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Libertarians set up freedom checkpoints

yet most libertarian vote Republican.

Prove your claim.

I think it's safe to say that whatever ideology there is to libertarianism, it doesn't have much meaning to most libertarians.

Prove your claim.

It's the rightist equivalent of "progressive." It's just a self-label for people who are embarrassed to identify as conservatives.

You're not going to convince libertarians to join you in voting for Republicans by pretending there are no differences.

Well, that and libertarians want to return to a stratified society.

Prove your claim.

If you've ever read an Ayn Rand novel, the rich are the only ones that matter, while workers are nameless, faceless, and powerless beings who never complain no matter how they are treated.

James Taggart and Orren Boyle were rich. Jeff Allen and Cherryl Brooks were poor.

All libertarianism is a neofeudalist fantasy in which a new aristocracy arises to rule over the undeserving masses.

Prove your claim.

You might convince progressives that libertarians are actually conservatives with your Poe act, but you won't convince any libertarians. All you're doing is insulting the people who you feel betrayed you by not voting Republican.
 
It would actually look like a discussion if you demonstrated other than Underseer claimed before you spouted 'prove it'.

Just one so far and that from a 2010 CATO analysis: http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/libertarian-vote-age-obama

Still its way more than you've done so far.

He's the one making absurd claims about libertarians, he should have to prove his claim. It's called "burden of proof", something conservatives generally avoid. But let's take a look at you trying to support Underseer's claim.

From the article:

In 2004 libertarians swung away from Bush, anticipating the Democratic victories of 2006. In 2008, according to new data in this paper, libertarians voted against Barack Obama.

In 2004 libertarians were anti-Bush, in 2008 libertarians were anti-Obama. That proves they consistently vote Republican, because the singular of "trend" is "instance."
 
It would actually look like a discussion if you demonstrated other than Underseer claimed before you spouted 'prove it'.

Just one so far and that from a 2010 CATO analysis: http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/libertarian-vote-age-obama

Still its way more than you've done so far.

Even if we look only at the claimed ideologies, both libertarians and conservatives clearly want to establish an overclass of rich people and large corporations to rule over us. Does it really matter whether or not pot is legal once the new aristocracy is entrenched in its power?
 
Even if we look only at the claimed ideologies, both libertarians and conservatives clearly want to establish an overclass of rich people and large corporations to rule over us. Does it really matter whether or not pot is legal once the new aristocracy is entrenched in its power?

I don't think libertarians actually want this. The problem is that their policies would lead to this anyway. For an example see Cliven Bundy and his private army.
 
It would actually look like a discussion if you demonstrated other than Underseer claimed before you spouted 'prove it'.

Just one so far and that from a 2010 CATO analysis: http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/libertarian-vote-age-obama

Still its way more than you've done so far.

Even if we look only at the claimed ideologies, both libertarians and conservatives clearly want to establish an overclass of rich people and large corporations to rule over us. Does it really matter whether or not pot is legal once the new aristocracy is entrenched in its power?

Would you care to prove that libertarians want to join you in the establishment of an overclass of rich people and large corporations?

Actually, would you care to ever prove any of the claims you make? Even one of them?
 
He's the one making absurd claims about libertarians, he should have to prove his claim. It's called "burden of proof", something conservatives generally avoid. But let's take a look at you trying to support Underseer's claim.

From the article:

In 2004 libertarians swung away from Bush, anticipating the Democratic victories of 2006. In 2008, according to new data in this paper, libertarians voted against Barack Obama.

In 2004 libertarians were anti-Bush, in 2008 libertarians were anti-Obama. That proves they consistently vote Republican, because the singular of "trend" is "instance."

See. Had you even one citation we've be having a discussion now rather me showing your failure to do so on the basis of 'burden of proof' and things wold have livened up.

Evidence free discussions are easy to fix. I just did it. Agreed?

So instead of responding to your information I responded to your assertion and the effects of the information you brought up were probably lost forever. Agreed again?
 
It would actually look like a discussion if you demonstrated other than Underseer claimed before you spouted 'prove it'.

