Mississippi Passes "More Dead Kids Please" bill. Texas responds w/ "hold my beer"

[laughing dog]

Admitted lack of knowledge is not a convincing basis for a position in my view.

Well, no. I’m aware that many European countries have now reversed their position on “gender affirming” mutilation of minors. That’s because the evidence of long-term benefit is lacking. In short, this is all experimental and these children used as guinea pigs.

Applying that reasoning, no improvements in treatment care would ever be adopted.

 

[Oleg]

 

[Oleg]

Admitted lack of knowledge is not a convincing basis for a position in my view.

Well, no. I’m aware that many European countries have now reversed their position on “gender affirming” mutilation of minors. That’s because the evidence of long-term benefit is lacking. In short, this is all experimental and these children used as guinea pigs.

Applying that reasoning, no improvements in treatment care would ever be adopted.

You assume that a child with atypical gender behavior needs “treatment”; why? Perhaps if adults quit lying to them their “dysphoria” will go away.

 

[laughing dog]

Admitted lack of knowledge is not a convincing basis for a position in my view.

Well, no. I’m aware that many European countries have now reversed their position on “gender affirming” mutilation of minors. That’s because the evidence of long-term benefit is lacking. In short, this is all experimental and these children used as guinea pigs.

Applying that reasoning, no improvements in treatment care would ever be adopted.

You assume that a child with atypical gender behavior needs “treatment”; why? Perhaps if adults quit lying to them their “dysphoria” will go away.

Unlike you, I prefer people of any age receive the health care (which includes counselling) they need.

Why do assume that it is not possible some child might actually benefit from gender affirming care?

 

[Emily Lake]

Even though I don't support political intervention in medicine on principle... At the moment, I don't have a good solution. The medical community is over-eager to affirm permanent patients into being, and I think it's being incredibly negligent and harmful. Doctors aren't immune from social pressure, especially when that social pressure presents them with a fat paycheck too.

There is no good solution now because we don’t know enough and probably never will.

I believe if our household had to struggle with this issue, that my wife and I would have pushed to wait.

But I know if she and I were convinced more immediate action was necessary, we’d have resented like hell a ban.

I am also under the impression that gender affirming care includes counselling which may lead to an affirmation to remain the same gender.

All of this leads me to think thoughtful standards is a better policy. Standards as mandatory waiting periods before pharmaceutical or medical intervention, and a requirement of multiple independent diagnoses come to my mind.

That's kind of the problem though - everybody is "under the impression" of how it works, and that impression is a reasonable impression... but it's also wrong.

Jarhyn is pretty insistent that there's a large amount of therapy and counseling that happens way before anyone even considers moving on to hormones or surgery. This is what all of us thing ought to happen, because it's reasonable and rational, and it's what we assume that a well-intentioned medical professional would do. And because that's how it used to work.

But that's now how it is actually working right now, in practice.

For instance... Planned Parenthood offers hormones in many locations. You can get an appointment same day in a lot of areas, and walk out with a prescription in hand. There's no screening, there's no evaluation.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...-therapy/preparing-your-hormone-therapy-visit

PA has a listed requirement that the person be 18 years or older... but there is literally no evaluation, no determination of whether or not the person is actually experiencing gender dysphoria of a degree that needs intervention. They will send you out the door with a prescription the same day.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...er-affirming-care/hormone-therapy-first-visit

In this one, which I believe is in CA, they say:

In most cases your clinician will be able to prescribe hormones the same day as your first visit. No letter from a mental health provider is required.

So the assumptions about the included counseling and mental health support before any discussion of blockers or hormones even starts is just flat out wrong.

 

[laughing dog]

Even though I don't support political intervention in medicine on principle... At the moment, I don't have a good solution. The medical community is over-eager to affirm permanent patients into being, and I think it's being incredibly negligent and harmful. Doctors aren't immune from social pressure, especially when that social pressure presents them with a fat paycheck too.

There is no good solution now because we don’t know enough and probably never will.

I believe if our household had to struggle with this issue, that my wife and I would have pushed to wait.

But I know if she and I were convinced more immediate action was necessary, we’d have resented like hell a ban.

I am also under the impression that gender affirming care includes counselling which may lead to an affirmation to remain the same gender.

All of this leads me to think thoughtful standards is a better policy. Standards as mandatory waiting periods before pharmaceutical or medical intervention, and a requirement of multiple independent diagnoses come to my mind.

That's kind of the problem though - everybody is "under the impression" of how it works, and that impression is a reasonable impression... but it's also wrong.

Jarhyn is pretty insistent that there's a large amount of therapy and counseling that happens way before anyone even considers moving on to hormones or surgery. This is what all of us thing ought to happen, because it's reasonable and rational, and it's what we assume that a well-intentioned medical professional would do. And because that's how it used to work.

But that's now how it is actually working right now, in practice.

For instance... Planned Parenthood offers hormones in many locations. You can get an appointment same day in a lot of areas, and walk out with a prescription in hand. There's no screening, there's no evaluation.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...-therapy/preparing-your-hormone-therapy-visit

PA has a listed requirement that the person be 18 years or older... but there is literally no evaluation, no determination of whether or not the person is actually experiencing gender dysphoria of a degree that needs intervention. They will send you out the door with a prescription the same day.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...er-affirming-care/hormone-therapy-first-visit

In this one, which I believe is in CA, they say:

In most cases your clinician will be able to prescribe hormones the same day as your first visit. No letter from a mental health provider is required.

