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George Zimmerman Arrested On Domestic Violence And Weapons Charge

Not high priorities on a 17 year old male. Fearing that he was a narc would be much higher on his list.

This is a joke right? Nothing was discovered on Martin's corpse or anywhere at the crime scene that would make him fear a narc.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.


Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

Looking at transcripts of the call to the non-emergency number we know that GZ's assessment was idiotic. More to the point, his decision to follow TM was idiotic. And not identifying himself when they encountered each other was idiotic.

TM fearing GZ in that encounter would be a natural and rational reaction.

The argument has been what Martin was going to use the ingredients for, and second there was discussion that Martin tried to buy a cigar which then somebody else bought for him at 7/11. And one of the side effects of pot is paranoia.
 
Normally no. But we weren't sure of what Martin was thinking that night. We can only speculate on what happened at 7-11 prior to what happened.

Well, no, there was a released video of that. Martin picked up a couple of items, paid for them, picked up what appeared to be a stray coin, and then left the store.

But again, this is all an aside. You really have to strain to get away from the idea that Zimmerman was the aggressive idiot in that case, or in his several counts of domestic violence since then.
 
Not high priorities on a 17 year old male. Fearing that he was a narc would be much higher on his list.
Of course, this does cut both ways. If he thought he was a Narc, why didn't he run away? If he thought Zimmerman was out to hurt him, why didn't he run away?

He tried to evade initially, and from the alleged phone conversation, it sounded as if Zimmerman caught up to where Martin was and a scuffle ensued. It'd seem more likely that Martin didn't think the guy was a Narc, otherwise, he would have bolted. The context from the conversation on the phone is that Martin wanted to know what the heck this guy's problem was. Heck, maybe Martin threw the first punch (though Zimmerman says Martin jumped out from no where). Or Zimmerman tried to put a hand on Martin, which led to Martin throwing a punch, or possibly just pushing Zimmerman, who fell backwards and onto the ground.

What we do know is that Zimmerman doesn't have wounds consistent with a serious attack. We do know Zimmerman's mindset based on the 911 call. Most of Martin's mindset is unknown and based solely on the alleged phone conversation, which if true, puts Zimmerman in trouble over the whole being ambushed by Martin claim. Zimmerman's behavior after the shooting was one of a sociopath. It was like he had killed a mosquito.

Don't understand that. Z reports that Martin eyeballs him which is also consistent with wondering if he is a narc and then Martin takes off running and Z tries to find where he went. Except if M had run home or tried to run home Z wouldn't have ambushed him. From where the fight took place, there wouldn't have been a spot where Z couldn't see Martin if he wasn't hiding. So it would have been M who ambushed Z.
 
This is a joke right? Nothing was discovered on Martin's corpse or anywhere at the crime scene that would make him fear a narc.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.


Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

Looking at transcripts of the call to the non-emergency number we know that GZ's assessment was idiotic. More to the point, his decision to follow TM was idiotic. And not identifying himself when they encountered each other was idiotic.

TM fearing GZ in that encounter would be a natural and rational reaction.

The argument has been what Martin was going to use the ingredients for, and second there was discussion that Martin tried to buy a cigar which then somebody else bought for him at 7/11. And one of the side effects of pot is paranoia.

Again, what are you taking about? What cigar? Ingredients for what? And how can someone be "paranoid", when anther person is chasing them?

This argument simply does not make sense.

"Hey, someone pulled his car over, and got out and chased me!"

"Well, don't be paranoid!"

That argument's absurd. We know that Zimmerman targeted Martin, without reason. The claim that Martin was "paranoid" makes no sense at all.
 
This is a joke right? Nothing was discovered on Martin's corpse or anywhere at the crime scene that would make him fear a narc.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.


Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

Looking at transcripts of the call to the non-emergency number we know that GZ's assessment was idiotic. More to the point, his decision to follow TM was idiotic. And not identifying himself when they encountered each other was idiotic.

TM fearing GZ in that encounter would be a natural and rational reaction.

The argument has been what Martin was going to use the ingredients for, and second there was discussion that Martin tried to buy a cigar which then somebody else bought for him at 7/11. And one of the side effects of pot is paranoia.

Again, what are you taking about? What cigar? Ingredients for what? And how can someone be "paranoid", when anther person is chasing them?

This argument simply does not make sense.

"Hey, someone pulled his car over, and got out and chased me!"

"Well, don't be paranoid!"

That argument's absurd. We know that Zimmerman targeted Martin, without reason. The claim that Martin was "paranoid" makes no sense at all.

Except that wasn't it. M saw that Z was watching him, approached and tried to figure out what he was. And then started running, Z got out of the car to see where he went running to. So your saying just seeing someone sitting in a car in a neighborhood is enough to think that he's going to rape me so I need to start running?
 
Except that wasn't it. M saw that Z was watching him, approached and tried to figure out what he was. And then started running, Z got out of the car to see where he went running to. So your saying just seeing someone sitting in a car in a neighborhood is enough to think that he's going to rape me so I need to start running?

Um...

