The New Testament as a guide for living for atheists

[No Robots]

At its core, Judaism, prophetic Judaism, the Judaism of Christ, is mysticism. And what is mysticism? It is knowledge of the union of the mind with the whole of nature, knowledge of the divine that lives and thinks within us, of which we are an expression. Mysticism has been around since recorded history began. But it has always existed on the margins. In our time, it is moving to the centre of human affairs, becoming the dominant force in advancing the civilization. Those who resist will be left behind.

 

[pood]

At its core, Judaism, prophetic Judaism, the Judaism of Christ, is mysticism. And what is mysticism? It is knowledge of the union of the mind with the whole of nature, knowledge of the divine that lives and thinks within us, of which we are an expression. Mysticism has been around since recorded history began. But it has always existed on the margins. In our time, it is moving to the centre of human affairs, becoming the dominant force in advancing the civilization.

No, it’s not.

 

[No Robots]

At its core, Judaism, prophetic Judaism, the Judaism of Christ, is mysticism. And what is mysticism? It is knowledge of the union of the mind with the whole of nature, knowledge of the divine that lives and thinks within us, of which we are an expression. Mysticism has been around since recorded history began. But it has always existed on the margins. In our time, it is moving to the centre of human affairs, becoming the dominant force in advancing the civilization.

No, it’s not.

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

 

[pood]

At its core, Judaism, prophetic Judaism, the Judaism of Christ, is mysticism. And what is mysticism? It is knowledge of the union of the mind with the whole of nature, knowledge of the divine that lives and thinks within us, of which we are an expression. Mysticism has been around since recorded history began. But it has always existed on the margins. In our time, it is moving to the centre of human affairs, becoming the dominant force in advancing the civilization.

No, it’s not.

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

You said it is moving to the center of human affairs now. Evidence?

 

[TomC]

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

People call it different things, like Armageddon, The Second Coming, and such. The triumph of good and the sweeping away of evil.

It's been in the works for 2000 years or so. I'm not holding my breath.
Tom

 

[No Robots]

At its core, Judaism, prophetic Judaism, the Judaism of Christ, is mysticism. And what is mysticism? It is knowledge of the union of the mind with the whole of nature, knowledge of the divine that lives and thinks within us, of which we are an expression. Mysticism has been around since recorded history began. But it has always existed on the margins. In our time, it is moving to the centre of human affairs, becoming the dominant force in advancing the civilization.

No, it’s not.

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

You said it is moving to the center of human affairs now. Evidence?

One of the most important manifestations of the new era was the radical youth movement of the sixties. This was the opening phase of wide-spread counter-culture activity that continues to grow in our own time. There is some evidence that things are changing in science, David Bohm being an example in physics, and Benoit Mandelbrot an example in mathematics. The failure of life sciences to adequately explain the phenomenon of life and concomitant failure to play a decisive part in the protection of the biosphere is evidence of the need for change.

 

[steve_bank]

I beg to differ. The counter culure was merechdised from the get go.

We a re now more decadent then ever.

The Beatles were the epitome of the consumptive exaggerated wealthy. 'Counter Culture' icons of the anti system and culture became wealthy. Bob Dylan, Mick Jagger, The Grateful Dead.

The 60s ushered in modern pop culture which now dominates. IMO more insidious than Christianity.

 

[No Robots]

The Way has always been merchandised. Just like it's always been wished away by reactionary curmudgeons.

 

[steve_bank]

Yes, merchandising indeed.

Like selling books on the 'true' Christianity and how the world is becoming Jewish?

 

[No Robots]

Yes, merchandising indeed.

Like selling books on the 'true' Christianity and how the world is becoming Jewish?

Who's selling books? They are free.

 

[Learner]

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

People call it different things, like Armageddon, The Second Coming, and such. The triumph of good and the sweeping away of evil.

It's been in the works for 2000 years or so. I'm not holding my breath.
Tom

Unfortunately that notion of "still waiting 2000 years" and as you put it, "still in the works", can be a fawlty perspective of the bible often brought up by atheists. Basically... It's not an argument you can use, IF the conceptual understanding is .. 'NO person' is expected to wait 2000 years to see the second coming.