Just one so far and that from a 2010 CATO analysis: http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/libertarian-vote-age-obama

Still its way more than you've done so far.

Even if we look only at the claimed ideologies, both libertarians and conservatives clearly want to establish an overclass of rich people and large corporations to rule over us. Does it really matter whether or not pot is legal once the new aristocracy is entrenched in its power?

Would you care to prove that libertarians want to join you in the establishment of an overclass of rich people and large corporations?

Actually, would you care to ever prove any of the claims you make? Even one of them?

Again I ask you to ask yourself why do libertarians go to the polls? Do they want to just sit idly outside a Seven Eleven and drink beer and wine from brown bags or do they want to do stuff with property? If its property do they want to make money or do they want to contribute it to the public as parks? If they contribute it as parks do they want to get something in return or do they just want to feel good?

I think you can see where this is going so I won't extend the train any further.
 
He's the one making absurd claims about libertarians, he should have to prove his claim. It's called "burden of proof", something conservatives generally avoid. But let's take a look at you trying to support Underseer's claim.

From the article:

In 2004 libertarians swung away from Bush, anticipating the Democratic victories of 2006. In 2008, according to new data in this paper, libertarians voted against Barack Obama.

In 2004 libertarians were anti-Bush, in 2008 libertarians were anti-Obama. That proves they consistently vote Republican, because the singular of "trend" is "instance."

See. Had you even one citation we've be having a discussion now rather me showing your failure to do so on the basis of 'burden of proof' and things wold have livened up.

Evidence free discussions are easy to fix. I just did it. Agreed?

So instead of responding to your information I responded to your assertion and the effects of the information you brought up were probably lost forever. Agreed again?

The article that was offered as proof shows that libertarians are not consistent with either party. Underseer's claim, which you tried to support, was that libertarians are consistent supporters of the Republicans. The first line of your offered proof contradicted Underseer's assertion.

Moreover in the details of the article you find further contradictions, this time with their methodology. It amounts to "These people do not refer to themselves as libertarians, but I the test conductor consider them libertarians. These people who I consider libertarians voted Republican, thereby proving that libertarians vote Republican." Do you see a problem with that methodology?

I'll show you the problem with that methodology. I hereby, as a thought experiment, temporarily define everyone on this board as a libertarian. In 2008 and in 2012 a majority of the members of this board favored Obama over McCain or Romney respectively, and of those that could vote in those elections and also bothered to vote in those elections a majority voted for Obama. That proves that the libertarians of this board consistently favor Democrats.

The problem is, now that the thought experiment is over, is that a majority of the people on this board wouldn't self-define as libertarians. So what does my thought experiment prove? As much as the CATO article does.

See, since you're doing Underseer's job, we are able to dissect the nature of the supporting information. We found it wasn't very good, but we were able to do so. Which is more than Underseer has ever done because, as a conservative, he not only knows that libertarians don't vote Republican, he is actually very angry at libertarians for not voting Republican.

So, why do libertarians go to the polls? We know our candidate won't win, but we go there anyway. You probably define our actions as "wasted time", "throwing away our vote", and other such bromides. But the only way to send the message "this is what we want the government to do" is to vote for the candidate that most closely represents our views. And as the data shows, that's not the Republicans.

So now answer this question - why would a Republican in California or a Democrat in Texas go to the polls?
 
Once again, I recommend everybody familiarized themselves with the Sovereign Citizen movement. The could be called libertarian only in the fact they strive to not recognize government control, but their actual philosophy is one of warlord/feudalism in practice.

Yeah, they are nothing like libertarians.

Unfortunately, many kooks pretend to be libertarian. It doesn't make them so.
 
What does that say about libertarians if kooks find it easy to blend in with them?
 
The kooks don't blend in. They stand out. In fact, the kooks are so noticeable that at first glance it can look like libertarians are all kooks.
 
The kooks don't blend in. They stand out. In fact, the kooks are so noticeable that at first glance it can look like libertarians are all kooks.

It's very noticeable to those of us who actually have a libertarian bent. A lot of people don't really understand what libertarians are about and thus it's not so obvious to them.
 
