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Current Smoking Bans

How are these bans or not bans going in your area?
Classically, the mall is a non-smoking area, which means that to enter the Mall, you have to cross the crowd catching a smoke around the doors. Usually leaning against the 'no smoking in the mall' signs.
 
I like this one: California Smoke-free Cars with Minors Law. I learned of it when my daughter was visiting. I wonder how this super-socialist law would go over in other states? Only a few have it and watered down at that. Only CA is 17 and younger.
Of course it makes perfect sense to me. Any parent that would smoke with their child in the car should not have been allowed to be a parent. At least that's how it works in my super-socialist world.

I like what I saw in the airport in Somewhere, S Korea: 10'x20' plexiglass booths for all the smokers to cram in to. I tried it. I lasted for half a cigarette.

Smoke Free since 1995.
 
How are these bans or not bans going in your area?
it's generally banned all over in Denver, and in the decade since it went into effect probably half (give or take) of the diners in the city have closed as well as many of the more social atmosphere clubs and bars.

personally i think outright smoking bans are a horrible, stupid idea - i mean, in a unilateral sense.
i think any business (or location) that wants to be non-smoking should totally be allowed to be non-smoking... but forcing everywhere to be non-smoking seems as stupid to me as forcing everywhere to be non-alcoholic.
 
How are these bans or not bans going in your area?
it's generally banned all over in Denver, and in the decade since it went into effect probably half (give or take) of the diners in the city have closed as well as many of the more social atmosphere clubs and bars.

personally i think outright smoking bans are a horrible, stupid idea - i mean, in a unilateral sense.
i think any business (or location) that wants to be non-smoking should totally be allowed to be non-smoking... but forcing everywhere to be non-smoking seems as stupid to me as forcing everywhere to be non-alcoholic.

That would be nice if every building were a single business and every business was separated from all other business by about 200 feet or so.

I'm finding there is hope in the banning idea.

Where we live now it rains and winds quite a bit yet non-smoking is the order de jure and it's held up very well for at least 12 years.

While the Mill Casino, a tribe operated place, has smoking in the casino area its hotel and eating areas are smoke free. Those who need a smoke gladly smoke in areas twenty feet or more from entries to these non-smoking places.
 
How are these bans or not bans going in your area?
it's generally banned all over in Denver, and in the decade since it went into effect probably half (give or take) of the diners in the city have closed as well as many of the more social atmosphere clubs and bars.
Really? Wow... We doubled our eating establishments.
 
In Louisiana is now no smoking in all public buildings, except for any place with a liquor license. We have a dual license system, with food and liquor, and liquor only classes. Smoking is not allowed in food and liquor licensees. Recently, the LSU campus went no smoking anywhere on University property. Smokers have to cross the street to be legal.

The real driving force behind these smoking bans is not really health consciousness. When smoking is banned in a building, maintenance costs plunge. This has been seen time an time again, especially in office spaces. The expense of keeping windows and floors clean in a no smoking building is about 1/10 of a smoking facility. This is not an exaggeration. Soap and cleaning chemicals is the single largest expense in office maintenance. Carpet and floor covering is second. When cigarette smoke and cigarette butts are removed from the facility, it means a cost reduction of many thousands of dollars. In a multistory office building, it can be millions. Even tobacco companies can't fight that.
 
How are these bans or not bans going in your area?
it's generally banned all over in Denver, and in the decade since it went into effect probably half (give or take) of the diners in the city have closed as well as many of the more social atmosphere clubs and bars.

personally i think outright smoking bans are a horrible, stupid idea - i mean, in a unilateral sense.
i think any business (or location) that wants to be non-smoking should totally be allowed to be non-smoking... but forcing everywhere to be non-smoking seems as stupid to me as forcing everywhere to be non-alcoholic.

That's not what these reports tell us over two different recent post smoking ban years.