You see.. the point to remember, 'once we die it's judgement', everyone sees Jesus after death, instantly on Judgement day. So the concept is... If one lives to be 30... that's how long it takes you to see Jesus - but no more than the longest life span that's possible for humans, say, 120 years at the most. And those on the last days still alive will not be 2000 years old, nor would they have waited that long either, stating the obvious. By this understanding and as it's written ... indeed as Jesus said 'the time is at hand'!

 

[DBT]

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

People call it different things, like Armageddon, The Second Coming, and such. The triumph of good and the sweeping away of evil.

It's been in the works for 2000 years or so. I'm not holding my breath.
Tom

Unfortunately that notion of "still waiting 2000 years" and as you put it, "still in the works", can be a fawlty perspective of the bible often brought up by atheists. Basically... It's not an argument you can use, IF the conceptual understanding is .. 'NO person' is expected to wait 2000 years to see the second coming.

You see.. the point to remember, 'once we die it's judgement', everyone sees Jesus after death, instantly on Judgement day. So the concept is... If one lives to be 30... that's how long it takes you to see Jesus - but no more than the longest life span that's possible for humans, say, 120 years at the most. And those on the last days still alive will not be 2000 years old, nor would they have waited that long either, stating the obvious. By this understanding and as it's written ... indeed as Jesus said 'the time is at hand'!

It is clearly stated when the return of Jesus in power and glory was to happen.

 

[Learner]

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

People call it different things, like Armageddon, The Second Coming, and such. The triumph of good and the sweeping away of evil.

It's been in the works for 2000 years or so. I'm not holding my breath.
Tom

Unfortunately that notion of "still waiting 2000 years" and as you put it, "still in the works", can be a fawlty perspective of the bible often brought up by atheists. Basically... It's not an argument you can use, IF the conceptual understanding is .. 'NO person' is expected to wait 2000 years to see the second coming.

You see.. the point to remember, 'once we die it's judgement', everyone sees Jesus after death, instantly on Judgement day. So the concept is... If one lives to be 30... that's how long it takes you to see Jesus - but no more than the longest life span that's possible for humans, say, 120 years at the most. And those on the last days still alive will not be 2000 years old, nor would they have waited that long either, stating the obvious. By this understanding and as it's written ... indeed as Jesus said 'the time is at hand'!

It is clearly stated when the return of Jesus in power and glory was to happen.

You'll have to explain a little more. It makes no difference when it happens.

 

[TomC]

It is clearly stated when the return of Jesus in power and glory was to happen.

New International Version
Matthew 16:28

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

This isn't about afterlife. It's a prophesy about the here and now(in the early 1st century).
Tom

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

/Monty Python voice on/

"He's not coming!"

/Monty Python voice off/

 

[DBT]

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

People call it different things, like Armageddon, The Second Coming, and such. The triumph of good and the sweeping away of evil.

It's been in the works for 2000 years or so. I'm not holding my breath.
Tom

Unfortunately that notion of "still waiting 2000 years" and as you put it, "still in the works", can be a fawlty perspective of the bible often brought up by atheists. Basically... It's not an argument you can use, IF the conceptual understanding is .. 'NO person' is expected to wait 2000 years to see the second coming.

You see.. the point to remember, 'once we die it's judgement', everyone sees Jesus after death, instantly on Judgement day. So the concept is... If one lives to be 30... that's how long it takes you to see Jesus - but no more than the longest life span that's possible for humans, say, 120 years at the most. And those on the last days still alive will not be 2000 years old, nor would they have waited that long either, stating the obvious. By this understanding and as it's written ... indeed as Jesus said 'the time is at hand'!

It is clearly stated when the return of Jesus in power and glory was to happen.

You'll have to explain a little more. It makes no difference when it happens.

An event is described, the return of Jesus in power and glory, for all the tribes on earth to see and mourn, each man to be judged according to their deeds, etc, and a timeframe for that event to happen is given as 'this generation shall not pass, some standing here shall not die before they witness that event....

 

[Learner]

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

People call it different things, like Armageddon, The Second Coming, and such. The triumph of good and the sweeping away of evil.

