George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

[EPresence2]

How do you know what Martin was thinking? He only had the right to use force IF he felt in danger of bodily harm or death. Why would he fear that in a gated community?

Because some random dude jumped out of his car and chased him down the street.

That one's obvious.

Really, show me the evidence GZ jumped out of the car, chased TM down, and attempted to detain him?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Once again, no evidence of pounding.

Once again, downward motion of arms and wounds on back the head consistent with a pounding.

Black eyes, bruises on the face are indications of taking a beating. The cuts on the back of his head have an unknown origin. That there wasn't a lot of blood on the concrete he was allegedly getting his head smashed on, would indicate his head wasn't being slammed on concrete.

 

[EPresence2]

Extreme? What is so extreme about it? It is exactly the same scenario that Martin faced. Martin was followed behind the buildings by a man who refused to identify himself or let him know his intent.

TM was not a woman being cornered in a dark alley.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because some random dude jumped out of his car and chased him down the street.

That one's obvious.

Really, show me the evidence GZ jumped out of the car, chased TM down, and attempted to detain him?

Oh yeah... keeping an open mind there.

He got out of his car... armed with a gun. He then met up with Martin. Zimmerman claims Martin jumped him from no where. There is no evidence to suggest that ever happened.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

From Wikipedia:
In Florida, stand-your-ground law states that an individual has no duty to retreat from any place they have lawful right to be and may use any level of force, including lethal, if they reasonably believe they face an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death.

Martin had the right to use force in this situation.

How do you know what Martin was thinking? He only had the right to use force IF he felt in danger of bodily harm or death. Why would he fear that in a gated community?

A man was stalking him. Men rape other men. Men beat up and rob other men. Men stalk and kill other men. The gated community was not actively gated. He could go to the store to get his purple dank ingredients and come back without going through a guarded gate.

 

[EPresence2]

Once again, downward motion of arms and wounds on back the head consistent with a pounding.

Black eyes, bruises on the face are indications of taking a beating. The cuts on the back of his head have an unknown origin. That there wasn't a lot of blood on the concrete he was allegedly getting his head smashed on, would indicate his head wasn't being slammed on concrete.

Let me guess, you think he gave himself the wounds?

Nice back and forth people - thanks! I'm still not convinced of your preferred scenario yet, but it has been informative. I'm saying this because I won't be able to get on (post) again for a while.

 

[coloradoatheist]

How do you know what Martin was thinking? He only had the right to use force IF he felt in danger of bodily harm or death. Why would he fear that in a gated community?

A man was stalking him. Men rape other men. Men beat up and rob other men. Men stalk and kill other men. The gated community was not actively gated. He could go to the store to get his purple dank ingredients and come back without going through a guarded gate.

Not high priorities on a 17 year old male. Fearing that he was a narc would be much higher on his list.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Extreme? What is so extreme about it? It is exactly the same scenario that Martin faced. Martin was followed behind the buildings by a man who refused to identify himself or let him know his intent.

TM was not a woman being cornered in a dark alley.

My scenario never had the woman cornered. Martin was a teenaged boy. Why would Martin have cause to trust a man that refused to identify himself?

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A man was stalking him. Men rape other men. Men beat up and rob other men. Men stalk and kill other men. The gated community was not actively gated. He could go to the store to get his purple dank ingredients and come back without going through a guarded gate.

Not high priorities on a 17 year old male. Fearing that he was a narc would be much higher on his list.

Yeah right. Narcs hide out on the street trying to catch Black teens.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Black eyes, bruises on the face are indications of taking a beating. The cuts on the back of his head have an unknown origin. That there wasn't a lot of blood on the concrete he was allegedly getting his head smashed on, would indicate his head wasn't being slammed on concrete.

Let me guess, you think he gave himself the wounds?

I'm just saying that scalp wounds bleed a torrent of blood. If his weren't, then they could have been a little worse than tears from getting his head pushed down.

Nice back and forth people - thanks! I'm still not convinced of your preferred scenario yet, but it has been informative. I'm saying this because I won't be able to get on (post) again for a while.

Of course you aren't convinced, you think Zimmerman was in the right, you are just wasting our time pretending otherwise.

 

[Deepak]

I'm sure that the answer will be consistent with EPresence2's daughter, sister, or mother playing the part of Martin.

Except they don't look like the suspect involved in previous criminal activity in the neighborhood. Analogy fail.

You mean they don't look like niggers?

This is seething bullshit. No one who is being followed on a rainy night by some persistent stranger would think to check the police blotter to identify whether they fit the description of 'suspects'. By his own admission GZ didn't identify himself when he encountered TM. Something is seriously broken with an individual's self-preservation section of their cortex if they are not afraid of GZ-like behaviour on that night.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Except they don't look like the suspect involved in previous criminal activity in the neighborhood. Analogy fail.

You mean they don't look like niggers?

This is seething bullshit. No one who is being followed on a rainy night by some persistent stranger would think to check the police blotter to identify whether they fit the description of 'suspects'. By his own admission GZ didn't identify himself when he encountered TM. Something is seriously broken with an individual's self-preservation section of their cortex if they are not afraid of GZ-like behaviour on that night.

and that's what Zimmerman said of Martin that night, he was acting like somebody should at night and then rain and that he stood out.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

 

[Deepak]

You mean they don't look like niggers?