Denver Tops Restaurant Growth Market - Restaurant Brokers Agree
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...aurant-Growth-Market-Restaurant-Brokers-Agree

Restuarant Growth Index http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public factsheets/restaurant-growth-index.pdf
 
it's generally banned all over in Denver, and in the decade since it went into effect probably half (give or take) of the diners in the city have closed as well as many of the more social atmosphere clubs and bars.

personally i think outright smoking bans are a horrible, stupid idea - i mean, in a unilateral sense.
i think any business (or location) that wants to be non-smoking should totally be allowed to be non-smoking... but forcing everywhere to be non-smoking seems as stupid to me as forcing everywhere to be non-alcoholic.

That's not what these reports tell us over two different recent post smoking ban years.

Denver Tops Restaurant Growth Market - Restaurant Brokers Agree
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...aurant-Growth-Market-Restaurant-Brokers-Agree

Restuarant Growth Index http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public factsheets/restaurant-growth-index.pdf

Smoking bans were the best thing that ever happened to restaurants. A friend owns a small diner. It's so small, he didn't have room to create a smoking area in the dining room. He had to go smokeless years before the total ban in restaurants took effect. He was amazed to see his receipts go up. The people who used to finish their meal and then light a cigarette while drinking another cup of free coffee, now paid their check and left. This is the kind of place where people wait for the next available seat, so his turnover went up immediately.
 
I have always thought that it should be legal to have smoking establishments - bars, restaurants, whatever. But these places would need to have big "SMOKING ALLOWED" signs outside, and landlords should have the right to charge extra for a smoking establishment.

If people want to sit in a smoke-filled bar and cough their lungs out, they should have that right. The libertarian in me dislikes the outright ban. I'm pretty sure that what would happen would be that the number of "smoking allowed" establishments would be limited by the market, which pretty much includes only smokers. The majority of places would be non-smoking.

One upside for "smoking allowed" places: they could serve really crappy food and drinks, and nobody would be able to taste the difference. :D
 
I have always thought that it should be legal to have smoking establishments - bars, restaurants, whatever. But these places would need to have big "SMOKING ALLOWED" signs outside, and landlords should have the right to charge extra for a smoking establishment.

If people want to sit in a smoke-filled bar and cough their lungs out, they should have that right. The libertarian in me dislikes the outright ban. I'm pretty sure that what would happen would be that the number of "smoking allowed" establishments would be limited by the market, which pretty much includes only smokers. The majority of places would be non-smoking.

One upside for "smoking allowed" places: they could serve really crappy food and drinks, and nobody would be able to taste the difference. :D

I opened the door of one of my local cigar shops a while back and walked into a cloud of blue smoke. This is a typical cigar store, with the four overstuffed club chairs set up in a small lounge area, and there were four over stuffed cigar smokers, puffing on 55 ring size stubby cigars. I never got the thing about 4 inch cigars, but it's a popular seller. The entire store was filled with this haze, except for the humidor, which is climate controlled and smoking is not allowed inside.

As I paid for my lighter, it occurred to me, if these guys were getting paid to smoke cigars, this store would be an illegal workplace, under OSHA rules.

That's another aspect of the smoking allowances and bans. The toxins in the air of a smoky bar would be illegal in a machine shop and the owner would have to provide employees with protective gear, or improve the ventilation.
 
it's generally banned all over in Denver, and in the decade since it went into effect probably half (give or take) of the diners in the city have closed as well as many of the more social atmosphere clubs and bars.

personally i think outright smoking bans are a horrible, stupid idea - i mean, in a unilateral sense.
i think any business (or location) that wants to be non-smoking should totally be allowed to be non-smoking... but forcing everywhere to be non-smoking seems as stupid to me as forcing everywhere to be non-alcoholic.

That's not what these reports tell us over two different recent post smoking ban years.