I don't know how to reply. This doesn't seem to have any attachment to reality. It's obvious that Martin only approached Zimmerman because Zimmerman parked his car directly in Martin's path when Martin was walking home. It's pretty clear that Martin only ran because Zimmerman started stalking Martin in his car.

So, yet again - what are you talking about?

ETA: and let's say that Martin ran away from Zimmerman. Okay, so what? Shouldn't Zimmerman just keep driving to Target?
 
Except that wasn't it. M saw that Z was watching him, approached and tried to figure out what he was. And then started running, Z got out of the car to see where he went running to. So your saying just seeing someone sitting in a car in a neighborhood is enough to think that he's going to rape me so I need to start running?

Um...

I don't know how to reply. This doesn't seem to have any attachment to reality. It's obvious that Martin only approached Zimmerman because Zimmerman parked his car directly in Martin's path when Martin was walking home. It's pretty clear that Martin only ran because Zimmerman started stalking Martin in his car.

So, yet again - what are you talking about?

ETA: and let's say that Martin ran away from Zimmerman. Okay, so what? Shouldn't Zimmerman just keep driving to Target?


The first part yes, the second part is speculation by both are parts.
 
This is a joke right? Nothing was discovered on Martin's corpse or anywhere at the crime scene that would make him fear a narc.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.


Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

Looking at transcripts of the call to the non-emergency number we know that GZ's assessment was idiotic. More to the point, his decision to follow TM was idiotic. And not identifying himself when they encountered each other was idiotic.

TM fearing GZ in that encounter would be a natural and rational reaction.

The argument has been what Martin was going to use the ingredients for, and second there was discussion that Martin tried to buy a cigar which then somebody else bought for him at 7/11. And one of the side effects of pot is paranoia.

Even if Martin were totally stoned, GZ had no right to stop him and then to murder him.
 
I've never been involved with drug culture as a seller or user, however even if I were both I would not fear a "narc" if I didn't have drugs in my system or on my person at the time of encountering who I thought might be a narc. Nor would I be afraid if I had common junk food items that could be used in conjunction with drugs because the fact they're common junk food items means I have strong plausible deniability of my using them for drug use.
 
Martin "might've been" or "probably was" or "likely felt" or "would've run,"

Meanwhile
Zimmerman DID say, he DID do he DID have a record of and he HAS continued to,


Be we should probably say the best of Zimmerman and assume the worst of the other guy, because...


No "because." I can't think of any reason why a thoughtful person would promote the maybes that might justify over the certains that don't justify. No reasonable reason at all. I don't get it and I can't wrap my head or my heart around the hate and fear exuding from the statements made about this case. It blows my mind and hurts my heart. Peace out.

 
Zimmerman was a threat to Martin--if the cops showed up Martin's identity was exposed.


His "Identity"? What are you talking about? By all accounts, he was simply walking home from the store. That was his "Identity" - a teen who went to the store, bought some snacks, and then started walking back when some fool began chasing him.

You're talking about him like he was Bruce Wayne or something.

:hysterical:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mumbles again.
 
Martin "might've been" or "probably was" or "likely felt" or "would've run,"

Meanwhile
Zimmerman DID say, he DID do he DID have a record of and he HAS continued to,


Be we should probably say the best of Zimmerman and assume the worst of the other guy, because...


No "because." I can't think of any reason why a thoughtful person would promote the maybes that might justify over the certains that don't justify. No reasonable reason at all. I don't get it and I can't wrap my head or my heart around the hate and fear exuding from the statements made about this case. It blows my mind and hurts my heart. Peace out.


You know damn well why anyone would make excuses for what Zimmermann did.

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This is a joke right? Nothing was discovered on Martin's corpse or anywhere at the crime scene that would make him fear a narc.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.


Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

Looking at transcripts of the call to the non-emergency number we know that GZ's assessment was idiotic. More to the point, his decision to follow TM was idiotic. And not identifying himself when they encountered each other was idiotic.

TM fearing GZ in that encounter would be a natural and rational reaction.

The argument has been what Martin was going to use the ingredients for, and second there was discussion that Martin tried to buy a cigar which then somebody else bought for him at 7/11. And one of the side effects of pot is paranoia.

Even if Martin were totally stoned, GZ had no right to stop him and then to murder him.

If random citizens aren't free to murder snack-purchasing teens, then we will all be less free. Why do you hate our freedom?

- - - Updated - - -

This is a joke right? Nothing was discovered on Martin's corpse or anywhere at the crime scene that would make him fear a narc.

It might be because English is a second language for me, but I'm not able to make heads or tails of this sentence.


Zimmerman called the police because Martin wasn't acting like what he thought a person should be acting like on that night.

Looking at transcripts of the call to the non-emergency number we know that GZ's assessment was idiotic. More to the point, his decision to follow TM was idiotic. And not identifying himself when they encountered each other was idiotic.

TM fearing GZ in that encounter would be a natural and rational reaction.

The argument has been what Martin was going to use the ingredients for, and second there was discussion that Martin tried to buy a cigar which then somebody else bought for him at 7/11. And one of the side effects of pot is paranoia.

Again, what are you taking about? What cigar? Ingredients for what? And how can someone be "paranoid", when anther person is chasing them?

This argument simply does not make sense.