It's been in the works for 2000 years or so. I'm not holding my breath.
Tom

Unfortunately that notion of "still waiting 2000 years" and as you put it, "still in the works", can be a fawlty perspective of the bible often brought up by atheists. Basically... It's not an argument you can use, IF the conceptual understanding is .. 'NO person' is expected to wait 2000 years to see the second coming.

You see.. the point to remember, 'once we die it's judgement', everyone sees Jesus after death, instantly on Judgement day. So the concept is... If one lives to be 30... that's how long it takes you to see Jesus - but no more than the longest life span that's possible for humans, say, 120 years at the most. And those on the last days still alive will not be 2000 years old, nor would they have waited that long either, stating the obvious. By this understanding and as it's written ... indeed as Jesus said 'the time is at hand'!

It is clearly stated when the return of Jesus in power and glory was to happen.

You'll have to explain a little more. It makes no difference when it happens.

An event is described, the return of Jesus in power and glory, for all the tribes on earth to see and mourn, each man to be judged according to their deeds, etc, and a

Sure that is ONE particular day. No issues there.

timeframe for that event to happen is given as 'this generation shall not pass, some standing her shall not die before they witness that event....

This should also be to Tom C.

Note... shall not die 'before'[...]
Before indicates they will still die. This is NOT the second coming when people are on the contrary being raised from the dead in the Second Coming! Btw.. people saw his ressurection of His 1st coming, if you will.

It's just one verse misinterpreted, you're both trying to rely on, when Revelation says a quite a lotta events have got to take place first before the second coming.

 

[TomC]

Before indicates they will still die.

No it doesn't.
It clearly indicates that the Coming will occur within the lifetimes of the audience.

That Revelation says something else is also quite apparent. Christian scriptures are a mishmash of contradicting assertions. That makes it easy for future followers to make it mean whatever they prefer that it mean.

Like you're doing.
Tom

 

[Learner]

Before indicates they will still die.

No it doesn't.
It clearly indicates that the Coming will occur within the lifetimes of the audience.

What does inserting the 'before" mean ? Where does it clearly state 'second coming' in the verse?

That Revelation says something else is also quite apparent. Christian scriptures are a mishmash of contradicting assertions. That makes it easy for future followers to make it mean whatever they prefer that it mean.

Like you're doing.
Tom

I've seen the very thing "make whatever you want to mean" in your posts TomC.

 

[DBT]

Indeed it is. The hyper-materialist, ultra-analytic, super-critical, uber-skeptic mode is doomed to fade as the new era--integrative, holistic, synthesizing and mystic--takes command of human destiny.

People call it different things, like Armageddon, The Second Coming, and such. The triumph of good and the sweeping away of evil.

It's been in the works for 2000 years or so. I'm not holding my breath.
Tom

Unfortunately that notion of "still waiting 2000 years" and as you put it, "still in the works", can be a fawlty perspective of the bible often brought up by atheists. Basically... It's not an argument you can use, IF the conceptual understanding is .. 'NO person' is expected to wait 2000 years to see the second coming.

You see.. the point to remember, 'once we die it's judgement', everyone sees Jesus after death, instantly on Judgement day. So the concept is... If one lives to be 30... that's how long it takes you to see Jesus - but no more than the longest life span that's possible for humans, say, 120 years at the most. And those on the last days still alive will not be 2000 years old, nor would they have waited that long either, stating the obvious. By this understanding and as it's written ... indeed as Jesus said 'the time is at hand'!

It is clearly stated when the return of Jesus in power and glory was to happen.

You'll have to explain a little more. It makes no difference when it happens.

An event is described, the return of Jesus in power and glory, for all the tribes on earth to see and mourn, each man to be judged according to their deeds, etc, and a

Sure that is ONE particular day. No issues there.

timeframe for that event to happen is given as 'this generation shall not pass, some standing her shall not die before they witness that event....

This should also be to Tom C.

Note... shall not die 'before'[...]
Before indicates they will still die. This is NOT the second coming when people are on the contrary being raised from the dead in the Second Coming! Btw.. people saw his ressurection of His 1st coming, if you will.

It's just one verse misinterpreted, you're both trying to rely on, when Revelation says a quite a lotta events have got to take place first before the second coming.

"Before'' stipulates the sequence of events. That some of those standing there would be alive to witness the described event. That some of those present would not die before the event happens. Which is precisely what the first generation Christians expected.