So the assumptions about the included counseling and mental health support before any discussion of blockers or hormones even starts is just flat out wrong.

Then mandating counselling and mental health support would be an example of a good standard.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm substituting my direct experience with a doctor who knew fuck-all about my niece and still prescribed her testosterone after having spent 30 minutes with her.

Were you in the room with the niece and the physician? Your niece may have been much more honest with the doctor than she was with you. She may have been fully aware of your anti-trans views so she hid her feelings from you.

I don't have an anti-trans view, ZiprHead.

Apparently she hid her "true and honest feelings" from her mother and from her transgender sibling for her entire fucking life, as well as from everyone else in our family... But this "specialist" was able to "confirm" that all of her problems are because she's trans within a whopping 30 minutes.

Seriously, you don't know me, you don't know my family, and you sure as fuck don't know my niece - where do you get off dropping such insulting rhetoric as if you're somehow the expert on this shit? What gives you any reason at all to make the insinuation that I don't know the niece I've been around my entire fucking life... but you, some nobody on the internet, you know better and I'm just a nasty transphobe?

Don't use the tragedy of my niece's situation as some sort of twisted pawn in a game you play on the internet.

You don't seem to be much of an expert on the situation too. You're the one that said psychologists hand out drugs. I wonder what else you got wrong about the situation and how is your niece's personal life is any of your business.

 

[ZiprHead]

Always a treat to see someone use a fake news site to make an argument.

 

[ZiprHead]

But that's now how it is actually working right now, in practice.

For instance... Planned Parenthood offers hormones in many locations. You can get an appointment same day in a lot of areas, and walk out with a prescription in hand. There's no screening, there's no evaluation.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...-therapy/preparing-your-hormone-therapy-visit

PA has a listed requirement that the person be 18 years or older... but there is literally no evaluation, no determination of whether or not the person is actually experiencing gender dysphoria of a degree that needs intervention. They will send you out the door with a prescription the same day.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...er-affirming-care/hormone-therapy-first-visit

No screening? No evaluation? From your own link.

All services are confidential (except in cases of abuse), so being open with the clinician will ensure that you are receiving the best health care. When you are called back to meet with the clinician you may be requested to provide a complete medical history, as well as a history of your sexuality and sexual practices in order for us to provide the best care.

You may consult with one of our clinicians and receive a physical assessment and lab testing as appropriate for monitoring hormones and your transition.

 

[Oleg]

Always a treat to see someone use a fake news site to make an argument.

 Satire

 

[ZiprHead]

Always a treat to see someone use a fake news site to make an argument.

 Satire

The Babylon Bee's motto is "Fake news you can trust."

 

[laughing dog]

Always a treat to see someone use a fake news site to make an argument.

 Satire

I think you misspelled stupid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You must not have children. They are incredibly impressionable. If a parent, adult, or peer lies to them, that their ackwardness or quirks means they're in the wrong body, or that they can change their birth sex, the child will not know it is a lie. And irreparable harm may result.

If lying to them is so bad why do you want to do it??

You would have a point if they were living in a world where most everyone was trans (or homosexual for that matter), but when there is diversity there won't be a problem.

Why do detransitioners exist, anyway? And why do trans activists scorn them?

Mostly because fundies bully them too much.

But why are you so interested in a child's sexuality? Indeed, why is any adult interested in a child's sexuality? Leave the kids alone.

You're the one obsessing about it, trying to force them into your mold rather than allowing them to develop naturally.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Exactly. The social acceptance of homosexuality doesn't give me the slightest desire to have sex with another man. The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give me the slightest desire to be a woman.

The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give you the slightest desire to be a woman. Therefore the social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give some socially excluded adolescent girl the slightest desire to be a boy? One's own tendencies are not necessarily a reliable predictor of other people's tendencies.

Why would it make her want to be a boy?

It could push her to take up male pursuits, but the result of that is a tomboy, not a transman.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And how do we know they didn't?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Admitted lack of knowledge is not a convincing basis for a position in my view.

Well, no. I’m aware that many European countries have now reversed their position on “gender affirming” mutilation of minors.

Claim uncited.

That’s because the evidence of long-term benefit is lacking.

Building off uncited claim with another uncited claim.

In short, this is all experimental and these children used as guinea pigs.

Conclusion built off of nothing but uncited claims that are nothing less that baseless presumptions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And how do we know they didn't?

The Babylon Bee... continuing proof that conservatives just aren't as good (or even good) at satire. And this is even bad by their standards. Soldiers in WWI weren't diagnosed with PTSD, rather they were executed. So does PTSD not exist as we know it back as we know it now, or were those soldiers simply cowards?

 

[Oleg]

Always a treat to see someone use a fake news site to make an argument.

 Satire

I think you misspelled stupid.

Wow. This really hit a nerve.

 

[Oleg]

And how do we know they didn't?

Oh, yes. I forgot. Back in the Eighties, Tipper Gore didn't blame heavy metal music for teen suicide. No. It was because the teens couldn't change their sex. Derp.

 

[laughing dog]

Always a treat to see someone use a fake news site to make an argument.

 Satire

I think you misspelled stupid.

Wow. This really hit a nerve.

You’ll survive.