christians all over the place are absolutley certain that it’s The Best!!
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I assume that you meant "no one knows what heaven would be like" rather than "know one knows what heaven would be like"

That is not entirely correct. We are told a little about it but not everything.
I think it was Reinhold Niebuhr who said that said "we do not know the furnishings of heaven or the temperature of hell"
 
Heaven is hotter than hell.

www.physicsforums.com

Heaven is hotter than Hell

It is possible to make an accurate computation of the temperature of Heaven using a physical law called Stefan - Boltzmann law which gives the power radiated from a black body given its temperature. The clue as to the temperature of heaven follows from data available in the bible. Isiah 30:28...
www.physicsforums.com www.physicsforums.com
 
What the bible says about giving aid to those who suffer in Hell.....

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.


22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.

23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’


25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ Luke 16:19-31

I guess the same rules apply to the living.
 
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