"Hey, someone pulled his car over, and got out and chased me!"

"Well, don't be paranoid!"

That argument's absurd. We know that Zimmerman targeted Martin, without reason. The claim that Martin was "paranoid" makes no sense at all.

Except that wasn't it. M saw that Z was watching him, approached and tried to figure out what he was. And then started running, Z got out of the car to see where he went running to. So your saying just seeing someone sitting in a car in a neighborhood is enough to think that he's going to rape me so I need to start running?

So if I stalk someone, then they start to run away, then I run after them and start a fight, then I can kill them?

Where do you live?
 
You are now seeing what happens lies bounce around an echo chamber long enough. People forget that they themselves stated something as speculation and when they hear the echo later, they believe it as truth coming from a source outside of themselves.

If you go back to the "Skittles" thread, you could probably trace the beginnings of these little gems:

The argument has been what Martin was going to use the ingredients for, and second there was discussion that Martin tried to buy a cigar which then somebody else bought for him at 7/11. And one of the side effects of pot is paranoia.

Don't understand that. Z reports that Martin eyeballs him which is also consistent with wondering if he is a narc and then Martin takes off running and Z tries to find where he went. Except if M had run home or tried to run home Z wouldn't have ambushed him. From where the fight took place, there wouldn't have been a spot where Z couldn't see Martin if he wasn't hiding. So it would have been M who ambushed Z.

Except that wasn't it. M saw that Z was watching him, approached and tried to figure out what he was. And then started running, Z got out of the car to see where he went running to. So your saying just seeing someone sitting in a car in a neighborhood is enough to think that he's going to rape me so I need to start running?​
 
Show me where I claimed one or the other side was actually correct. I'll bet you can't find it. And if you do find it, I take it back ;)

At no time have you entertained the possibility that everything Martin did was a reasonable reaction to the fear of being chased in the dark by a stranger. You say, "maybe he got pissed" you say, "maybe he turned and beat down" to perhaps "teach him a lesson." But at no time in any post of yours that I can find do you offer the benefit of the possibility that Martin was defending himself reasonably. Not once.

That is how I conclude that you have come down on one side over the other.

At no point ever in any of your comments do you ever suggest that Martin was correct to defend himself from a thug. It's actually the most probably scenario that fits the evidence, but you don't even accept it as possible, let alone probable. You fail to - even once - list "reasonable self-defense" as a possible motive for Martin, and when anyone else brings it up, you fail to answer. You posit, _either_ Zimmerman was correct to follow or Martin got angry/pissed and retaliated. But you do not include the possibility of reasonable self- defense. Not sure why. Everything that happened to Martin was on the way home. Everything that Zimmerman did was out of his way to follow.
crjq - spot on exactly
 
Here is the trouble. The first scenario is incomplete and somewhat irrelevent. We know Zimmerman was stalking Martin in his vehicle. We know Zimmerman got out of the vehicle and went to continue following Martin. Martin has a right to self-defense. Someone is going to lengths to follow him. This is fact. This isn't in dispute. Just some people want to pretend it isn't relevant.

Your second scenario only becomes active once Zimmerman identifies himself and explains what is going on. Zimmerman never claims he did this.
I think you are mischaracterizing the scenarios. The primary difference is who started the physical altercation that escalated - not who was following whom. I wasn't disputing that GZ was following TM. I sense the mischaracterization train getting up steam again.
That is not the primary difference. That is the point that Zimmerman defenders always want to focus on though.

Zimmerman - with a gun - was stalking Trayvon. He had no business doing that, so even IF Trayvon "started the physical altercation" he had every right to do so in self-defense. An armed creeper was stalking him!

But I don't think the evidence shows that Trayvon started anything. He was on the phone with Jentel when Zimmerman appeared and did something that caused Trayvon to drop his phone. We don't need to be physic to surmise what really happened - Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon with the intent to hold Trayvon until the police arrived.
 
Okay, I understand some people have a problem understanding the differences between similarly defined words, such as "self-defense" and "lethal self-defense". But you'll just need to take our word for it... the difference is big enough that the statement you made is incorrect.

And of course, there is the whole... not suffering much in the way of actual injuries from the "ground and pound" beat down that Zimmerman claimed to be receiving.
There was abundant physical evidence of a ground pounding and no injuries on Martin other than the gunshot wound.

A boo-boo on Zimmerman's head was not evidence of a "ground and pound" nor anything resembling a beat down so severe as to be in fear for one's life.

But thanks for again showing the bias in favor of Zimmerman that you claim you don't have.
 
C'mon, ColoradoAtheist. Give us your name, home address, and a picture. I'm pretty sure any of us can recreate the circumstances in which you find killing morally acceptable.
 
He needed the police to detain, unless he was truly that stupid.

1) Zimmerman is truly that stupid
2) Zimmerman imagines himself to be a cop/hero

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I'm sure that the answer will be consistent with EPresence2's daughter, sister, or mother playing the part of Martin.
Except they don't look like the suspect involved in previous criminal activity in the neighborhood. Analogy fail.

Neither did Trayvon... Unless all blacks look alike to you.

The burglars had already been arrested, and Zimmerman knew it.
 
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