This is seething bullshit. No one who is being followed on a rainy night by some persistent stranger would think to check the police blotter to identify whether they fit the description of 'suspects'. By his own admission GZ didn't identify himself when he encountered TM. Something is seriously broken with an individual's self-preservation section of their cortex if they are not afraid of GZ-like behaviour on that night.

and that's what Zimmerman said of Martin that night, he was acting like somebody should at night and then rain and that he stood out.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.

 

[coloradoatheist]

and that's what Zimmerman said of Martin that night, he was acting like somebody should at night and then rain and that he stood out.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.

Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

- - - Updated - - -

TM was not a woman being cornered in a dark alley.

My scenario never had the woman cornered. Martin was a teenaged boy. Why would Martin have cause to trust a man that refused to identify himself?

- - - Updated - - -

A man was stalking him. Men rape other men. Men beat up and rob other men. Men stalk and kill other men. The gated community was not actively gated. He could go to the store to get his purple dank ingredients and come back without going through a guarded gate.

Not high priorities on a 17 year old male. Fearing that he was a narc would be much higher on his list.

Yeah right. Narcs hide out on the street trying to catch Black teens.

Normally no. But we weren't sure of what Martin was thinking that night. We can only speculate on what happened at 7-11 prior to what happened.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A man was stalking him. Men rape other men. Men beat up and rob other men. Men stalk and kill other men. The gated community was not actively gated. He could go to the store to get his purple dank ingredients and come back without going through a guarded gate.

Not high priorities on a 17 year old male. Fearing that he was a narc would be much higher on his list.

Of course, this does cut both ways. If he thought he was a Narc, why didn't he run away? If he thought Zimmerman was out to hurt him, why didn't he run away?

He tried to evade initially, and from the alleged phone conversation, it sounded as if Zimmerman caught up to where Martin was and a scuffle ensued. It'd seem more likely that Martin didn't think the guy was a Narc, otherwise, he would have bolted. The context from the conversation on the phone is that Martin wanted to know what the heck this guy's problem was. Heck, maybe Martin threw the first punch (though Zimmerman says Martin jumped out from no where). Or Zimmerman tried to put a hand on Martin, which led to Martin throwing a punch, or possibly just pushing Zimmerman, who fell backwards and onto the ground.

What we do know is that Zimmerman doesn't have wounds consistent with a serious attack. We do know Zimmerman's mindset based on the 911 call. Most of Martin's mindset is unknown and based solely on the alleged phone conversation, which if true, puts Zimmerman in trouble over the whole being ambushed by Martin claim. Zimmerman's behavior after the shooting was one of a sociopath. It was like he had killed a mosquito.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Normally no. But we weren't sure of what Martin was thinking that night. We can only speculate on what happened at 7-11 prior to what happened.

Or we could ask the clerk who said nothing was unusual... but was he drugged or in fear of retaliation?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was using "break contact" in this context--getting out of threat, not physical contact.

It's interesting that by using that term you confirm Zimmerman was a threat to Martin, and that Martin was right to view him that way. But why apply it to this situation, when neither Zimmerman nor Martin was engaged in a military action? And even if your use of a military term to describe the actions of two civilians is appropriate, how would Martin have known when he got to a place where Zimmerman couldn't shoot him? Martin suspected Zimmerman wasn't stationary, and he was right about that, too.

Zimmerman was a threat to Martin--if the cops showed up Martin's identity was exposed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Normally no. But we weren't sure of what Martin was thinking that night. We can only speculate on what happened at 7-11 prior to what happened.

Oh man, I had forgotten about the "Martin hid his stash argument" where Martin hides his stash... and instead of disappearing with it, he goes to confront a Narc. Oh goodness, there was some classic Zimmerman Fan Fic.

It's interesting that by using that term you confirm Zimmerman was a threat to Martin, and that Martin was right to view him that way. But why apply it to this situation, when neither Zimmerman nor Martin was engaged in a military action? And even if your use of a military term to describe the actions of two civilians is appropriate, how would Martin have known when he got to a place where Zimmerman couldn't shoot him? Martin suspected Zimmerman wasn't stationary, and he was right about that, too.

Zimmerman was a threat to Martin--if the cops showed up Martin's identity was exposed.

Wah? That'd he be exposed as Nick Fury?

 

[Deepak]

A man was stalking him. Men rape other men. Men beat up and rob other men. Men stalk and kill other men. The gated community was not actively gated. He could go to the store to get his purple dank ingredients and come back without going through a guarded gate.

Not high priorities on a 17 year old male. Fearing that he was a narc would be much higher on his list.

This is a joke right? Nothing was discovered on Martin's corpse or anywhere at the crime scene that would make him fear a narc.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.

Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

Looking at transcripts of the call to the non-emergency number we know that GZ's assessment was idiotic. More to the point, his decision to follow TM was idiotic. And not identifying himself when they encountered each other was idiotic.

TM fearing GZ in that encounter would be a natural and rational reaction.

 

[Mumbles]

It's interesting that by using that term you confirm Zimmerman was a threat to Martin, and that Martin was right to view him that way. But why apply it to this situation, when neither Zimmerman nor Martin was engaged in a military action? And even if your use of a military term to describe the actions of two civilians is appropriate, how would Martin have known when he got to a place where Zimmerman couldn't shoot him? Martin suspected Zimmerman wasn't stationary, and he was right about that, too.

Zimmerman was a threat to Martin--if the cops showed up Martin's identity was exposed.

His "Identity"? What are you talking about? By all accounts, he was simply walking home from the store. That was his "Identity" - a teen who went to the store, bought some snacks, and then started walking back when some fool began chasing him.

You're talking about him like he was Bruce Wayne or something.