Denver Tops Restaurant Growth Market - Restaurant Brokers Agree
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...aurant-Growth-Market-Restaurant-Brokers-Agree

Restuarant Growth Index http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public factsheets/restaurant-growth-index.pdf
i said diners for a reason - could just be a lingo thing, the word 'diner' to me has a specific connotation - places like denny's and perkins and IHOP and such, and those have been closing left and right all over the city area.
(entirely possible that it's an unrelated economic factor, but they all started shutting down after the ban)

coming back to the question of the ban in general and its effects... smokers are less happy, discriminatory non-smokers are more happy, smokers are still smoking just as much, and overall society hasn't changed at all.

now if we can just get all the moral righteousness crusaders to shift their high horses away from smoking to banning alcohol in public places and we'll be making some progress!
 
i said diners for a reason - could just be a lingo thing, the word 'diner' to me has a specific connotation - places like denny's and perkins and IHOP and such, and those have been closing left and right all over the city area.
(entirely possible that it's an unrelated economic factor, but they all started shutting down after the ban)

coming back to the question of the ban in general and its effects... smokers are less happy, discriminatory non-smokers are more happy, smokers are still smoking just as much, and overall society hasn't changed at all.

now if we can just get all the moral righteousness crusaders to shift their high horses away from smoking to banning alcohol in public places and we'll be making some progress!

If the typical alcohol drinker could not resist spilling, splashing, and drooling on everyone in the vicinity, alcohol would have been banned from public places a long time ago.

It's easy to paint this in terms of discrimination, as if an appeal to civil rights consciousness would help the cause. Smoking is hazardous to the smoker and people around the smoker. It's a public hazard and that is why we have governments.

I am a smoker myself, and I'll happily curb my habit in the interest of not harming other people for my enjoyment. It's called being a responsible citizen.

As for Denny's and IHOP, it's an established fact that smoking inhibits the taste. If restaurants are closing, it's not because smokers are avoiding them. It's more likely people can finally taste the food.
 
If the typical alcohol drinker could not resist spilling, splashing, and drooling on everyone in the vicinity, alcohol would have been banned from public places a long time ago.
the typical alcohol drinker can't - it's just the typical alcohol drinker is too fucking drunk to notice - perhaps not necessarily on an individual level, but i've never been in an environment (bar, party, camp fire, back yard, dinner table, you name it) where SOMEONE (or multiple someones) didn't get sloppy stupid drunk and spill booze.
there's also the fact that almost everyone in the country drinks, so there's a strong level of communal delusional bias going on with regards to turning a blind eye to the fact that alcohol is damn well near as damaging (and, i would argue, MORE damaging) than tobacco, and yet while there are some small groups half-heartedly dedicated to regulating or moderating some types of drunken activities, nobody treats booze as the life destroying plague drug that it is.
(and before you come up with some straw man argument about it and try to turn this into you railing against a position you invented for me, i do not support banning alcohol in any form, i'm just not an alcoholic like 90% americans are, so am not blind to its social impact and i find the hypocrisy in the social conversation to be ridiculous)

It's easy to paint this in terms of discrimination, as if an appeal to civil rights consciousness would help the cause. Smoking is hazardous to the smoker and people around the smoker. It's a public hazard and that is why we have governments.
alcohol is hazardous to the drinker and hazardous to the people around the drinker, and yet the idea of banning alcohol or public consumption is utterly absurd to most people.
the rank and blatant hypocrisy that people such as yourself display on this topic is hilarious.

I am a smoker myself, and I'll happily curb my habit in the interest of not harming other people for my enjoyment. It's called being a responsible citizen.
i'm also a smoker and i also have no problem not smoking in public places - that isn't remotely the point, and it has nothing to do with being a responsible citizen.

As for Denny's and IHOP, it's an established fact that smoking inhibits the taste. If restaurants are closing, it's not because smokers are avoiding them. It's more likely people can finally taste the food.
so wait, your argument is that those places only make money because smokers can't taste the food, except now they can taste the food and it's awful so they aren't going there, but they're not losing money due to smokers avoiding them?
i'm sorry, nothing you said here makes the damndest lick of sense.
 
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