The kooks don't blend in. They stand out. In fact, the kooks are so noticeable that at first glance it can look like libertarians are all kooks.

It's very noticeable to those of us who actually have a libertarian bent. A lot of people don't really understand what libertarians are about and thus it's not so obvious to them.

Actually, it's very noticeable to those who have actually have met a libertarian. That excludes many on this board.
 
Wow.

The first line of your offered proof contradicted Underseer's assertion.


No it didn't. Evidence can be found below in complete article. You could have clicked on the whole article in the citation I gave you to find it is a meta survey of surveys over time and not anything personal. "The Libertarian Vote in the Age of Obama" http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa658.pdf where you'd find tht when they said turn away from republicans they actually were saying reducing the libertarian majority vote for republicans (see Tables two and three in the article).

Aren't you getting tired of generating your own rational thought experiments and doing the sycophants work of twisting stuff you can then make another straw man? When I ask for input I'm asking for input independent of you or what you read of mine. Its called independent research. To wit: You say you think the CATO institute article is a personal essay that employed personal data to arrive at conclusions?

So now answer this question - why would a Republican in California or a Democrat in Texas go to the polls?

Why vote? Local Issues. Local issues can be more important in these states than state issues in states like Washington or Georgia, a lot more important than in states like Nebraska and New Mexico and unbelievably more important than in states like North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, Delaware, Rhode Island, or Vermont.

I believe most people convince themselves they are mainstream so they go to the polls time after time to vote for losing issues only to remain convinced they are mainstream. To wit: congress approval rating.

Now to return the favor.

Why are Republicans so proud they have control of most of the low population states where most of the libertarian representatives and senators can be found? Do they actually believe we are charted to vote by acre?

Have they no idea that a state like CA has more people in each of, what is it, thirty-six districts than there are in the states of Wyoming or Alaska.

My view is that what are called libertarians are not such really. They're actually objectivarians. Putting Rand's ideology side by side with Libertarian talking points and we have a match.

From Rand site: Introduction to Objectivism http://www.aynrand.org/ideas/overview

From libertarian site: The libertarian philosophy





I couldn't find a paper thickness' difference.

They are both saying that freedom is that freedom to make money. All other decisions about society should include an accountant to insure wealth can be measured.
 
The kooks don't blend in. They stand out. In fact, the kooks are so noticeable that at first glance it can look like libertarians are all kooks.

It's very noticeable to those of us who actually have a libertarian bent. A lot of people don't really understand what libertarians are about and thus it's not so obvious to them.

Actually, it's very noticeable to those who have actually have met a libertarian. That excludes many on this board.
The guy in the video typifies self-identified Libertarians I've met. Ex-Libertarian IT graduates would be a distant second. The former were exclusively in the US.

No tartan was authenticated.
 
The kooks don't blend in. They stand out. In fact, the kooks are so noticeable that at first glance it can look like libertarians are all kooks.

It's very noticeable to those of us who actually have a libertarian bent. A lot of people don't really understand what libertarians are about and thus it's not so obvious to them.

Actually, it's very noticeable to those who have actually have met a libertarian. That excludes many on this board.
The guy in the video typifies self-identified Libertarians I've met. Ex-Libertarian IT graduates would be a distant second. The former were exclusively in the US.

No tartan was authenticated.

Libertarians believe in the rule of law, they just want a system with few laws.

Bundy doesn't believe in federal law, period.
 
The kooks don't blend in. They stand out. In fact, the kooks are so noticeable that at first glance it can look like libertarians are all kooks.
It's very noticeable to those of us who actually have a libertarian bent. A lot of people don't really understand what libertarians are about and thus it's not so obvious to them.

Actually, it's very noticeable to those who have actually have met a libertarian. That excludes many on this board.
The guy in the video typifies self-identified Libertarians I've met. Ex-Libertarian IT graduates would be a distant second. The former were exclusively in the US.

No tartan was authenticated.
Libertarians believe...
In a lot of things, and it depends on who you ask.
 
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